C7 Zo6

[Ezio]

i cant believe i am on a BMW M3 forum where there is DCT owners and all people are looking at is the shift speed. GM says they can make the tranny shift very fast. OK i believe them.

i dont want a numb torque converted auto. the DCT are rough and the rough just driving around town is what makes them feel better.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i cant believe i am on a BMW M3 forum where there is DCT owners and all people are looking at is the shift speed. GM says they can make the tranny shift very fast. OK i believe them.

i dont want a numb torque converted auto. the DCT are rough and the rough just driving around town is what makes them feel better.

DCT are inferior to torque converter based automatics. They are more clunky and rough just like you said, and not as smooth or refined as traditional automatics. DCT boxes are also notorious for being unable to handle higher levels of torque. In addition they are more expensive and less reliable than conventional autos. The only reason for their popularity and the only real advantage they had was their super fast shift speed. Conventional auto boxes just could not be made to shift quickly enough. But if GM really managed to make a traditional automatic gearbox shift as fast as a DCT, then the DCT is just pointless and irrelevant in this regard.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Petros

DCT are inferior to torque converter based automatics. They are more clunky and rough just like you said, and not as smooth or refined as traditional automatics. DCT boxes are also notorious for being unable to handle higher levels of torque. In addition they are more expensive and less reliable than conventional autos. The only reason for their popularity and the only real advantage they had was their super fast shift speed. Conventional auto boxes just could not be made to shift quickly enough. But if GM really managed to make a traditional automatic gearbox shift as fast as a DCT, then the DCT is just pointless and irrelevant in this regard.

We'll see...

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Petros

DCT are inferior to torque converter based automatics. They are more clunky and rough just like you said, and not as smooth or refined as traditional automatics. DCT boxes are also notorious for being unable to handle higher levels of torque. In addition they are more expensive and less reliable than conventional autos. The only reason for their popularity and the only real advantage they had was their super fast shift speed. Conventional auto boxes just could not be made to shift quickly enough. But if GM really managed to make a traditional automatic gearbox shift as fast as a DCT, then the DCT is just pointless and irrelevant in this regard.

the rough feel is what i like about them. and many will agree.

you seem like the perfect buyer for this new GM tranny if thats your view. i agree though on the points why DCTs are used.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Petros

But if GM really managed to make a traditional automatic gearbox shift as fast as a DCT, then the DCT is just pointless and irrelevant in this regard.

On upshifts, downshifts, and paddle/shift responsiveness I'll believe it when I see it.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Petros

DCT are inferior to torque converter based automatics. They are more clunky and rough just like you said, and not as smooth or refined as traditional automatics. DCT boxes are also notorious for being unable to handle higher levels of torque. In addition they are more expensive and less reliable than conventional autos. The only reason for their popularity and the only real advantage they had was their super fast shift speed. Conventional auto boxes just could not be made to shift quickly enough. But if GM really managed to make a traditional automatic gearbox shift as fast as a DCT, then the DCT is just pointless and irrelevant in this regard.

Good post. DCT, double cluch tranny is way better, smoother than previous generation, single clutch smg, but still, is not as smooth as conventional auto in every day driving. Both smg and dct are very fast on the track, but not as good on the street in auto mode. I have my m3 dct for 5 years now, and never use auto mode, ever.
Now, like you said, if GM was able to make traditional autobox at least as fast shiftig gears as dct, pdk, but remain smooth and comfortable on the street, then there will be no reason for any car maker to manufacture expensive units like DCT.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i cant believe i am on a BMW M3 forum where there is DCT owners and all people are looking at is the shift speed. GM says they can make the tranny shift very fast. OK i believe them.

i dont want a numb torque converted auto. the DCT are rough and the rough just driving around town is what makes them feel better.

You should try SMG if you like rough gear shifting. I guarantee, you will love it.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

You should try SMG if you like rough gear shifting. I guarantee, you will love it.

i had a friend who had a E60 M5 SMG. i already know i love it.

you know Lamborghini uses something like a SMG transmission because DCTs are to soft and not enough emotion.

[pkimM3r]

I just drove a 458 for a few laps. And a dual clutch is the way to go. So dct is better than manual and now autoshitboxes are better than dct?!

Just did a full circle. Who cares about everyday smoothness. It has to shine on the track not in the city. I'll be damned to buy a ferrari with a autoshitbox

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

I just drove a 458 for a few laps. And a dual clutch is the way to go. So dct is better than manual and now autoshitboxes are better than dct?!

Just did a full circle. Who cares about everyday smoothness. It has to shine on the track not in the city. I'll be damned to buy a ferrari with a autoshitbox

Don't you have a prius?

