New Speculations on the F30 M3 / F32 M3

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

Scott has already confirmed that the next gen 1M will have a 4 cylinder and the current generation may have a form of the N55.

Scott made mention of a possible 4 cylinder configuration for the future 1M, but doesn't confirm it any point. He was careful to parse his words. See below.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

With the move to a four cylinder for the F22 1M Coupe. The Future 1M and
M3 can be seperated a lot more individually between four and six cylinders which is what the intention is.
As of now some say power output is too close not to want one but the other.
There are other elements , however which is a different story.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Current six cylinder engines are being replaced with similar output , but increased efficiency and less weight and to do this will see a line of new turbo-charged four cylinder engines. In Europe BMW have always offered four cylinders and this is progression to accomodate future challenges and legislation. I would say it will difficult but some have to comply with that there will be a BMW in the US Market with four cylinders replacing six cylinders.

Since it is early days the strategy for 1M (F22) is only on paper and they have compiled a "shopping list" of what they want to do for the car that is nigh impossible to do on this outgoing car.

Originally Posted by southlight

We're talking about a car that's four years away (at least), so they haven't finally decided on its engine yet. The crucial question will be whether the F22 135i will be a six or a four. I completely agree with you that BMW won't offer a four banger M alongside an N55 powered 135i.


Best regards,
south

[crackberry]

im stoked about the m3 sedan. i knew that they would not get rid of it.

as for the mt, im sure they will not get rid of it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by southlight

Following

E90/E92 M3:

Finally, here's a heads-up for everybody disdaining BMW M's decision to turn away from high-revving, naturally aspirated, engines: You better be quick to put in your order for an E9x M3. The rumor has it that the E9x M3 ends production in 2011, including the E92 and E93 M3.
Best regards,
south

South... where did you get this information from? I remember Scott quite explicitly mentioning less than one month ago that production on the e92 M would end in 2012. See below.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

A Z4M is inevitable - The 1M dies by 2012 as does the M3 by mid 2012.
The M5 will be available as it joins the X5M and X6M with the M6 Coupe coming later in 2012. This leaves nothing for the compact-medium segment for M Division. The same problem when the previous car was introduced , the M3 was just about dead and nothing to support the larger M5 and M6 models.

[emthreeboy]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Final sale figures of the SMG II on the E46 M3 was 50/50. My guess is that it's higher than that with the E9x, in favor of the twin-clutch system. Maybe 70/30? We'll see when final production numbers come out.

I read some facts few weeks ago that the M-DCT sells 3 to 1 over the 6MT, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they keep the 6MT on a leash for the F3X M3.

[Blubaron79]

MT is a dinosaur.

[graider]

it will be fine. apparrently there are lot of people that love turbo cars. This will actually bring more people to bmw. imagine all those jdm, audi, vw crowds who are used to turbo cars.

[Ironring Racing]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

M is about character and each car has to have a unique character and that includes engines. Dogmas might be thrown out the window , but an M will always be an M not a superfast BMW 135i, 335i or 550i.

Scott, respectfully, I disagree.

It really can't be denied that M is moving away from their roots. SUV's, minor suspension modifications, and now they're not even creating their own engines; just modifying existing blocks.

Previously an M3 with the V8, an M5 with the V10, were unique M's. But honestly, other than the engine the current E90 M3 is an easy suspension conversion kit away from a 335. The F30 looks to make it even less unique; just a stroker kit on the N55?!?

Just look at the recent Autobild review. Anyone notice the Alpina (read: Tuned 335), is the fastest to 50, and still 3rd fastest at 200kph. It beats everything except the 490Hp Merc in ALL the roll-ons.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443965

It's the lightest car in the test, 8 tenths (0.8%) off on the lap times, oh, AND gets the best economy, AND costs up to 20% less than the competition.

To me, it looks like the 335 embodies more of what the original M stood for.

[cheese on fried toast]

im pretty sure that BMW will offer a full manual with a stick, its soo far away so u cant be sure about it, but it wouldnt make any sense to take away the stick

[Evan135]

I do not want to get off topic, but a Boxster, a Boss 302 Mustang or Corvette are looking more like the ultimate driving machines if you want a 6MT. I hate to say it but BMW may be drifting from it's roots due to mileage, emmisions, and the fact fewer people have the ability to drive a stick. It kind of makes me sad....

