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02-05-2013, 07:13 PM | #23 | |
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I don't know any pro racers...but I've never met any BMW CCA coach that blew off learning to heel toe. In fact, it's criteria for being a CCA instructor. It was nice chatting with you about this.
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02-05-2013, 07:15 PM | #24 | |
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Edit: I guess I understood where you were going and I assumed you meant "get almost all your braking done before trying to downshift"... Last edited by CanAutM3; 02-06-2013 at 06:16 AM.. |
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02-05-2013, 07:30 PM | #25 |
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if you trailbrake you cant get your braking done before the shift? I developed some trail braking on my own as i advanced even though i didnt know what it was called. seems logical for me when learning to intermingle throttle and steering inputs on exit, unwinding the wheel and applying throttle. seems much less natural for me to release the brake slowly as im turning in, because like most of us i was taught to get all my braking done in a straight line. it however isnt the fastest or best was to maximize your lap times or traction available.
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02-06-2013, 05:36 AM | #26 | |
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I agree, it is also how I see it. I will carry some braking past turn-in in most corners, which is by definition trail braking. In my opinion, the downshifting should occur as late as possible in the braking zone, ideally before the turn-in, but still within the braking zone. With some very fast cars or in very specific turns, sometimes a downshift needs to happen past turn-in (just watch some F1 vids), but it is rather rare. As Car54, I see a lot of students that try to hurry the downshift as soon as they hit the brake pedal. By being patient and doing it later in the braking zone, the speed is slower, so you need much less of a rev increase to match the revs. Less of a blip required, less chances to money shift, less chances to upset the chassis and if the chassis gets unbalanced it is at a lower speed. Last edited by CanAutM3; 02-06-2013 at 10:22 AM.. |
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02-06-2013, 08:06 AM | #27 |
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I wouldn't want to be heel-toeing and trail-braking at the same time...you fuck up the clutch release (under or over revving) and you'll be getting a front row seat to the car behind you swerving to avoid you!
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02-06-2013, 09:54 AM | #28 |
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Trailclutching...I've heard of this technique being used at Oak Tree.
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02-06-2013, 10:32 AM | #30 |
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Horribly...and I have film to prove it!
I like to do Turn 1 slowly so I can use the GPS to help me find my way out of the turn when I get lost in the middle! I only get up to 120-130/4th on the front straight, so after braking and a heel-toe down shift to 3rd in a straight line and trail-braking into the apex. If you are at the limit of traction in a turn, or close to it, any braking or accelerating of the rear wheels by innaccurate rev-matching could easily cause the tires to break loose and start sliding. This is why DCT is cheating!
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02-06-2013, 10:56 AM | #31 | |||
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02-06-2013, 02:55 PM | #32 | |
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I would downshift early in the brake zone as an intermediate driver. As I built speed this became an issue because I would be on the verge of overrevving the car...I think I did once. Waiting later gives you a little more headroom.
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02-06-2013, 04:22 PM | #33 |
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You got one? I was too late. I did snag this one:
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02-06-2013, 09:51 PM | #34 | ||
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I started to get better at it toward the end of last season but it takes a lot of seat time to get right. My new car has DCT so I will be cheating this season. |
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02-06-2013, 10:40 PM | #35 | |
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02-06-2013, 11:19 PM | #36 |
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I have more problems with DCT.
First, its sometimes hard to tell what gear you are going into. For me, gear selection is a much more conscious effort with the DCT. Then the car is so quiet its hard to hear when you are banging against the redline until it dies out. Then there just a lot more shifting. So a manual maybe physically challenging...I'll take that over diverting mental capacity and my eyes to gear shifts. It takes me an entire day to really get into the rhythm and gear shifts consistent with the DCT. Takes me one session with a 6sp.
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02-07-2013, 12:15 AM | #37 |
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02-07-2013, 07:55 AM | #38 | |
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02-07-2013, 08:05 AM | #39 | |
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02-07-2013, 09:18 AM | #40 |
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Von zoom wil testify I had a lot of trouble maintaining constant brake pressure when blipping the throttle, which caused the front end to bobble and upset the car. As soon as I focused on improving that...life, Turn 1's and trail braking became a little easier. If you are pressing hard on the brake, it is easier to keep an even pressure.
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02-07-2013, 10:45 AM | #41 | |
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02-07-2013, 10:47 AM | #42 | |
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02-07-2013, 10:56 AM | #43 | |
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With the DCT I don't think "which gear" and only think "next gear". I'm either going up or going down, keeping the RPM up over 3,000 and grabbing the "next gear" when revs dictate. Dave
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02-07-2013, 03:58 PM | #44 |
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With the DCT, can you leave it in auto mode and will it downshift to the lowest possible gear as you slow the car?
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