Friendly chase with Viper at Buttonwillow 13CW

[Wendall]

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

KW Clubsport: Bump 8F/4R Compression 12F/12R
Alignment: Camber -2.5F/-2.2R Toe 0 Front, 1/16 Rear
Exhaust: Fabspeed Xpipe with Dinan muffler
Tires: Nitto NT 01 275/35/18 on Volks G2 18x10ET27 square (5mm spacer in front)
Aero: Vorsteiner Front aero spoiler
Brakes: AP Racing BBK (Front/Rear) with Cobalt Friction XR1/XR3 race pads

Still working on driver mods to get faster

Do you mean bump 8f/4r rebound 12f/12r? That would be pretty good for street. No understeer? I'm on default bump 6f/6r and rebound 6f/9r but I'm looking for suggestions to fine tune it.

[thorny]

Originally Posted by biggynuts01

Do you mean bump 8f/4r rebound 12f/12r? That would be pretty good for street. No understeer? I'm on default bump 6f/6r and rebound 6f/9r but I'm looking for suggestions to fine tune it.

+1. Bump and compression is the same thing. But it is clear that OP won't be running full soft compression on the track

I run standard settings too on track, sometimes making rebound softer on the rear axle. Interesting that OP is happy with the front being so soft on both compression and rebound.

Cool video!

[rhouck]

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

For now, to spice things up a bit, I'm driving left foot braking exclusively. I never once touched the brake pedal with my right foot on the video above.

Smart! As much as I love manuals, paddles are the future. Paddles+left foot braking is definitely faster, but it's not a skillset to be learned overnight (I am terrible at left foot braking ). It will also be useful to you even in a manual car

And nice driving! I hope you are not still actually in the point-by group though... your car control and experience is plenty good for open passing! I was half-expecting you to pass the lot of them on the inside at Riverside

[OC3]

Nice video Ti-Jean! Was hoping you'd dive-bomb them at Sunset, lulz.

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

For now, to spice things up a bit, I'm driving left foot braking exclusively. I never once touched the brake pedal with my right foot on the video above.

Originally Posted by rhouck

Smart! As much as I love manuals, paddles are the future. Paddles+left foot braking is definitely faster, but it's not a skillset to be learned overnight (I am terrible at left foot braking ). It will also be useful to you even in a manual car

Been left-foot braking for longer than I can remember on the street. So, of course I was left-foot braking when I started tracking (current DCT M3 is the first & only car I tracked), but found out pretty quickly that, without being strapped in tight, you are almost hovering if you don't brace yourself with left leg. So, switched to right-foot braking on the track. Then, found out about the belt-tensioning/cam-locking trick, and promptly went back to left-foot braking.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am on my 6th set of NT01s. When they become slick, they are about half worn. It is at that point that they start to grip better. I actually kept running a set that had started to cord on the edges and they were still running fine. I have been able to get between 6 to 12 days out of my various sets, depending on the tracks I ran.

I did 4 days on my first/current set of NT01, and they look like I have more than 1 more day on'em - so, may be 6? I'm hopeful. I do rotate them strategically, depending on whether the track on a given day is CW or CCW.

[1MOREMOD]

Nice. I've been experimenting with left foot braking and doing it only on the street for use later in a select few esses where I need to set the front a little.

[Ti-Jean]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am on my 6th set of NT01s. When they become slick, they are about half worn. It is at that point that they start to grip better. I actually kept running a set that had started to cord on the edges and they were still running fine. I have been able to get between 6 to 12 days out of my various sets, depending on the tracks I ran.

This gives me some hope... On my RS-3, when they became slick, they corded soon after.

Originally Posted by biggynuts01

Do you mean bump 8f/4r rebound 12f/12r? That would be pretty good for street. No understeer? I'm on default bump 6f/6r and rebound 6f/9r but I'm looking for suggestions to fine tune it.

Originally Posted by thorny

+1. Bump and compression is the same thing. But it is clear that OP won't be running full soft compression on the track

I run standard settings too on track, sometimes making rebound softer on the rear axle. Interesting that OP is happy with the front being so soft on both compression and rebound.

Cool video!