I think the debate over 6MT or DCT is really pointless. If speed is your primary concern, DCT is the answer. If you want to enjoy the car more and have greater control use a 6MT. To each his own...

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

MT is a dinosaur.

Post is ignorant.

[Imola.ZHP]

^ x2

Said by someone that most likely hasn't felt the feeling of being connected to a car with a great MT...

I'll drive MT until I can no longer do so, and then, well, I wont have much to live for or I'll die trying.

[M3KW]

Originally Posted by JAdamz

So you think there WILL be a MY2012 though? And it's just that production will stop in the year 2011, and not necessarily MY2011?

Edit: Think I misinterpreted your post, I believe you're saying that production ends with MY2011 (aka when MY2012 begins) which is probably early next year?

If the rumour proves to be true, then yes, when MY2012 starts, that should be the end of production. However, it must be noted that the M3 was released in 2008 and generally M models last for around 6 years, making the replacement due in 2014. If BMW decides to can the M3 early next year, the M3 would have been around for 3 years, meaning a very short life for this model. Looking at it this way (ie 6 year model life), it seems unlikely that they will stop production this soon but I stand to be corrected. I think for safety, anyone looking to purchase a M3 next year should just speak to a dealer to see what their allocation is for next year and to ask when production ends, because they will most likely know when production ends.

[SCOTT26]

Just found out - M3 sedan will be gone by next November because the F30 is launched in November/December. M3 Coupe and Cabrio will be gone about mid 2012. Coupe and Cabrio replacements for the 3er will be launched in Spring and autumn 2013. M3 Replacement for Coupe will be in 2014.

[spiderz17]

So the next-gen sedan launches Nov/Dec 2011, and the coupe doesn't launch until spring 2013? A full year and a half later? That's a hell of a gap.

Edit: Just looked at the timeline on the E9X models, and that's exactly the way it went before. According to wikipedia, E90/1 launched in March 2005 and E92/3 launched in August 2006. That just seems odd to me.

[AMPowerJ]

Originally Posted by Ironring Racing

Previously an M3 with the V8, an M5 with the V10, were unique M's. But honestly, other than the engine the current E90 M3 is an easy suspension conversion kit away from a 335.

Not true. The M3s share virtually no body panels with the 3series cars. I don't remember the exact statistic but almost every body panel is different.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Just found out - M3 sedan will be gone by next November because the F30 is launched in November/December. M3 Coupe and Cabrio will be gone about mid 2012. Coupe and Cabrio replacements for the 3er will be launched in Spring and autumn 2013. M3 Replacement for Coupe will be in 2014.

good thing I'm getting mine in Euro Delivery in april

I was going to do a purchase since I thought the Sedan would be gone, but I may have to do the "bmw preferred" financing and see how things look 5 years down the road

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by southlight

If I told you I'd have to kill you.

Good points, and I calculated this myself yesterday. Yet, the rumor says 3.5l.

I have to believe that, if there really is a 3.5L I6 being tested by BMW, then it must be based on some future I6 architecture we have yet to see. Or maybe this is the supposed V6 we've heard rumors of. What I can't believe is that they will try and make some insanely undersquare motor just for another .5L of displacement. But either way, I still don't think any of this will get beyond the experiemention phase because it means an entirely new engine design. That is, unless they plan to use it in regular series cars as well.

In the end I'll bet they can get the power they need from the 3L I6, especially with some trick tri-turbo setup or whatever they come up with.

Assuming the X3 M gets the green light, yes.

Any idea of the time frame for when that might happen? I think that an X3/X4 M is a no brainer when you consider how much more potential sales there are. So I do fully expect it to make production. And for that matter, X1 and X2 M some time down the road as well.

One last thing: assuming that a Z4 M also gets the green light (it sounds like it will), would that also come after the X3 M, or potentially before it? I have to assume that a Z4 M would use the same motor as the new M3 and X3 M also.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by esquire

Scott made mention of a possible 4 cylinder configuration for the future 1M, but doesn't confirm it any point. He was careful to parse his words. See below.

