BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
Alpine HID
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-25-2010, 02:58 PM   #155
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3 SQ5
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,601
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanoale View Post
Kumho V710 285-30-18 on TR1 18x10 all around w 15mm rear spacers. great stick, bye bye understeer (you got to be careful on track, perfect for autoX as the car rotates more easily)

Kumho have same stick as A6s (99% of it) and they last way longer!
Had Khumo's in the past but had big problems with tread cracks all the way across the face.Ok for autocross but not for a high speed road course.great grip though and handled abuse quite well!
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2010, 07:24 PM   #156
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Had Khumo's in the past but had big problems with tread cracks all the way across the face.Ok for autocross but not for a high speed road course.great grip though and handled abuse quite well!
Gearhead, are you referring to V710s or V700s?
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2010, 08:42 PM   #157
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3 SQ5
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,601
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Gearhead, are you referring to V710s or V700s?
Victoracers
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2010, 08:46 PM   #158
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

OK. I corded a set of V710s I got used from a friend last weekend on the E30. They were of course slippery, but wore out without issues.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-31-2010, 12:32 PM   #159
bfetch
New Member
 
Drives: 2009 IB M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NJ

Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)

888s practically REQUIRE shaving & heat cycling before hard use

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCAForums.com View Post
I don't think they make RA-1's in our size (haven't checked) but if they do... it's much better than the 888's... They are actually in the process of bringing RA-1's back into production, as so many of the amateur racers (Spec Miata etc...) have all complained as well.

If you've already spent the money on the Triple 8's... I can at least share with you... most have mentioned they actually like 'more' Air Pressure than the RA-1's did.

I don't know what baseline you may have had with another race tire... But hope this helps.

IMO... Hoosier Road Race Tire is a good Compromise, or Kumho V710... (Again... Kumho sizes may not be as wide a variety).

Good luck,

Dave
Dave (and anyone else running 888s),
As you note, they're bringing back the RA-1s but for what (I think) is the wrong reason. The 888s do not last nearly as long as the RA-1s did plus they're a bit more sensitive to being shaved and heat cycled properly before use.

Granted, this is coming from a Spec Miata racer (gotta love 2400# w/driver ) and not the one who drives the M on track (that's the wife's job - see, I get to race a Miata ) but I learned a lot about reading the 888s and how they wear.

A vast majority of the guys complaining about them were pointing to a longevity issue (they do have a shorter life than the RA-1s which I think made people expect the same from the 888s) and significant tearing even when shaved (2/32 for the "fast" guys).

Proper care & feeding needs to start before they're put on the car & goes a long way towards decent life.

Best suggestion I can make for a new set would be the following:
Shave to 4/32 (on a heavy car you wouldn't want the super-tall tread blocks - too easy to shear/tear)
Do an easy 20 minute session on-track (maybe 7/10ths?)
Swap them for another set and don't touch until day 2

Day 2 comes around (shave, heat-cycle, 24 hour "cure") and you should have a fine set of track tires.

Anyway - have fun out there and be safe!
Brandon
bfetch is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2010, 10:43 AM   #160
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3 SQ5
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,601
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfetch View Post
Dave (and anyone else running 888s),
As you note, they're bringing back the RA-1s but for what (I think) is the wrong reason. The 888s do not last nearly as long as the RA-1s did plus they're a bit more sensitive to being shaved and heat cycled properly before use.

Granted, this is coming from a Spec Miata racer (gotta love 2400# w/driver ) and not the one who drives the M on track (that's the wife's job - see, I get to race a Miata ) but I learned a lot about reading the 888s and how they wear.

A vast majority of the guys complaining about them were pointing to a longevity issue (they do have a shorter life than the RA-1s which I think made people expect the same from the 888s) and significant tearing even when shaved (2/32 for the "fast" guys).

Proper care & feeding needs to start before they're put on the car & goes a long way towards decent life.

Best suggestion I can make for a new set would be the following:
Shave to 4/32 (on a heavy car you wouldn't want the super-tall tread blocks - too easy to shear/tear)
Do an easy 20 minute session on-track (maybe 7/10ths?)
Swap them for another set and don't touch until day 2

Day 2 comes around (shave, heat-cycle, 24 hour "cure") and you should have a fine set of track tires.

Anyway - have fun out there and be safe!
Brandon
I heat cycled both my sets of 888's and they still sucked.I have never heat cycled my RA1's and always have started their life at full tread depth and have never chunked and last 200-300% longer than the 888's!888 were a big step backwards for Toyo!
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2010, 10:57 AM   #161
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3 SQ5
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,601
iTrader: (0)

After 3 days on my Nitto NT05's,I have say I am fairly happy with them.They are wearing reasonably well with good feedback and falloff fairly slowly and are noisy as hell at the limit so they are easy to drive on.They do not have the grip of a Hoosier or RA1 but they are fairly cheap so they are a good choice for lapping.
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2010, 11:28 AM   #162
bfetch
New Member
 
Drives: 2009 IB M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NJ

Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I heat cycled both my sets of 888's and they still sucked.I have never heat cycled my RA1's and always have started their life at full tread depth and have never chunked and last 200-300% longer than the 888's!888 were a big step backwards for Toyo!
Not to pick nits or anything, I didn't say chunked but shear/shred of the tread blocks on the 888s.

