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[jml]

After 200 miles my opinion is that they are the worst tire I've ever had on a car, well maybe not as bad as the Kumho MX. The cold & wet traction here in Austin is scary bad. Responsiveness is a step down. Overall a terrible choice for an M3 and I've canceled my subscription to C&D - that tire shoot out was clearly rigged.

[King Tut]

I have the completely opposite opinion. They seem to do everything better than the PS2s did once I put a few miles on them. I did change sizes, however. You make it sound like Car and Driver's article was an opinion article. It was mostly based on hard data. I guess you could blame the driver in the test though. If you are worried about cold and wet performance you should have went all season tire anyways instead of a performance summer tire.

[isugoo]

Interesting to see other owners opinions. I was highly considering this tire next spring..

[Bluechipper]

Originally Posted by ButterzM

I have the same feedback as King Tut. The Hankooks were solid after a few hundred miles and did feel better then my PS2s.

Also, very pleased with them so far.

Originally Posted by King Tut

I have the completely opposite opinion. They seem to do everything better than the PS2s did once I put a few miles on them. I did change sizes, however. You make it sound like Car and Driver's article was an opinion article. It was mostly based on hard data. I guess you could blame the driver in the test though. If you are worried about cold and wet performance you should have went all season tire anyways instead of a performance summer tire.

Yup, agree 100%.

Originally Posted by isugoo

Interesting to see other owners opinions. I was highly considering this tire next spring..

You still should, especially living in warm San Diego.

[GTM]

The sidewall of V12 feels VERY soft...
I would never put this tire on 400+hp FR cars...

[Bluechipper]

Originally Posted by jml

After 200 miles my opinion is that they are the worst tire I've ever had on a car, well maybe not as bad as the Kumho MX. The cold & wet traction here in Austin is scary bad. Responsiveness is a step down. Overall a terrible choice for an M3 and I've canceled my subscription to C&D - that tire shoot out was clearly rigged.

You probably should have read the article more carefully.

quote: "... the V12 is an impressive and well-rounded summer tire."

[smmmurf]

200 miles usually isn't even enough to get rid of the mold release compound on most tires... wait a while and see what you think after another month or so.

[MrHarris]

Get the AD08's and call it a day.

[LiM3y]

I have been very pleased with theses tires after ~5K. I thought I would test them out as a whole set cost the same as a pair of rear PS2's and I went through the PS2s in ~10K.

Traction day-to-day has been equitable to PS2 except when the road has been 'damp' as opposed to wet, the PS2 were more forgiving. This may be due to having a harder compound. They did well at the track and remained predictable (2 days at NJMP) on an 'intermediate' driven car, although the center bar took a hammering at looks a little beaten up when they were taken off for the winter, but the grip level didn't seem to change. All-in-all, I am very happy with the tire and they have caused me no problems.
I don't really have the opportunity to high performance drive every day, so this tire suits me fine, but saying that, the Vreds seem well received, so I might try those next time round.

200 miles is very early for a review on a tire and you might be lucky to have not had a worse experience testing their limits right off the bat.

[jml]

Originally Posted by King Tut

You make it sound like Car and Driver's article was an opinion article. It was mostly based on hard data.

That's why I usually take their tests seriously. I tried the Goodyear F1s based on their advice and against my better judgment and found them to be a really good street tire. They did say the Hankooks were not as good in the wet and had less responsiveness, so I did theoretically get into this with my eyes wide open, though in the end the consumer's opinion or action is never based on rationality.

Originally Posted by King Tut

If you are worried about cold and wet performance you should have went all season tire anyways instead of a performance summer tire.

True (though I'd never put anything less than a max/extreme perf or full on winter tire), we don't really have winters in Austin and cold wet traction is not important to me. I'm just comparing to worn PS2s I had on the car a few weeks ago during my normal antics on the way to work and the weather has been in the 40/50ss and a tad wet during the last few weeks.

The responsiveness is clearly a step down though. The rear feels a little like a worn E46 trailing arm bushing getting loose, the rear wiggles under throttle modulation.

I guess maybe I'm overly sensitive to the traction of the car then if others are liking the V12. I spend a lot of time at the track racing or teaching, so it's possible my ass is too-finely calibrated to these things.

I don't plan to buy them again and will spend more next time around on something obviously more tuned in the direction I'm sensitive to. I think the E90 has enough NVH isolation that an increase in noise and stiffness will not as big a deal as a feared - so possibly A08s or RE11s next time around. I'm not postulating that the V12s are comparable tires, so let's not go there.

[bobbyd1961]

i love the michelins. and my dunlop snows will be tested today big time.

[M3V8Driver]

Originally Posted by Bluechipper

You probably should have read the article more carefully.

quote: "... the V12 is an impressive and well-rounded summer tire."

Yep, I chalked up the OP's opinion to "user error", especially since he thinks the Kumho Ecsta MX's suck too. I turned faster lap times on a set of those than many others did on R-compound tires! Both the V12 and Ecsta MX are better summer tires than the PS2s. But like most summer-only tires, they don't take kind to the cold or the wet. My PS2s regularly overheated at the track, rolled, chunked, and ultimately gave up the ghost at 6700 miles when inner cords began to show.

[jml]

Originally Posted by M3V8Driver

Yep, I chalked up the OP's opinion to "user error", especially since he thinks the Kumho Ecsta MX's suck too. I turned faster lap times on a set of those than many others did on R-compound tires! Both the V12 and Ecsta MX are better summer tires than the PS2s. But like most summer-only tires, they don't take kind to the cold or the wet. My PS2s regularly overheated at the track, rolled, chunked, and ultimately gave up the ghost at 6700 miles when inner cords began to show.

True, the MX was a better track tire before the extreme perf class appeared on the market, I used to run them on my E46 when I was learning to drive. As you say, good dry perf, difficult to overheat, and the tread blocks were big and robust. Take them out in ANY dampness and they turned to stone, unlike most modern compounds and even most R-comps. Unless you live in southern California, street driving involves dampness and even standing water at times.

If you are comparing your driving skills to those of another and chalk it up to the tire, you are doing yourself a disservice. You are the better driver and could probably be faster than those around while driving a toyota camry.


Yes, maybe user error (miss-set expectations) - but it's overall a step down from PS2s if your goal is to maintain the sharp character of the car or improve upon it. The cold (40-50F), damp traction is substantially less than a PS2. That may not matter to anyone running a dedicated winter tire, but in the south, most of us run one tire and hope that it doesn't try to kill us in the winter months. Those of us with a dedicated track wheel and tire package should not care either, but since I find that I can't use the car's capabilities on the street (mainly to accelerate merging into traffic after a 90 degree corner) and that it dulls the responsiveness, I am going to say they are a poor street tire for the car as well. I have pretty high standards, but it's my fault I expected to get cake and eat it to.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

Get the AD08's and call it a day.

+1. Was a big fan of the Michelins until the AD08s hit the streets.

[///FCB]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

+1. Was a big fan of the Michelins until the AD08s hit the streets.

oh man I wish yokohama offered them in 20...

[jml]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

+1. Was a big fan of the Michelins until the AD08s hit the streets.

Yep, that's the direction I'll be headed...with maybe some CSL style wheels too ;-)

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

+1. Was a big fan of the Michelins until the AD08s hit the streets.

same here

[Bimmerboy87]

great tires, especially for the money.

[alms21]

Got them on my 997S and they are 99% the tire the PS2 is..........at 50% the cost. I have 2k miles on mine and they feel every bit as good as the Michelin PS2's that I have on my stockers.....and a good bit quieter. I plan on picking up an '08 or '09 E92M3 and would not hesitate one bit about buying these tires again.

[Golgothar]

For straight acceleration & traction i have to say they beat my stock P2's hands down, these tires have awesome "grip" and seem to hook up allot faster under hard acceleration than my P2's ever did.

On the downside the sidewall does seem noticeably softer than the P2's and as a result they do not inspire allot of confidence in me in hard turns but this negative can possibly be over-come as i have the tires longer and learn thier limits and learn to trust the tire.

Over all it's a great "bang for your buck" tire imho though for my next set im thinking of trying the sessantas.

Hope that helps!

[revster]

I've put on at least three thousand miles (probably more, not sure exactly, too busy driving this bish) on my 275/30(F) 305/30(R) setup.

For $800 total, these tires are a great value and performance is not bad. My tire benchmark is the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 (effing Goodyear doesn't make the proper sizes in the replacement F1 Asymmetric) and while these aren't as good, I'm not missing a whole lot, even compared to the stock PS2s.

Grip in the wet is fine for a max performance summer tire. Soft sidewall? Dunno, but they don't seem worse than the PS2s and those are notorious for having a very soft sidewall.

One of the best features of this tire is it's quiet ride, much quieter than the stock PS2. I was very surprised given the massive sizing of my setup.

If you're budget is limited, you should consider these 'Kooks. Like the Vredestein Sessantas, they are a great value for about 800 clams.

[stryker1]

I just purchased a set for my alu felgen wheels, i hope i will have a good opinion when its all said and done