For those of us who dont want ZTP, please help!

[alpineweissM3]

Originally Posted by lucid

I don't need pricing to know that I dislike the look of the navigation hump, and that I will never ever use navigation in Boston.

Agreed; the hump does look terrible. Not to mention the fact that I simply do not need all the extra stuff that comes with the NAV / I / M Drive package. I'm glad I'm not paying for it with the "standard" package.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

You guys pay ALOT more because you get a smaller percentage of the M3s that are produced, and that also affords you the right to personalize your car more to your liking than we can here. We dont have nearly as many options available to us in The USA, and we will never be able to take advantage of BMW Individual either

I live in Boston, so I am a part of the "we" in your post. M3 sales will be split 50/50 US vs. the rest of the world, so not sure what you mean with regards to volume. Since they can do it for Germans, the M3 manufacturing line must be able handle the customized production variables. It is true that there would be an incremental cost associated with allowing US customers to customize as well, but it would be small, and I'd be willing to pay for it, and I suspect so would many others. The option packages have to do with how the majority of the US consumers purchase cars--what kind of a decision process they go though.

[alpineweissM3]

Originally Posted by Davo2003

I'm an enthusiast, but also a realist. For 2009 or 2010 MY the M3 will get more ponies by way of turbocharging or a V10 (if it fits).

Turbocharging - doubtful. The M division has made it clear that they do not believe in FI. Although, that was BMW's corporate stance for quite some time.

V10 - Will NEVER happen.

[lvwirelessguy]

The USA gets alot more M3's than Germany.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

The USA gets alot more M3's than Germany.

Germany is not the only country with many options choices. I don't know the exact distribution, but we know for a fact that other European countries have access to a long list of options as well. This would be interesting to find out...If I remember correctly ~25% of the production will be sold in Germany. South, is that correct?

[kishg]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

Get over it, BMW is not FORCING you to do anything. If you want the M3 thats how it comes, take it or leave it.

we all know it's take it or leave it but that doesn't mean we can't complain about it. I think the way they bundled these options doesnt make much sense. Looks like if i order this car with the options i want, then it's pretty much going to have to be ZPP, ZTP, Sat radio, Ipod adapter, and maybe premium sound (might as well since to get premium sound you either need to order standalone nav or ztp which comes with nav). So now we have an ordering guide, how about some price info? Spoke to my dealer today and she said orders would be placed in jan and cars would roll off lots in feb/march.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by lucid

Germany is not the only country with many options choices. I don't know the exact distribution, but we know for a fact that other European countries have access to a long list of options as well. This would be interesting to find out...If I remember correctly ~25% of the production will be sold in Germany. South, is that correct?

For the E46 M3 total production coupe+conv. was:

EU LHD: 20860
EU RHD: 19744
NA: 43779
Total :84383 (CSL not included)

Since most NA cars went to the US but EU except UK is almost exclusively RHD I would say it is a good estimate that the E92 M3 volume in Germany will be about 25% of the US volume but more like 10% of the total volume. In other words assume Germany got a bit over 50% of the total EU volume. This is probably a reasonable to upper limit.

[remmib]

Originally Posted by ilron

Just my .02 kr.

LOL @ kr. HEHE når eg såg kr lo eg godt

[aequitas330]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

Gotta love how they spin things

[GregMM]

[QUOTE=Davo2003;1581287]I'm an enthusiast, but also a realist. For 2009 or 2010 MY the M3 will get more ponies by way of turbocharging or a V10 (if it fits). QUOTE]

A realist and prophet: BMW has never up-rated an engine in an M car in the middle of a MY before. What makes you think they would do it with the E92?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by GregMM

A realist and prophet: BMW has never up-rated an engine in an M car in the middle of a MY before. What makes you think they would do it with the E92?

Hmmmm...BMW has increased displacement twice before for the M3 within the same model/platform.

[GregMM]

Originally Posted by lucid

Hmmmm...BMW has increased displacement twice before for the M3 within the same model/platform.

well...if you're talking about the E36 and the euro spec difference that's not quite the same. Which model and platform are you thinking of?

[danielbreese]

Guys,

Thanks for the replies and thank you

ilron and mkoesel for going into the specifics of the feeling of the different settings.

Just thinking out loud: In order to buy an M3 without ZTP, the car should have:

1 the steering set at the heaviest setting-- an unknown right now
2 The non EDC set at sport (or maybe normal)-- an unknown right now
3 The DSC when ON should be NO more intrusive than the E46 M3 DSC-- ILRON- Is that your impression?
4 The "sport" setting on the throttle should be at least as quick as the E46. I really like the hair trigger response of my E46 and I wonder if I will be missing something without the Sport plus-- ILRON?

I really dont to buy the "stripper" M3 only to find out later that I didnt go the extra yard to get the sportiest version. So unless all the above are true, I may have to suck it up and get ZTP.