The 888s would appear to have a soft compound compared to the RA1s but perhaps there's something about driving style when comparing how to hustle a Miata vs. the M3. I know you pretty-much have to have a fairly high, we'll call it "rotational velocity" , in the Miata to get a fast lap which would put higher lateral loads on the blocks vs. a less sliding approach in the M.

*shrug*

To each their own I guess but I wouldn't feel comfortable with the M on full-tread RA1s. They're good in the rain on the Miata but I could see them not feeling 100% planted (block squirm) when used on the M.

Back to the subject of this sticky thread though:
We're not running R-comps (yet) but did upgrade to RE-11s. Those have been good so far but I think I need to play with the front pressures some more as there was a bit of roll-over from 2 days at the Glen.

These are stock sized 19" replacements too BTW...no 18s here.

L8R,
Brandon
bfetch is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2010, 11:35 AM   #163
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3 SQ5
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,601
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfetch View Post
Not to pick nits or anything, I didn't say chunked but shear/shred of the tread blocks on the 888s.

The 888s would appear to have a soft compound compared to the RA1s but perhaps there's something about driving style when comparing how to hustle a Miata vs. the M3. I know you pretty-much have to have a fairly high, we'll call it "rotational velocity" , in the Miata to get a fast lap which would put higher lateral loads on the blocks vs. a less sliding approach in the M.

*shrug*

To each their own I guess but I wouldn't feel comfortable with the M on full-tread RA1s. They're good in the rain on the Miata but I could see them not feeling 100% planted (block squirm) when used on the M.

Back to the subject of this sticky thread though:
We're not running R-comps (yet) but did upgrade to RE-11s. Those have been good so far but I think I need to play with the front pressures some more as there was a bit of roll-over from 2 days at the Glen.

These are stock sized 19" replacements too BTW...no 18s here.

L8R,
Brandon
I understood the R888's were the same compound as an RA1 but with a different construction.

I am trying to wean myself of R compounds to try to reduce my tire costs,but I do have 8 Continential Series slicks with one heat cycle to burn through before needing more tires for lapping.So far the NT05's look like a good choice for my somewhat aggresive style

Last edited by Gearhead999s; 09-01-2010 at 02:41 PM.
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2010, 07:42 PM   #164
Bubbles
Green Bastard
 
Bubbles's Avatar
 
Drives: ZCP-Powered
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bishop Bend

Posts: 3,542
iTrader: (3)

NT01s are the best compromise r comp tire out there, imo.
__________________
Bubbles is offline   Cayman Islands
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2010, 10:07 PM   #165
drivendriver
Second Lieutenant
 
drivendriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E83 X3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I understood the R888's were the same compound as an RA1 but with a different construction.

I am trying to wean myself of R compounds to try to reduce my tire costs,but I do have 8 Continential Series slicks with one heat cycle to burn through before needing more tires for lapping.So far the NT05's look like a good choice for my somewhat aggresive style
I've used a set R888's (255F/275R) for one event. I'm quite happy with these tires. I'll use them again this week-end.. They're not the faster tires out there, but they have noticeably more grip than even the RE11's, they seem to handle heat very well (although I have yet to drive them on a very hot day), and they squeal less. In the rain, they're just OK. But, altogether, at $800 for 4 tires, I think they're a pretty good deal.

BTW, there are two versions of the R888: one with reinforced sidewalls (that's what I have), and one without.
__________________
drivendriver is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2010, 05:13 PM   #166
JC919
Lieutenant Colonel
 
JC919's Avatar
 
Drives: CSL
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Posts: 1,788
iTrader: (0)

rldzhao, have you mounted the cups yet? I think I may go with a set of these next since NT01s are back ordered all over the country. I was set on Hoosier R6s for a while, but I like having the ability to just leave the track wheel/tire combo on the car and use my other car when its raining heavily. I'm thinking 265 (F w/18x9.5) and 285 (R w/18x10).

Would love to keep 275s up front, but its hard to find a DOT tire in both 275 and 285. If anyone has any suggestions on some tires that fit these sizes, please let me knows.

