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02-23-2014, 12:35 PM | #1 |
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why note bore s65?
I posted a link to dinans 4.2 l bored s65 replacement engine
http://dinancars.com/product/d850-11...ries&mid=1114/ Why hasn't any builders bored s65 to 4.2-4.3 and would save a ton of parts. Simply replace with larger cylinders. Keep same crank, rods and everything. Keeps the engine over squared even more and seems to make peak power at 8300 per dinan rather than shifting curve left... I'm betting given sub par stroker cars power we have seen, a FBO 4.3 l bored s65 with nice new light pistons would easily crank out 430 -440 who and maintain peak power at top end and not suffer as badly with breathing issues of bigger 4.6 striker. . Seems like a pretty cheap, relatively speaking mod. Or is the problem coating the cylinder walls again? Id have thought cylinder spacing is too tight initially but clearly din an shows its not. Who else wants a 4 2-4.3 bored s65??? |
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02-23-2014, 12:57 PM | #2 | |
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02-23-2014, 01:00 PM | #3 |
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Why is this more costly? Why don't you contribute some helpful info on topic if you have done extensive research. Din an is doing it for a lot cheaper than their stroker so I guessyou know something sSteve din an doesn't? Or he has a much more cost effective way than whatever your plan includes
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02-23-2014, 01:04 PM | #4 | |
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I have no plan...I'm not a business. I'm just telling you facts -- that's my contribution. Take it or leave it. What more do you want than facts? Just let me know and I'll see if I can help. You are free to cost one out yourself to check my math, and then make your own determination what's cost effective and what isn't. |
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02-23-2014, 01:13 PM | #5 |
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You said you have a whole spreadsheet? Then tell us all what is so not cost effective? Requires no crank which can be 3-5 k. Requires only pistons. I asked about coating the cylinders which may or may not be a problem if you put new pistons. So what is all this complication and please post your spread sheet. Why yould make a spreadsheet on cost of boring this engine seems bizarre
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02-23-2014, 01:58 PM | #6 | |
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02-23-2014, 09:20 PM | #8 |
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If all they're doing is boring out the motor an additional .2L, it's not worth $17k. I mean, what would be your goals after boring out the motor? If you're looking to supercharge the motor, I'm gonna assume Dinan has done ZERO FI research, so there would be no warranty if the motor failed after adding a blower. IF you were looking to build an N/A track motor, you'd be better off with a true stroker (not what Dinan or RD Sport are offering), with a complete build (like VAC's) that offers Heads, Cams, Crank, Pistons, Rods, Sleeves, Different Compression Ratios, etc.
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02-23-2014, 09:29 PM | #9 |
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I think whats missing in this discussion is that the Dinan motor is warrantied. I would definitely consider this if I was in the market to replace a warn engine.
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02-23-2014, 11:08 PM | #10 | |
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I see you're a big fan of VAC and sleeving the block because I've seen you mention that a lot. Nothing wrong with that and I've sent people to VAC as well. You ding Dinan saying they probably haven't done any research and yet I'm wondering the same thing about VAC because I've never seen them publish any research articles or research results. For example, I'd like to know if they've ever cut into a head to know how far they can go porting and polishing before hitting water and oil? I'd love to see this because that's the right way to research porting and polishing. I'd also like to see their analysis of where the S65 heads are lacking and how they were improved them. And like you, I want to see the testing results as proof to back it up. I'll ask Dinan the same thing next time I'm in there. I'd also like to see what research has been on sleeving the block. I know of five sleeved block have already failed thus far on the west coast and abroad and that makes me very curious what research has been done here as well. One of them failed on the dyno right after break in. I'd like to see if they've put a strain gauge or other instruments on a sleeved block to see how much it flexes without the structural integrity of the cylinder bores. That's how you'll know if sleeving is safe. You've probably figured out that I'm not a blind believer without proof and your signature tells me you aren't either: "data and concrete proof over everything." So if there's any research you (or VAC) can share on either porting/polishing or sleeved blocks, please share it so we can all become more familiar with the research, testing, and of course the results to back it up. But back on topic. Dinan is offering a rebuilt stock engine that's been bored to higher displacement. Cost of boring is about $800-$900. Cost of pistons is about $2200. So this is nothing but building a stock motor with an extra $3k in parts. The rest of the expenses are the same as building any other S65 engine. Only you can determine if there's another $14k worth of expenses in a build like this. 93.0 mm pistons will give you 4087 cc engine. 93.5 mm pistons will give you 4131 cc engine. 94.0 mm pistons will give you 4175 cc engine. Different compression ratios are easy for any competent engine builder. I've got a spreadsheet to calculate all the dimensions of custom pistons as well. I've posted the formulas to calculate compression ratio before. It's not that much more difficult to take those same formulas and apply one or two other pieces of data to design your own custom pistons. So these things may sound difficult, but they really aren't that difficult if you know how to do it. |
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02-24-2014, 12:13 AM | #11 | |
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02-24-2014, 01:13 AM | #12 | |
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02-24-2014, 09:16 AM | #13 | |
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Check with your favorite BMW shop on the cost of labor. I know one very experienced S65 shop that will build this engine for $2k labor costs. |
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02-25-2014, 12:46 PM | #14 |
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So you have a spread sheet for the fact you replace pistons for 2200 not sure spread needed.
What about the coating on cylinders that is lost? The low friction OEM coating? What is the option if you bore out engine ? |
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02-25-2014, 12:53 PM | #15 | |
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02-25-2014, 02:58 PM | #16 | |
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Alucil isn't a coating, and it doesn't need to be reapplied when you bore/hone. I gave you that hint when I gave you a price for bore/honing and didn't mention anything about extra expenses for coatings. I order all my pistons from the same people BMW uses to make the OE pistons. If you tell them you're working with an Alucil block, they will give you the proper coating and proper rings. By now, I've given you all the prices. If you add them all up, you will realize you can build the same motor with the same parts for $10k or less -- and that's even using Dinan as the machine shop to bore/hone the block. So do you still think $17k is a bargain when you can do it for $10k? |
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02-25-2014, 03:55 PM | #17 |
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Wow you really spend too much time with yourposts and manipulation. If you have a contribution post it. I ask cause iI font know. If you don't answer its OK.. plenty others to answer things. Lighten up
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02-25-2014, 04:38 PM | #18 |
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02-25-2014, 10:20 PM | #19 |
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I started by telling you that $17k was way too much for a bored stock motor, and I ended by telling you the same thing. You could have saved yourself all the trouble if you took me at my word. If there were plenty of others willing to help you, I didn't see them running here to help you with answers. So in spite of all your insulting comments, I was still the only person who would answer you. I wish you the best of luck getting those plenty of others to help you next time you need it.
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02-25-2014, 11:16 PM | #20 | |
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I don't know if you are not comfortable communicating in English or if you are just careless but you come across as hostile and very, very difficult to understand. Pat |
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02-25-2014, 11:30 PM | #21 | |
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The thought of a reconditioned motor and a supercharger (or twin turbo) might be enough to stave off my lust for the F80 M3. Last edited by Hujan; 02-25-2014 at 11:36 PM.. |
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02-25-2014, 11:34 PM | #22 | |
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