Sure, but everything we say here is speculation at this point. I am no less convinced that the F2x 1M will have a 4 cyl motor than I am of any other of SCOTT's carefully worded predilections. Which is to say, I believe it will come to pass. Lets face it, hes usually (though certainly not always) correct.

To me that first paragraph of his you cite has "read between the lines" all over it.

South... where did you get this information from? I remember Scott quite explicitly mentioning less than one month ago that production on the e92 M would end in 2012. See below.

Speaking of careful wording. He does "by" in there right? Meaning it could occur before then. So you see, nothing is truly explicit when it comes down to it right? Yet, you believe (as I do) that the M3 will actually live on to 2012, and not go away in 2011.

[Harold Wood]

When do we hope to see spy shots from the Ring.....

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Just found out - M3 sedan will be gone by next November because the F30 is launched in November/December. M3 Coupe and Cabrio will be gone about mid 2012. Coupe and Cabrio replacements for the 3er will be launched in Spring and autumn 2013. M3 Replacement for Coupe will be in 2014.

Thank you for clarifying that SCOTT. This is much closer to what many of us had suggested would happen. Specifically, we got the part about the E90 M3 exiting as the E90/E91 platform is retired, though not exact to-the-month timing as you've presented. We also assumed that the F32/F33 would arrive in 2013, though I personally had it a bit later in the year (nothing until the fall), but then you are probably talking about SOP dates vs. on sale dates for that.

What still doesn't makes sense, at least to me, is that the E92/E93 M3 would bow out a full year before the E92/E93 3 series apparently will. Why would they do that? As I recall it both the E46 M3 and 3 series were on sale well into 2006 up until the E92 3 series came on the scene in late 2006.

[SCOTT26]

Looking back at my notes...

The (E90) 3er sedan debuted in November 2004, and was launched at the Geneva Autoshow in March 2005. The 3er Touring (E91) launched early summer and debuted at the IAA , Frankfurt 2005. The (E92)3er Coupe debuted in April 2006 and Launched at the Paris Autoshow in September 2006. The 3er Cabrio (E93) debuted in October 2006 and debuted at the NAIAS , Detroit January 2007.

The (E92) M3 Coupe Concept debuted at Geneva 2007 with the production car coming in April 2007 before launch at the IAA, Frankfurt 2007.
The (E90) M3 sedan debuted at the Tokyo Motor show in October 2007 and the M3 Cabrio (E93) debuted in January 2008 before being launched in Geneva , March 2008.

The schedule for the (F30) 3er Sedan begins with official premiere in November 2011, Launch will be at the Geneva autoshow in March 2012. The 3er Touring (F31) will debut in it's largest market Germany at Leipzig 2012. The Chinese market 3er Sedan (F34) will debut at Beijing that April. The 3er Coupe (F32) will debut in the early part of 2013 making it's debut in Geneva. The 3er Cabrio (F33) will debut in the summer of 2013 possible IAA 2013 debut. 3er Gran Turismo (F35) ( 3er GT and 3er Li share the same wheelbase)- the new addition to the 3er family will debut in 2013.

The M3 Coupe (F32) and Cabrio (F33) will debut in 2014.

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Just found out - M3 sedan will be gone by next November because the F30 is launched in November/December. M3 Coupe and Cabrio will be gone about mid 2012. Coupe and Cabrio replacements for the 3er will be launched in Spring and autumn 2013. M3 Replacement for Coupe will be in 2014.

But there a rumors, that the M-GmbH is newly discussing an new Z4 M-Roadster to fill the gap between end of Production of the e9x M3 and the begin of production of the f3x M3. 1 to 1+1/2 year seems to be the normal gap between M-generations ... so the discussion about an Z4M as gap filler makes only sence if the complete M3 production would really ends with the end of the sedan production.

The reason for an production end must not necessarily have to do with the end of produktion from the base model ... if emission laws are getting tighter, it could be possible that it is too costly to modify an engine for an rest production life of half an year!

This could an reason why the complete M3 production could ends in November 2011.

Greets Uli_HH