Thanks,

Dan

[GregMM]

Originally Posted by lucid

Hmmmm...BMW has increased displacement twice before for the M3 within the same model/platform.

Ok...should not have said "never" They did it with the E36 but they added some new tech and increased displacement a little to get the E36 to 321hp. Not quite like adding 2 more cylinders though, or a turbo or many of the other things hoped for.

I stand corrected though

[Smoltz]

Originally Posted by lucid

What are you talking about exactly? That's not how it comes in Germany. Why should it come that way in the US? Have you seen the German options list? Because of people like you who are willing to take anything BMW decides to push our way, the US market has become what it is, and we are forced to make choices that don't make sense. I guess it is not BMW's fault actually; US consumers do not seem to have the patience or whatever it takes to go through an options list and decide for themselves, or they have the tendency to puchase cars off the lot or something like that...

If I read correctly, you are implying that MDrive is available without iDrive in Germany. That is not the case.

Go to the bmw.de configurator and try it for yourself. You will see that selecting M Drive Requires Addition of "Business Navigation System"

-Adam

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by danielbreese

Guys,

Thanks for the replies and thank you

ilron and mkoesel for going into the specifics of the feeling of the different settings.

Just thinking out loud: In order to buy an M3 without ZTP, the car should have:

1 the steering set at the heaviest setting-- an unknown right now
2 The non EDC set at sport (or maybe normal)-- an unknown right now
3 The DSC when ON should be NO more intrusive than the E46 M3 DSC-- ILRON- Is that your impression?
4 The "sport" setting on the throttle should be at least as quick as the E46. I really like the hair trigger response of my E46 and I wonder if I will be missing something without the Sport plus-- ILRON?

I really dont to buy the "stripper" M3 only to find out later that I didnt go the extra yard to get the sportiest version. So unless all the above are true, I may have to suck it up and get ZTP.

Thanks,

Dan

1&4: TBD only in a comparison directly between two differently equipped cars will we have an answer.
2. Non EDC cars have no equivalent to EDC (active vs. passive systems) except that EDC in sport mode should be able to be duplicated with a non EDC system because it's normal active control (in comfort and normal modes) is entirely disabled (i.e. changed from active to passive) when set in sport mode. I think we have heard that the suspension in non EDC equipped cars is not nearly as harsh as is it in sport mode in EDC equipped cars.
3. DSC on but not in M Dynamic Mode will probably be quite similar to "DSC on" in the E46 M3. But MDM will have little similarity to "DSC on" in the E46 M3. This has been discussed in video reviews. MDM really lets you drive hard, accelerate hard and drift a small bit in corners - all allowing significant wheel slip. The E46 M3 with DSC on was much more restrictive and intrusive.

[enigma]

Originally Posted by danielbreese

4 The "sport" setting on the throttle should be at least as quick as the E46. I really like the hair trigger response of my E46 and I wonder if I will be missing something without the Sport plus-- ILRON?

Well I for one hate, hate, hate sport mode on my E46. When you are trying to drive fast the last thing you want is a throttle thats practically an on/off switch.

Sure, I guess if you only drive on the street and want to think your car is faster than it is it might makes some sense. But if you actually want to go fast, its useless.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GregMM

Ok...should not have said "never" They did it with the E36 but they added some new tech and increased displacement a little to get the E36 to 321hp. Not quite like adding 2 more cylinders though, or a turbo or many of the other things hoped for.

I stand corrected though

I don't recall if that E36 was available in the U.S.

[enigma]

Originally Posted by swamp2

For example why pay thousands for Nav when PocketPC Nav systems are better than in dash systems? I really enjoy the same Nav interface when traveling and renting cars as when in my own car. What a waste I will be forced into...

Its probably as simple as the systems are manufactured as one unit. Its really not worth getting upset over. Is it seperate in other countries?

I have the built in nav in my old car and happen to like the integration. To each is own. However, BMW is in business to make money. They are not out to hurt customers any more than Porsche, or any other car company. They want to produce a product and then sell it for as much as they can. That simple.

[enigma]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't recall if that E36 was available in the U.S.

It was not. The US did not get a mid life HP upgrade.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by enigma

Its probably as simple as the systems are manufactured as one unit. Its really not worth getting upset over. Is it seperate in other countries?

I have the built in nav in my old car and happen to like the integration. To each is own. However, BMW is in business to make money. They are not out to hurt customers any more than Porsche, or any other car company. They want to produce a product and then sell it for as much as they can. That simple.

Agreed! I like the integration as well.

Originally Posted by enigma

It was not. The US did not get a mid life HP upgrade.

I didn't think so.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't recall if that E36 was available in the U.S.

It wasn't.

Edit: didn't see this was already answered.