Evolve Tune Review

[Rob S.]

How do you compare it to your FBO N54 with 440whp? Offcourse the feel is totally different but i guess the N54 would still be faster?

I also have a FBO N54 which will be for sale very soon. I am still deciding if i will buy a DCT M3 or a DCT N55 with Pure Stage 2 turbo's (+-500 whp).

I only drove a friends stock MT M3 and to be honest i was not impressed at all compared to my FBO N54. Felt really slow.

[BobS]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

How do you compare it to your FBO N54 with 440whp? Offcourse the feel is totally different but i guess the N54 would still be faster?

I also have a FBO N54 which will be for sale very soon. I am still deciding if i will buy a DCT M3 or a DCT N55 with Pure Stage 2 turbo's (+-500 whp).

I only drove a friends stock MT M3 and to be honest i was not impressed at all compared to my FBO N54. Felt really slow.

If your going to supercharge your M3, get one and never look back. With the price of superchargers these days, its not much more expensive then upgraded turbo's and all the supporting mods you need to get a n55/n54 up to 600+ hp

Take a look at the 1/4 thread... how many 335's do you see on there? http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630463

335's do well on the dyno...thats about it.

[Rob S.]

Originally Posted by BobS

If your going to supercharge your M3, get one and never look back. With the price of superchargers these days, its not much more expensive then upgraded turbo's and all the supporting mods you need to get a n55/n54 up to 600+ hp

Take a look at the 1/4 thread... how many 335's do you see on there? http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630463

335's do well on the dyno...thats about it.

I am sorry but i do not agree with you. 335's also do very well in a straight line. I see enough vids on youtube of RB turbo 335's outrun supercharged M3's. In twisty's 335's will get raped, and probably also in 1/4th mile races, that is true.

A ESS 625 supercharger is what...10k dollar (+ other parts you will need, so more likely will be 12-14k)? For N54 (and now also N55) you can buy RB turbo's for 3k, inlets 500 dollar, DP 300 dollar, IC 400 dollar and software 600 dollar (plus some small parts like lpfp etc)? It is not even close cost wise. And this will get you to +550whp on N54. Also a M3 is way more expensive to buy, so again, cost wise it is a totally different ballpark.

Offcourse a 335i will NEVER be a M3. But a lot of guys like me don't do 1/4th mile races and stuff like that.

Maybe i just need to drive a DCT M3 to change my mind

[BobS]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

I am sorry but i do not agree with you. 335's also do very well in a straight line. I see enough vids on youtube of RB turbo 335's outrun supercharged M3's. In twisty's 335's will get raped, and probably also in 1/4th mile races, that is true.

A ESS 625 supercharger is what...10k dollar (+ other parts you will need, so more likely will be 12-14k)? For N54 (and now also N55) you can buy RB turbo's for 3k, inlets 500 dollar, DP 300 dollar, IC 400 dollar and software 600 dollar (plus some small parts like lpfp etc)? It is not even close cost wise. And this will get you to +550whp on N54. Also a M3 is way more expensive to buy, so again, cost wise it is a totally different ballpark.

Offcourse a 335i will NEVER be a M3. But a lot of guys like me don't do 1/4th mile races and stuff like that.

Maybe i just need to drive a DCT M3 to change my mind

All the records for the 1/4 mile and 60-130's are held by m3's, not 335's. Maybe that will change? I had a FBO 335 and almost went with upgraded turbo's till I saw the light.

Talk to anyone that is honest and the high hp (600+) 335's always seem to have issues.

Ess 625's are $8.5k new, all you need is a exhaust and xpipe and your good to go. Install it and beat on the car with almost zero issues.

For a properly built 335 at or above 600hp you need the following
-tune or custom dyno tuning
-Intercooler
-Oil cooler (unless you already have one, stock is weak though)
-Upgraded turbos / twins or single kits ($3k-8K)
-LSD ($3.5k installed)
-Upgraded clutch (6MT) or built AT (level 10 but is it proven?) ($2k-$8K)
-upgraded brakes
-exhaust
-good wheel/tire combo
-meth kit and/or fuel HPFP/LPFP upgrade (to run e85)
-Expense of all the labor to install all I listed...
and i'm probably forgetting some.
Lets not forget the cosmetic mods to try and make it not look like a 328.

Add it all up and its way closer than you would initially think or dare i say, more expensive?

Also a m3 holds value better, less drama, is better handling/balanced and you'll never get your money back and maybe spend more than the car is worth with the 335 upgrades.

I love the 335... but imo people need to seriously look now that the e9x m3 is 30-40k used and then superchargers have dropped in price.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

How do you compare it to your FBO N54 with 440whp? Offcourse the feel is totally different but i guess the N54 would still be faster?

The N54 would hang with the M3 from a dig till about the 1/4 mile,.....If I used meth, and drag radials from a roll it would be all M3.

Originally Posted by Rob S.

I also have a FBO N54 which will be for sale very soon. I am still deciding if i will buy a DCT M3 or a DCT N55 with Pure Stage 2 turbo's (+-500 whp).

Go M3 DCT FBO + tune. I wouldn't mess with a 500whp N55. I won't even feel at all comfortable going over 8lbs of boost in that thing.

Originally Posted by Rob S.

I only drove a friends stock MT M3 and to be honest i was not impressed at all compared to my FBO N54. Felt really slow.

