Nissan GT-R might not be as under-rated as we all had suspected:

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by swamp2
As far as the N'Ring goes AWD is one of many factors others, many of which are almost for sure more significant than AWD are:

-Tires likely as sticky as MPSC
-Ace driver
-Nissans specific AWD ATTESA-ETS system
-Dual clutch transmission

any more on the GTR tires. listed as Dunlop sport SP 600 - couldnt find anything on these tires even on google?

[footie]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I agree with most of this EXCEPT the point about drivers and times. You are wrong about this. Sportauto with Horst at the wheel has become a sort of de facto N'Ring time that is accepted by the manufacturers themselves. For better or worse it is a standard. Recall his time was 7:50 in the GT-R. Again it is only fair to note that the track had some wet spots during this run.

Call me big headed if you like but I don't call Horst an amazing driver, sure he's good and I would say better than myself but compared to most of the test drivers working for their respective brands Horst is average at best.

I remember reading that one of the Audi racing drivers got the RS4 around the ring in 7:56~8 which at worst case means 11 seconds. Imagine how big of a gap that would be in distance.

Maybe his skills are better honed to rwd chassis which would explain why has BMW times are usually quite decent.

[footie]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

any more on the GTR tires. listed as Dunlop sport SP 600 - couldnt find anything on these tires even on google?

I personally wouldn't rate Dunlops, maybe these are better than the ones I has tired in the past. I would have thought they would be using something like Bridgestone or yokohama.

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by footie

I personally wouldn't rate Dunlops, maybe these are better than the ones I has tired in the past. I would have thought they would be using something like Bridgestone or yokohama.

agree for the most part. but these could be some special secret super-sticky?

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

any more on the GTR tires. listed as Dunlop sport SP 600 - couldnt find anything on these tires even on google?

No. They are 20" Bridgestone Potenza RE070R RFT that have been specifically tuned for the GT-R.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by footie

Call me big headed if you like but I don't call Horst an amazing driver, sure he's good and I would say better than myself but compared to most of the test drivers working for their respective brands Horst is average at best.

I never said he was an amazing driver. I never even called him good, although he is clearly good. All I said was that he represents an important and long standing standard.

[jaiman]

Originally Posted by swamp2

No. They are 20" Bridgestone Potenza RE070R RFT that have been specifically tuned for the GT-R.

There are actually 2 tires available (3 if you count the snow tires), the Dunlops come on the base model, the premium gets the Bridgestones.

[footie]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I never said he was an amazing driver. I never even called him good, although he is clearly good. All I said was that he represents an important and long standing standard.

So where will you look to when old Horst is gone, after all he isn't getting any younger you know.

[Sedan_Clan]

Interesting thread fellas. I can't wait to come across one of these on the street.

[sayemthree]

the GTR tested in RandT that beat the Turbo around BW had the Dunlops.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by footie

Call me big headed if you like but I don't call Horst an amazing driver, sure he's good and I would say better than myself but compared to most of the test drivers working for their respective brands Horst is average at best.

I remember reading that one of the Audi racing drivers got the RS4 around the ring in 7:56~8 which at worst case means 11 seconds. Imagine how big of a gap that would be in distance.

Maybe his skills are better honed to rwd chassis which would explain why has BMW times are usually quite decent.

Although the times he puts up are always off, I doubt that casts his skills in any kind of light. You have to consider his job, which as far as I know is to run these cars around the 'Ring in journeyman fashion, roughly equivalent to a skilled but non-professional driver. In other words, no heroism allowed. The fact that he probably knows the course as well as anyone helps him get reasonable times in spite of nine-tenths driving.

You know those pictures you see about how guys at the 'Ring are getting Cessna licenses, four wheels in the air and all crossed up with nowhere obvious to go? Well, chances are that unless he's having a very off day, you'll never get one of those shots with our steady guy Horst behind the wheel.

Bruce

Edit: PS - Those Vette pictures absolutely scared me.

[sayemthree]

whether he is the best driver or not is not as important as how consitant he is, if we are comparing cars he has tested.

[footie]

Does anyone know what the GTR is doing the 0-100mph time in?

I see the big RS6 Avant has posted it's second official sub 9 second time for the same discipline.

Here's what Gustav posted on M5Board.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW Alpina B5S Touring vs Audi RS6 Avant:

B5S RS6

€97 900 €106 900

Round 1 "Karroserie" : Larger luggage capacity and space for passengers gives victory to the Audu RS6

Round 2: "Fahrkomfort": The nicer "dialled in" have more comfort.The Alpina B5 is also equipped wtih comfort seats whic hare alot more comfortable than the sport seats of the RS6.

Round 3: Motor / Getriebe: Win for the Alpina B5S. More cultivated and less loud than the bi-turbo V10 of the RS6. Also with a top speed of 313 km/h it's alot mroe than the Ingolstädter. For €1600 a 280 km/h option is available.

Round 4: Fahrdynamilk: With firstclass brakes the Audi RS6 sets a benchmark.

Round 5: Umwelt / Kosten: The smaller costs has the Alpina B5S: cheaper to buy as new, better exhaust values and lower insurance. €60 000 in loss the first four years.

SUMMARY: When sumamrized the points, the Alpina B5S Touring is clearly in front. It is a very solid car but neverthelss a very primitive; like a ironfist in a velvetglove. The Audi RS6 is the more active driving car and when you want to, more sportier. But when comfort and top speed it cannot keep pace with the Alpina.

They are both full family and everyday cars despite driving capabilities of Lamborghini-level.

B5S Touring RS6 Avant

0-60 km/h 2,3 s 2,0 s
0-100 km/h 4,4 s 4,2 s
0-140 km/h 7,2 s 7,2 s
0-160 km/h 9,2 s 8,8 s
0-180 km/h 11,3 s 10,1 s
0-200 km/h 13,9 s 13,5 s

Top speed: 313 km/h 250 / 280 km/h
Handling: 1,51:7 min 1,48,5 min
Slalom pylondistance 18 m 61,1 km/h 63,6 km/h
Braking cold: 36,7 36,5
Braking warm: 34,2 33 ,9

Test consump: 1,62 l/ 10 km 1, 73 / 10 km

CO2: 296 g/ km 333 g/km

TOTAL POINTS: 3143 3095 of 5000