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by ///M3Owner

Dct is great for performance but honestly you don't have a feel for the car and neither will you with an automatic. You're bonded with the car with a stick not some paddles. I love my M3 but I'm very excited to get my next car in a stick. Plus who wants to drive a muscle car with paddles

I drive a 6mt e90. I've driven manual all my life. I just drove a 458 last weekend at vegas on a small track. Had a great feel for the car regardless of paddles. Im over the nostalgia. My heel toe and shifting are pretty on point at the track. But Holy shit it was fun. In the city i would get bored quick though.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Don't you have a prius?

Its at the shop with Manuel. Thanks for the referral.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Its at the shop with Manuel. Thanks for the referral.

Very good sir, funny shit!

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Very good sir, funny shit!

Hoping he can work his magic to get 100+mpg.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Hoping he can work his magic to get 100+mpg.

at least in a prius you have an excuse to get beat down on the track.

[lux]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i had a friend who had a E60 M5 SMG. i already know i love it.

you know Lamborghini uses something like a SMG transmission because DCTs are to soft and not enough emotion.

The new Lamborghini Huracan (Gallardo successor) will have DCT.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i had a friend who had a E60 M5 SMG. i already know i love it.

you know Lamborghini uses something like a SMG transmission because DCTs are to soft and not enough emotion.

Is it supposed to cry?

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Ezio

the rough feel is what i like about them. and many will agree.
.

I agree... it is the more direct connection to the car that the DCT provides over an auto. It was something I missed going from my M3 to my C63.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by gthal

I agree... it is the more direct connection to the car that the DCT provides over an auto. It was something I missed going from my M3 to my C63.

I see what you are saying. Very good point. But i have had two cars with DCT, one for 5 years and the other for 4. Want to try something else now, and i am not going back to manual. Maybe i am getting old

[Petros]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

I just drove a 458 for a few laps. And a dual clutch is the way to go. So dct is better than manual and now autoshitboxes are better than dct?!

Just did a full circle. Who cares about everyday smoothness. It has to shine on the track not in the city. I'll be damned to buy a ferrari with a autoshitbox

You must have forgotten to read the part where the Z06 "autoshitbox" will shift faster than a DCT. Oh and the Z06 will crush the 458 on the track.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by gthal

I agree... it is the more direct connection to the car that the DCT provides over an auto. It was something I missed going from my M3 to my C63.

Funny how when someone says they prefer the manual because it has a more direct connection to the car, the DCT fanboys brag about how much faster the shifting is with the DCT compared to the outdated 3 pedal set up. And now when a conventional auto with a torque converter is claimed to shift even faster than a DCT, the DCT fanboys pull an about face and the slower shifting DCT is now better because it has a more direct connection to the car?!?!?!!

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Petros

Funny how when someone says they prefer the manual because it has a more direct connection to the car, the DCT fanboys brag about how much faster the shifting is with the DCT compared to the outdated 3 pedal set up. And now when a conventional auto with a torque converter is claimed to shift even faster than a DCT, the DCT fanboys pull an about face and the slower shifting DCT is now better because it has a more direct connection to the car?!?!?!!

I don't think you are interpreting this correctly. I think all some are saying is that it isn't just about shift speed when comparing a DCT and auto. There is a different feel with a DCT versus an torque converter auto. Clearly "connection" and "feel" for either isn't the same as a MT car.

Torque converter based autos may upshift as fast or faster but the downfall of a torque converter auto has always been, and my bet will continue to be, the downshift speed. That and shift "crispness". Also remember than even on upshifts, a DCT is effectively instant so even if the auto is faster there will be little perceived improvement in actual use IMO. To me, a DCT and a fast auto are essentially equal relative to actual upshift performance as both are for all intents and purposes instant.

I don't think an auto is a bad option at all... my bet is it will perform very well and serve the car well. There will be a difference in feel of the transmission versus a DCT (and that may matter to some) and I will be interested in the downshift speed relative to a DCT.

The MCT auto in my C63 upshifted almost as fast as the DCT in my M3 but it downshifted more slowly and never felt as connected or crisp. It was more of a feeling than an actual performance problem. The MCT auto is, IMO, comparable in performance to the new ZF autos and is very capable. It was also no where near as fun as the DCT in my M3.

In terms of "connection" and "feel" with the car, MT > DCT > any auto.

In terms of upshift performance, DCT = new autos and both are better than MT

In terms of downshift performance, DCT > auto has been my experience... we will have to wait and see on GM's new 8 speed.