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07-07-2011, 03:16 PM | #23 | |
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So much time and money goes into developing systems to cope with larger, heavier, more powerful cars - those resources would be much better devoted to making the cars lighter (but still incorporating necessary safety features and conveniences that most car buyers want.) The problem is that for most people "lighter" is not going to sell cars to the average slob out there. Marketing folks all want to quote higher horsepower and faster acceleration because that is what sells most people. I think this will change over time as gas prices stay high (and probably continue to go up). If BMW were smart it would lead the way on mainstreaming the benefits of lighter weight (both inside and outside of M Division.) Their pursuit of CFRP technologies seems to be going in the right direction.
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07-07-2011, 03:36 PM | #25 |
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Ever hear about power to weight ratio? It takes 1000hp for the $1M Veyron to best the $50-$60k Ariel Atom which by the way is incidentally more fun to drive around the track.
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07-07-2011, 03:39 PM | #26 |
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Yes but that's like comparing apples to hotdogs...
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07-07-2011, 03:43 PM | #28 | |
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1:15.1 – Ariel Atom 500 1:16.8 – Bugatti Veyron SS 1:17.1 – Gumpert Apollo 1:17.3 – Ascari A10 1:17.6 – Koenigsegg CCX (with Top Gear Wing) 1:17.7 – Noble M600 (cold) 1:17.8 – Pagani Zonda Roadster F Clubsport 1:17.9 – Caterham Seven R500 (cold tyres) 1:18.3 – Bugatti Veyron 1:18.4 – Pagani Zonda F 1:18.9 – Maserati MC12 1:19.0 – Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SuperVeloce 1:19.0 – Enzo Ferrari 1:19.1 – Ferrari 458 Italia 1:19.5 – Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 1:19.5 – Porsche 997 GT2 1:19.5 – Ariel Atom 2 300 1:19.7 – Nissan GT-R 1:19.7 – Ferrari 430 Scuderia 1:19.8 – Lamborghini Murciélago LP640 |
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07-07-2011, 03:47 PM | #29 |
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Engineering and active suspensions and electronic this and that can help compensate for weight (but also add weight themselves). See the portly GT-R and EVO X as an example. With that said, the same technology in a lighter car will be nimbler. Downside is driving feel and excitement as you let the computer do a lot of the driving. Depends what you care about. That extra 10 mph to 60, that extra 0.05G of lateral grip, or driving feel. Obviously, I'm speaking in generalities, but you get the point.
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07-07-2011, 05:00 PM | #31 | |
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The only cars that seem to be able to get around this are the exotics - and the Vettes, of course. However, we're already starting to see new models shedding a bit of weight compared to their immediate forbears, mostly due to metallurgy. I say thumbs up! Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 07-07-2011 at 05:21 PM.. |
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07-07-2011, 05:19 PM | #33 | |
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However, and overall, smaller and lighter makes for more fun to drive. There don't appear to be any exceptions to this rule. Under some circumstances, you can clearly feel the extra size and girth of the current car compared to the E46, and the same is true when comparing the E46 to the E36, and that car compared to the E30. Using your logic, a 2500 pound M3 with 300 HP will have similar performance to a 5000 pound M3 with 600 HP. That's more or less true, but I guarantee you that, given similar engineering largesse, the 2500 pound car will absolutely feel more nimble in everyday driving - and definitely put more of a grin on your face in the twisties. Bruce |
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07-07-2011, 05:37 PM | #34 | |
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07-07-2011, 06:05 PM | #35 | |
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07-07-2011, 10:13 PM | #36 |
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I think you need to spend more time reading and less time posting.
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07-08-2011, 03:47 AM | #37 |
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07-08-2011, 03:56 AM | #39 |
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07-10-2011, 10:01 AM | #43 | |
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The key to this is to understand is that the tire's "footprint" on the road is a dynamic thing. Even if a given car has a single tire at each axle, wide enough to span the vehicle from side to side, its effective footprint varies. Under high cornering loads, the outside tires "roll under", unweighting the inside edge, and concentrating most of the load on the outside edge - even with properly sized and inflated tires designed for high performance. Any car will place more load per square inch on the outside edge while cornering, but the heavier car will in fact load the outside edge to comparative extreme. The effect is that the rubber, being rubber and not steel, will begin to tear away under the increased load, and under extreme conditions, even begin chunking away. As the conditions continue that section of tread will begin to overheat, leading to reduced traction and that "greasy" feel. At that point, you're getting even more extreme tire wear as well. All cars experience these conditions, but light cars are uniformly kinder to their sneakers - from first lap to last. Bruce |
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07-10-2011, 07:10 PM | #44 |
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