My bad. I meant bump 8f/4r rebound 12f/12r. I ran with KW recommended setting for 1 week-end and found that the car would understeer in slow to mid speed corner entry. I used the day of the video to setup the suspension following Koni tuning guide available here
http://www.koniracing.com/rrtuningguide.cfm

I found that increasing bump in the front makes the car understeer quickly where I could go quite a bit more stiff in the rear. Rebound setting was not as clear to me. I might try a bit stiffer rebound next time but as is (12F/12R), I was happy that day.

I think most people with KW CS run the recommended bump setting of 6F/6R but for my car, I can say for sure that 8F/4R worked a lot better and got rid of the understeer at slow to mid speed corner that day.

Originally Posted by rhouck

And nice driving! I hope you are not still actually in the point-by group though... your car control and experience is plenty good for open passing! I was half-expecting you to pass the lot of them on the inside at Riverside

Finally graduated from point-by group and quite comfortable in open passing group now. Still, I don't trust the other drivers too much so only taking passes when I know 100% it is safe.

Originally Posted by OC3

Been left-foot braking for longer than I can remember on the street. So, of course I was left-foot braking when I started tracking (current DCT M3 is the first & only car I tracked), but found out pretty quickly that, without being strapped in tight, you are almost hovering if you don't brace yourself with left leg. So, switched to right-foot braking on the track. Then, found out about the belt-tensioning/cam-locking trick, and promptly went back to left-foot braking.

I started right-foot braking but wanted to try left-foot braking just to learn it. Same as you, I found that it is harder without being strapped in tight. At first, it was bothering me but now I'm used to it. I'm only using a CG lock and that's enough. I still slide a bit but it is manageable, just have to reposition myself in the straight once in a while.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

This gives me some hope... On my RS-3, when they became slick, they corded soon after.

On the NT01, the thread blocks count fot the first 3/32" of avaiable thread depth. Once the blocks have worn away, you still have another 3/32" to go. You can even have them shaved down to 3/32" as new to get a grippier tire out of the box. See info from Nitto web site:

http://www.nittotire.com/Tire/nt01#tech

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am on my 6th set of NT01s. When they become slick, they are about half worn. It is at that point that they start to grip better. I actually kept running a set that had started to cord on the edges and they were still running fine. I have been able to get between 6 to 12 days out of my various sets, depending on the tracks I ran.

okay thats more like it. i figure 3-4 days with tread than another 3-4 without at least.

[CanAutM3]

Left foot braking is a very useful technique. It is something I used regularly on my track VW GTis, even if they were MT. I was taught the technique while doing some dirt road rallying. It brings a whole new dimension to playing with weight distribution and the tire friction circles as you can simultaneously use brake and throttle at the same time. As OC3 said, I find it more difficult to do on the M3 as I only use the standard 3 point harness. If I don't brace myself with my left leg, I tend to move around a lot. I still use it in some corners though, especially long decreasing radius turns.

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

I headed to the track (Butonwillow) recently to dial in my KW Clubsport suspension. After the suspension was all dialed in, I had a good time chasing down a black Viper. As expected, he would pull away a couple car lengths coming out of a corner into the straights but I would catch right back to him on the corners. I felt like a Miata against this HP and Torque monster (my car is stock engine wise).

Fun video to watch. Car sounds incredible, as usual for your setup. Nice calm, smooth, fast driving. Viper had a nice little drift going over the hump at around 3:11. Good job sticking with him in your 420hp, German Miata.

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

This is my first set of NT 01 and I have to say they wear quite well, very uniform across the entire width of the tire. This was day 3 for the set and I rotate them after each day (running square setup). The only issue I have with these tires is that I don't think you can get more than 4 days out of a set.

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

4 days for a set. That sucks. I'm on my first set and was thinking I would get 8 to 10 but have been told you can't overwork them or they will be junk quick. That's why I was curious cuz looked like you were pushing into some turns.

Originally Posted by yandy

The NT01s are going to be great for about 4 days. You can probably use them for maybe 5-6 days if lucky, but they will def not be the same, and you'll notice. On a lighter car, story may be different.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am on my 6th set of NT01s. When they become slick, they are about half worn. It is at that point that they start to grip better. I actually kept running a set that had started to cord on the edges and they were still running fine. I have been able to get between 6 to 12 days out of my various sets, depending on the tracks I ran.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

On the NT01, the thread blocks count fot the first 3/32" of avaiable thread depth. Once the blocks have worn away, you still have another 3/32" to go. You can even have them shaved down to 3/32" as new to get a grippier tire out of the box. See info from Nitto web site:

http://www.nittotire.com/Tire/nt01#tech

I agree w CanAutM3. I've been able to get a 10-event season out of a set of NT01s by rotating judiciously. I've done this two years in a row with two sets of NT01s. Am I driving like a little old lady from Pasadena? Maybe, but I'm consistently one of the fastest cars in Advanced Intermediate with various groups. From everything I've read, the Nittos wear like iron compared to the Hoosier R6... The Hoosiers are apparently fantastic tires, and in another class compared to the NT01s, but they wear very quickly. They become an expensive, short-lived high/addiction. That's why they're called the "purple crack."

[1MOREMOD]

had one of my nt01s delaminate across almost the entire width of the tread today. not good. glad i didnt have a gt3 moment like at daytona.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

had one of my nt01s delaminate across almost the entire width of the tread today. not good. glad i didnt have a gt3 moment like at daytona.

That happened on 2 on my set of NT01's. And, on one of my track buddy's NT01 set too.

I ran 2 more track days on the set, and so far *knock on wood*, no issues that I could tell.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by OC3

That happened on 2 on my set of NT01's. And, on one of my track buddy's NT01 set too.

I ran 2 more track days on the set, and so far *knock on wood*, no issues that I could tell.

im sending it back for a replacement if they will take it. that shouldnt happen and dont feel too safe if the tire is gonna come apart on me.

[OC3]

Not sure how bad yours look like, but this is the first one on mine (second one is slightly worse). This photo was taken after 1 track day on the tire.

.

[1MOREMOD]

worse than that i believe will have to look again.

[1MOREMOD]

http://s28.beta.photobucket.com/user...83333014469645

[OC3]

Oh yeah, the inside part looks pretty bad/deep.

[1MOREMOD]

yep a little scary after seeing that gt3 at daytona eat the wall when his tire comes apart.

[CSBM5]

I bought my fourth set of NT-01s last Fall, and the prior three sets going back to 2007 I never had any issues with; however, all four of the latest NT-01s had tread splice failure after about 12 runs at a CCA autox on the Performance Center track (perhaps a total of 15 minutes of use). They were properly heat cycled and driven prior to the track use.

You DO NOT want to drive tires with tread splices opening up like these have at high speeds especially. Contact Nitto and demand service. When I sent pictures of what happened to these tires (and after so little use), they offered to refund me and have Discount Tire send them back for analysis. I bought them in November, and I think the build week was 32.

[OC3]

Yeah, I do believe this is a problem with recently-produced batches. Anyhow, not sure which Nitto office you've been talking to, but the one here in SoCal have been very difficult to deal with (slow, near-complete lack of communications, etc, despite providing photos, proof of purchase, etc). And, after all that, the most I can expect is a store credit based on pro-rated amount of remaining tread depth. You have Nitto contact info I can try?

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by OC3

Yeah, I do believe this is a problem with recently-produced batches. Anyhow, not sure which Nitto office you've been talking to, but the one here in SoCal have been very difficult to deal with (slow, near-complete lack of communications, etc, despite providing photos, proof of purchase, etc). And, after all that, the most I can expect is a store credit based on pro-rated amount of remaining tread depth. You have Nitto contact info I can try?

I talked with Steve at Nitto and then sent him pictures and a write up of my usage at nittotech@nittotire.com. Since I only used them for 12 runs on a 1:30 course, or perhaps a bit over 15 minutes of time, there was essentially no tread wear (which I suppose helped with a simple refund of purchase price). I was contacted by him after the manager at my Discount Tire store contacted Nitto. Discount Tire is simply great to work with -- very pleased.

[OC3]

I was dealing with Steve too. But, rather than "no tread wear," I think Discount Tire being involved in your case is the key here. I bought mine thru a local tuning shop and they certainly don't have the big name nor the volume like Discount Tire has.