Question, would I have any problems running a set of new 285 Cups rear and used, but not completely done sets of 275 NT01s up front? My rears are damn near cooked and I fear I'll need some new ones before my next track day.
__________________


2003 CSL, SG and Michelin PSS
2008 AW/Blk 6MT, Akrapovic Evolution, Evosport Pulley, ESS Tune, Michelin PSS/Hoosier, other track stuff SOLD

Last edited by JC919; 09-05-2010 at 05:18 PM.
JC919 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2010, 09:25 PM   #167
drivendriver
Second Lieutenant
 
drivendriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E83 X3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivendriver View Post
I've used a set R888's (255F/275R) for one event. I'm quite happy with these tires. I'll use them again this week-end.. They're not the faster tires out there, but they have noticeably more grip than even the RE11's, they seem to handle heat very well (although I have yet to drive them on a very hot day), and they squeal less. In the rain, they're just OK. But, altogether, at $800 for 4 tires, I think they're a pretty good deal.

BTW, there are two versions of the R888: one with reinforced sidewalls (that's what I have), and one without.
Well, I used my R888's again this week-end at VIR. Friday and Saturday were very hot (95+). The tires worked very well early in the sessions, but overheated and became greasy towards the end. I started the first session Friday morning at 30 psi in the front and 32 psi in the back (which is what I use with PS2's and RE-11's). When I came back to the paddock, they were over 40 in the front, and over 45 in the rear. I lowered cold pressures to 26/28 later in the day, but it didn't completely solve the problem. Today was cooler and better.

Having said that, the overheating was manageable and I haven't experienced any abnormal wear issue. I think the tires have at least two more events in them.
__________________
drivendriver is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2010, 10:15 PM   #168
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,599
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivendriver View Post
Well, I used my R888's again this week-end at VIR. Friday and Saturday were very hot (95+). The tires worked very well early in the sessions, but overheated and became greasy towards the end. I started the first session Friday morning at 30 psi in the front and 32 psi in the back (which is what I use with PS2's and RE-11's). When I came back to the paddock, they were over 40 in the front, and over 45 in the rear. I lowered cold pressures to 26/28 later in the day, but it didn't completely solve the problem. Today was cooler and better.

Having said that, the overheating was manageable and I haven't experienced any abnormal wear issue. I think the tires have at least two more events in them.
I had the same issue with my rears heating up really quickly at Road Atlanta a few weeks ago, it was also 95+. Got up to 45psi and the rear was very loose. I ran them 38psi hot, but had trouble really finding the sweet spot.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2010, 11:42 PM   #169
rzm3
Moderator
 
rzm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,585
iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
rldzhao, have you mounted the cups yet? I think I may go with a set of these next since NT01s are back ordered all over the country. I was set on Hoosier R6s for a while, but I like having the ability to just leave the track wheel/tire combo on the car and use my other car when its raining heavily. I'm thinking 265 (F w/18x9.5) and 285 (R w/18x10).

Would love to keep 275s up front, but its hard to find a DOT tire in both 275 and 285. If anyone has any suggestions on some tires that fit these sizes, please let me knows.

Question, would I have any problems running a set of new 285 Cups rear and used, but not completely done sets of 275 NT01s up front? My rears are damn near cooked and I fear I'll need some new ones before my next track day.
I would probably use the same brand/model of tires all around, just to keep down the number of variables you have to play with on the track, if you want to fine tune the balance of the car.

I am still trying to use up my AD08. They seem to last forever... 5 track days so far and not even half worn.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
rzm3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-11-2010, 04:08 PM   #170
dawgdog
Colonel
 
dawgdog's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 e92 M3 dct
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, Wa.

Posts: 2,076
iTrader: (0)

I have used my R888s for 4 lapping day events now and so far so good. My last tire was Kumho Ecsta XS and the 888s are so much better. This is the first R compound tire for me and I'm pleased so far. Probably will try NT01s for my next set.
__________________
AW on Fox Red Extended, Alum trim, ZPP, ZTP, DCT, 19" wheels, Heated front seats, HD radio, Sat radio, I-pod & usb, Premium sound, AP racing BBK, 18 Volk Racing TE 37s, Akrapovic Evolution exhaust, AST suspension
dawgdog is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-11-2010, 10:05 PM   #171
2000gsr
First Lieutenant
 
2000gsr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 360
iTrader: (0)

Do you guys think there will be a significant difference from ad08 vs 888 on the track? I know r compounds are way better than the stock ps2 but against a really good extreme performance summer tire like ad08??
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=44350&dateline=125013  4806
2000gsr is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-12-2010, 11:11 PM   #172
dawgdog
Colonel
 
dawgdog's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 e92 M3 dct
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, Wa.

Posts: 2,076
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000gsr View Post
Do you guys think there will be a significant difference from ad08 vs 888 on the track? I know r compounds are way better than the stock ps2 but against a really good extreme performance summer tire like ad08??
Yes
__________________
AW on Fox Red Extended, Alum trim, ZPP, ZTP, DCT, 19" wheels, Heated front seats, HD radio, Sat radio, I-pod & usb, Premium sound, AP racing BBK, 18 Volk Racing TE 37s, Akrapovic Evolution exhaust, AST suspension
dawgdog is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:06 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST