track report - e92 at Buttonwillow Raceway - M3 Forum 2010 2009 BMW M3 2008 BMW M3 BMW E90 M3 E92

sayemthree · 07-21-2008, 03:32 PM

track report - e92 at Buttonwillow

I went to Buttonwillow and it was hot…. 105 degrees. this was my first time tracking the e92 so I ran with MDM on and was pretty conservative. MDM starting kicking in towards the end of the day as I pushed more - it sure is a HUGE improvement over the e46 traction control. otherwise the car was awesome and no brake issues , no brake fade, although the brake pedal felt a tiny bit soft after the last run however I came off the track hot to get tire temps so that probably didn’t help. oil temp hit about 255 ( on Friday I heard a DCT car went into limp home overheat- also more DCT downshift issues) . The BFG tires were awesome and the tire temps were very consistent , within 10 degrees across the tire.

I ran EDC in normal. The e92 handles way better than the e46 stock for stock IMO. the e92 feel lighter and leans less. through the bus stop turns the e46 would wallow and lean. the e92 just carves it up. the torque is awesome and the high rpm saves shifting and hitting redline in a few places. had fun playing with a GT3 which seemed to be the only car out there to present much of a challenge.

Gearhead999s · 07-21-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayemthree

track report - e92 at Buttonwillow

I went to Buttonwillow and it was hot…. 105 degrees. this was my first time tracking the e92 so I ran with MDM on and was pretty conservative. MDM starting kicking in towards the end of the day as I pushed more - it sure is a HUGE improvement over the e46 traction control. otherwise the car was awesome and no brake issues , no brake fade, although the brake pedal felt a tiny bit soft after the last run however I came off the track hot to get tire temps so that probably didn’t help. oil temp hit about 255 ( on Friday I heard a DCT car went into limp home overheat- also more DCT downshift issues) . The BFG tires were awesome and the tire temps were very consistent , within 10 degrees across the tire.

.

Are you running the stock alignment settings?

sayemthree · 07-21-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

Are you running the stock alignment settings?

yes - car is bone stock excpet tires and wheels.

footie · 07-21-2008, 04:58 PM

More track issues with DCT.

I wonder, the car which went into limp mode due to overheat, maybe it was one of the ones meant for recall.

lucid · 07-21-2008, 05:14 PM

Based on 3 reports, it sounds like we've somewhat established that oil temps will hit 255 on a hot day.

Dascamel · 07-21-2008, 07:53 PM

On Sat the track conditions were fairly extreme by the afternoon. I talked to the same DCT M3 driver, his transmission overheated according to the message.

lucid · 07-21-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dascamel

On Sat the track conditions were fairly extreme by the afternoon. I talked to the same DCT M3 driver, his transmission overheated according to the message.

Do you know how high his engine oil temp was running? DCT is supposed to plug into the same cooling curcuit so that might be an indication apart from the error message.

Dascamel · 07-21-2008, 09:55 PM

Didn't ask, I caught up with him as I was leaving on Sunday. His advice was cancel your order..... (hahaha like the wife will let me at this point)

sayemthree · 07-22-2008, 12:46 AM

skierman64 · 07-22-2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dascamel

On Sat the track conditions were fairly extreme by the afternoon. I talked to the same DCT M3 driver, his transmission overheated according to the message.

Did he only have one overheat message or did it continue to reoccur all weekend?

sg335 · 07-22-2008, 02:03 AM

Yes, please give us more info on this overheating issue with DCT. This sucks if true and if going to happen when pushing the car hard at track events. I was hoping that the overheating issues with the turbo 335 would disappear with the M3 DCT. May want to cancel my order.

Dascamel · 07-22-2008, 03:17 AM

When talking with him, his first issue was the delay/deny in downshifting under extreme conditions. From the look of it, he was fairly experienced and in the A group. Most of the discussion was about the shifts. Only after I brought up temperature did he even mention the limp mode due to the transmission. He was busy changing his brakes on a roadster at the time, didn't want to badger him too much.
Point of reference, someone measured the surface temp of the track, 142 degrees. This is about as extreme as it gets out here. My instructor in his e46, smg had to pull back, temp needle was in the red. Even with the temps, weekend was a blast.

Others I've spoken with seem to like the car, wish it was lighter with better mpg, but thats about it. Those were all the MT guys though.

footie · 07-22-2008, 11:37 AM

I think the main difference here on this occasion is that a DCT car will warn you of an overheat problem, where as a manual won't. Also I am getting the impression that the better the driver the more this gearbox will frustrate you, especially on the track because it's seems to have been design more for pleasure driving and less serious track work.

Slightly moving off topic (sort of) but will see if this is an isolated problem to BMW.

On all the time I had the GTi DSG I never experienced any problems at all, so I was wondering if those of you out there who happened to has a DSG car and tracked it occasionally did you ever experience any problems apart from the normal DSG one which was automatic change up at the limiter.

I never tracked mine, wife's car so no chance of that happening, plus the mess would have been awful what with all those groceries in the boot.

Also the same question goes out to anyone else with a car with a dual clutch transmission other than BMW or VAG. GTR guys out there and EVO guys, which are your findings regarding both track work and general driving on the road.

clubspec330i · 07-22-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I never tracked mine, wife's car so no chance of that happening, plus the mess would have been awful what with all those groceries in the boot.

I hear ya..

You need to get your wife E93 M3 so she can enjoy the sun while picking up the grocery.

I am contemplating trading my wife E92 335i in for E92 M3 DCT in a year or so..and keep my E90 M3 just for me & my son and the track..

sg335 · 07-22-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dascamel

When talking with him, his first issue was the delay/deny in downshifting under extreme conditions. From the look of it, he was fairly experienced and in the A group. Most of the discussion was about the shifts. Only after I brought up temperature did he even mention the limp mode due to the transmission. He was busy changing his brakes on a roadster at the time, didn't want to badger him too much.
Point of reference, someone measured the surface temp of the track, 142 degrees. This is about as extreme as it gets out here. My instructor in his e46, smg had to pull back, temp needle was in the red. Even with the temps, weekend was a blast.

Others I've spoken with seem to like the car, wish it was lighter with better mpg, but thats about it. Those were all the MT guys though.

Do you know how to get in contact with this guy? Is he a forum member? This should really be tracked carefully to see if the DCT cars overheat faster than the MT's. Did any MT drivers have any problems?

What systems are shared in the DCT that are not in the MT?

Dascamel · 07-22-2008, 01:58 PM

Older gentleman with a straw hat, hangs out with another guy in a Vette. I think they are from San Diego, but thats about all the info I have. Does Sayemthree know him, looking at the pics he was parked fairly close to him.

swamp2 · 07-22-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I think the main difference here on this occasion is that a DCT car will warn you of an overheat problem, where as a manual won't. Also I am getting the impression that the better the driver the more this gearbox will frustrate you, especially on the track because it's seems to have been design more for pleasure driving and less serious track work.

Speculation, speculation, speculation.

But then again, I suppose you are right, no BMW test drivers punished the M-DCT with track work during development. The new M3 only need to keep grocery getters and weekend canyoneers happy.

footie · 07-22-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

Speculation, speculation, speculation.

But then again, I suppose you are right, no BMW test drivers punished the M-DCT with track work during development. The new M3 only need to keep grocery getters and weekend canyoneers happy.

Of course it is speculation, the same applies to whether T-Bone actually likes lattes, whether you actually agree with anyone for more than 5 seconds and if South is as independent from BMW as he lets on.

Regardless of what you agree with or disagree with, the facts are that BMW have shifted the M3's position in the market place from an out and out racer to a more balance car which covers more bases and appeals to more people because of it.

I have my theories, and they are that you will find the GTR owners will not be complaining about the same things as we are when on a race track. The fact that none of this issues are surfacing on the road means that BMW have set the gearbox to play it safe instead of allowing the driver total control.

Enigma even said that D5 proved to be quickest which may mean that the gearbox knows best after all.

I just wished he had tried one of the slower setting to see if the same issues arise or was it solely a S5~6 problem. (Where most of the surge is -jk)

Gearhead999s · 07-22-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I think the main difference here on this occasion is that a DCT car will warn you of an overheat problem, where as a manual won't. Also I am getting the impression that the better the driver the more this gearbox will frustrate you, especially on the track because it's seems to have been design more for pleasure driving and less serious track work.

Slightly moving off topic (sort of) but will see if this is an isolated problem to BMW.

On all the time I had the GTi DSG I never experienced any problems at all, so I was wondering if those of you out there who happened to has a DSG car and tracked it occasionally did you ever experience any problems apart from the normal DSG one which was automatic change up at the limiter.

I never tracked mine, wife's car so no chance of that happening, plus the mess would have been awful what with all those groceries in the boot.

Also the same question goes out to anyone else with a car with a dual clutch transmission other than BMW or VAG. GTR guys out there and EVO guys, which are your findings regarding both track work and general driving on the road.

The issues that I experianced on track with my wifes GTI DSG were an aweful lot like what is being experianced by the agressive M-dct drivers.

Inconsistant downshifts under hard braking which seemed to be influenced by the ABS activation even with the DSC turned off.On a fwd car this is a real problem as late braking or left foot braking can be used to help rotate the car into the corner.

Unique to the VW(as far as I know)

uncommanded upshifts to the next gear just before redline

uncommanded downshifts when trying to torque it out of a corner which resulted in tons of unwanted wheelspin.

There were no issues with temps in 1/2 hour sessions and terminal speed at the end of the longest straight stayed consistant through the complete day which was over 3 hours on track.

With my experiance on the VW ,if I was to aquirre another GTI it would be a 6 speed "normal" gearbox car not a DSG.I am very disapointed that the issues have cropped up on M-DCT,I expected a lot better from BMW.

sayemthree · 07-22-2008, 04:35 PM

MarksM posted here the first time.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146579

he is a very experience driver in A group and I think had been invited to instruct but pefers to just drive. He comes from a tricked out e36? MCoupe fully track ready. A lightwieght go cart compared to the M3. He hates his new M3. coming from a e46 M3 I absolutely love mine. of course its a MT so I havent had these issues.

Like I said my oil temps were 255 and got no limp home. I was pushing pretty hard for my first time on the car.

footie · 07-22-2008, 04:39 PM

I was expecting a similar thing with the DSG because it really is design for luxury, more so than I believed the M-DCT would have been. The temperture issues are something I would have expect to occur with the DSG, especially as it was one generation and not third generation as is with the BMW system.

As I said, track work is not my thing anymore and I never intended to take the M3 to a trackday, so the fact that DCT isn't proving to be that great doesn't concern me. But I think it will be a big issue for a lot of you and BMW will need to pull their finger out and fix it soon before to many people lose faith in the technology.

Blip Bavarian · 07-22-2008, 04:41 PM

glad to see that your track wheel/tire setup worked out.

07-21-2008, 03:32 PM	#1
sayemthree Brigadier General Drives: ObamieTheKommie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ObamaKommieLand Posts: 4,852 iTrader: (0)	track report - e92 at Buttonwillow Raceway track report - e92 at Buttonwillow I went to Buttonwillow and it was hot…. 105 degrees. this was my first time tracking the e92 so I ran with MDM on and was pretty conservative. MDM starting kicking in towards the end of the day as I pushed more - it sure is a HUGE improvement over the e46 traction control. otherwise the car was awesome and no brake issues , no brake fade, although the brake pedal felt a tiny bit soft after the last run however I came off the track hot to get tire temps so that probably didn’t help. oil temp hit about 255 ( on Friday I heard a DCT car went into limp home overheat- also more DCT downshift issues) . The BFG tires were awesome and the tire temps were very consistent , within 10 degrees across the tire. I ran EDC in normal. The e92 handles way better than the e46 stock for stock IMO. the e92 feel lighter and leans less. through the bus stop turns the e46 would wallow and lean. the e92 just carves it up. the torque is awesome and the high rpm saves shifting and hitting redline in a few places. had fun playing with a GT3 which seemed to be the only car out there to present much of a challenge.

07-21-2008, 04:58 PM	#4
footie Commander-in-Chief Drives: ???????????? Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In a house near you Posts: 6,622 iTrader: (0) View footie's Garage	More track issues with DCT. I wonder, the car which went into limp mode due to overheat, maybe it was one of the ones meant for recall. __________________ 2010 A?diS??va?t 2009 **XF3.0dS Portfolio** (hanging in there by a thread) 2009 Golf GTI Mk6

07-21-2008, 05:14 PM	#5
lucid Major General Drives: Z4M coupe; E30 M3 track Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,591 iTrader: (0) View lucid's Garage	Based on 3 reports, it sounds like we've somewhat established that oil temps will hit 255 on a hot day. __________________ Track vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/nhmse92m3#p/u

07-21-2008, 07:53 PM	#6
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,631 iTrader: (0)	On Sat the track conditions were fairly extreme by the afternoon. I talked to the same DCT M3 driver, his transmission overheated according to the message. __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)

07-21-2008, 09:55 PM	#8
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,631 iTrader: (0)	Didn't ask, I caught up with him as I was leaving on Sunday. His advice was cancel your order..... (hahaha like the wife will let me at this point) __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)

07-22-2008, 12:46 AM	#9
sayemthree Brigadier General Drives: ObamieTheKommie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ObamaKommieLand Posts: 4,852 iTrader: (0)

07-22-2008, 02:03 AM	#11
sg335 Captain Drives: 335i Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 651 iTrader: (0)	Yes, please give us more info on this overheating issue with DCT. This sucks if true and if going to happen when pushing the car hard at track events. I was hoping that the overheating issues with the turbo 335 would disappear with the M3 DCT. May want to cancel my order.

07-22-2008, 03:17 AM	#12
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,631 iTrader: (0)	When talking with him, his first issue was the delay/deny in downshifting under extreme conditions. From the look of it, he was fairly experienced and in the A group. Most of the discussion was about the shifts. Only after I brought up temperature did he even mention the limp mode due to the transmission. He was busy changing his brakes on a roadster at the time, didn't want to badger him too much. Point of reference, someone measured the surface temp of the track, 142 degrees. This is about as extreme as it gets out here. My instructor in his e46, smg had to pull back, temp needle was in the red. Even with the temps, weekend was a blast. Others I've spoken with seem to like the car, wish it was lighter with better mpg, but thats about it. Those were all the MT guys though. __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)

07-22-2008, 11:37 AM	#13
footie Commander-in-Chief Drives: ???????????? Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In a house near you Posts: 6,622 iTrader: (0) View footie's Garage	I think the main difference here on this occasion is that a DCT car will warn you of an overheat problem, where as a manual won't. Also I am getting the impression that the better the driver the more this gearbox will frustrate you, especially on the track because it's seems to have been design more for pleasure driving and less serious track work. Slightly moving off topic (sort of) but will see if this is an isolated problem to BMW. On all the time I had the GTi DSG I never experienced any problems at all, so I was wondering if those of you out there who happened to has a DSG car and tracked it occasionally did you ever experience any problems apart from the normal DSG one which was automatic change up at the limiter. I never tracked mine, wife's car so no chance of that happening, plus the mess would have been awful what with all those groceries in the boot. Also the same question goes out to anyone else with a car with a dual clutch transmission other than BMW or VAG. GTR guys out there and EVO guys, which are your findings regarding both track work and general driving on the road. __________________ 2010 A?diS??va?t 2009 **XF3.0dS Portfolio** (hanging in there by a thread) 2009 Golf GTI Mk6

07-22-2008, 01:58 PM	#16
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,631 iTrader: (0)	Older gentleman with a straw hat, hangs out with another guy in a Vette. I think they are from San Diego, but thats about all the info I have. Does Sayemthree know him, looking at the pics he was parked fairly close to him. __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)

07-22-2008, 04:35 PM	#20
sayemthree Brigadier General Drives: ObamieTheKommie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ObamaKommieLand Posts: 4,852 iTrader: (0)	MarksM posted here the first time. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146579 he is a very experience driver in A group and I think had been invited to instruct but pefers to just drive. He comes from a tricked out e36? MCoupe fully track ready. A lightwieght go cart compared to the M3. He hates his new M3. coming from a e46 M3 I absolutely love mine. of course its a MT so I havent had these issues. Like I said my oil temps were 255 and got no limp home. I was pushing pretty hard for my first time on the car.

07-22-2008, 04:39 PM	#21
footie Commander-in-Chief Drives: ???????????? Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In a house near you Posts: 6,622 iTrader: (0) View footie's Garage	I was expecting a similar thing with the DSG because it really is design for luxury, more so than I believed the M-DCT would have been. The temperture issues are something I would have expect to occur with the DSG, especially as it was one generation and not third generation as is with the BMW system. As I said, track work is not my thing anymore and I never intended to take the M3 to a trackday, so the fact that DCT isn't proving to be that great doesn't concern me. But I think it will be a big issue for a lot of you and BMW will need to pull their finger out and fix it soon before to many people lose faith in the technology. __________________ 2010 A?diS??va?t 2009 **XF3.0dS Portfolio** (hanging in there by a thread) 2009 Golf GTI Mk6

07-22-2008, 04:41 PM	#22
Blip Bavarian salivator Drives: E92 M3 6MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 462 iTrader: (0)	glad to see that your track wheel/tire setup worked out.