The DCT really changes the M3's acceleration. And yes, stock they aren't all that impressive compared to an FBO N54. But the power band is much more friendly to running at the track.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by BobS

If your going to supercharge your M3, get one and never look back. With the price of superchargers these days, its not much more expensive then upgraded turbo's and all the supporting mods you need to get a n55/n54 up to 600+ hp

After seeing small cracks in the blocks of supercharged M3's that eventually bled coolant and ended the engine, and looking at the analysis of rod and main bearings from failed engine tear downs, supercharged S65s lost their appeal to me. Don't get me wrong, I've had a ride in an AA SC 6mt M3 at the track, and it was a sweet ride, but since I always air on the side of caution, 7 grand in hardware alone, just to only run 4.5lbs of boost just isn't smart economics to me.

Originally Posted by BobS

Take a look at the 1/4 thread... how many 335's do you see on there? http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630463
335's do well on the dyno...thats about it.

You do know that the N54 ran high 10's on stock turbos back in 2007, before the M3 came out right? The economics of the N54's power potential, not to mention the Hurclulean strength of the motor's internals makes it the best BMW used car bargain ever.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by BobS

All the records for the 1/4 mile and 60-130's are held by m3's, not 335's. Maybe that will change? I had a FBO 335 and almost went with upgraded turbo's till I saw the light.

The 335I held the top speed record at shift sector for many years (164mph), until it was recently beaten by a SC S65. And none of you guys have been able to beat terry's (Burger tuning) good old 135I yet, except drew, when terry was having issues with his tune

Originally Posted by BobS

Talk to anyone that is honest and the high hp (600+) 335's always seem to have issues.

The only issue is running out of fueling options after 780whp. When I left the scene they were figuring out how to piggy back off the piggy backed Low pressure fuel pump. As long as you can pump the fuel, you can see gains. Heck running 18lbs of boost with full E85, and the piggy back pump, sees 500WHP! That's sick, because that's with the stock down pipe, intercooler, and intake! Not even full bolt on. Just a $70 auxilliary fuel pump, and a $300 open source flash tune from Vishnu

Originally Posted by BobS

Ess 625's are $8.5k new, all you need is a exhaust and xpipe and your good to go. Install it and beat on the car with almost zero issues.

Not really. The rod and main bearings, along with the entire bottom end of the motor are a ticking time bomb.

Originally Posted by BobS

For a properly built 335 at or above 600hp you need the following
-tune or custom dyno tuning
-Intercooler
-Oil cooler (unless you already have one, stock is weak though)
-Upgraded turbos / twins or single kits ($3k-8K)
-LSD ($3.5k installed)
-Upgraded clutch (6MT) or built AT (level 10 but is it proven?) ($2k-$8K)
-upgraded brakes
-exhaust
-good wheel/tire combo
-meth kit and/or fuel HPFP/LPFP upgrade (to run e85)
-Expense of all the labor to install all I listed...
and i'm probably forgetting some.
Lets not forget the cosmetic mods to try and make it not look like a 328.

Nope.
Used N54 335I DCT or 6AT 6MT= 9-13K
-K&N air filter
-intercooler
-downpipe
-Piggy back LPFP
-VTT twin turbo
-Cobb tune
-instead of an LSD a pair of Mickey Tompsons
= 10 second 1/4 mile, stomp and go all day, every day for 5K in mods + Installation labour.

Originally Posted by BobS

Add it all up and its way closer than you would initially think or dare i say, more expensive?

Also a m3 holds value better, less drama, is better handling/balanced and you'll never get your money back and maybe spend more than the car is worth with the 335 upgrades.

I love the 335... but imo people need to seriously look now that the e9x m3 is 30-40k used and then superchargers have dropped in price.

You know let me just say this. It's actually very annoying driving my M3 around town. My 335I was a track warrior that struggled to stay cool at the track. However on the rare occations when we were able to keep it cool, and fool the troublesome ecu not to throw false codes on the track, it gave me joy. On the streets, till today, it gets nothing but respect. No one tries to race me. NO ONE. Only got my butt handed to me by a 911 turbo S once, but that was it, and I asked for it. My M3 on the other hand is the exact opposite. Ever tom, dick and harry wants to race me. Of late, it's been GTI's being total jerks. The difference is that these guys have seen all the youtube videos, and know how weak stock M3's are and think they can beat me. I know I can destroy them with my mods, but with the 335I, once they hear my AA exhausts, they don't even try it, because they've seen what we can do, and are embarrassed to loose.

[BobS]

LOL

looks like i've hit a nerve

Just a RB 335 will lose to a 625+ DCT M3. Over 550 whp in a 335 (to start beating SC m3's) requires all that I posted, if you want a safe/proper fast car.

I don't care enough to argue this anymore but where are all the 10 sec 335's? I've seen a lot of dynos... no slips besides shiv's back in the day.

Bottom line is.... the m3 currently holds all e9x records (except dyno's).

You do need a LSD.. again, properly built. Also if you know anything about the n54/n55, you know the auto tranny IS a ticking time bomb and there is no real solution (level 10 is a bandaid, still no real software flash besides alpina for the autotranny). The manual trans can be beefed up but the single mass flywheel is noisy and annoying (i had one).

Yes terry's 135 is awesome, its also not your "run of the mill" 135/335. It has a lot of weight reduction and other work.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by BobS

Just a RB 335 will lose to a 625+ DCT M3. Over 550 whp in a 335 (to start beating SC m3's) requires all that I posted, if you want a safe/proper fast car.

I'm done arguing too because the whole 335I vs M3 thing is a dead horse with maggots. But I will respond to this statement by saying that you really need to compare apples to apples here. The DCT is an unfair advantage so you need to compare that 625 to a 335is. I will say that the 335I's 6AT is probably one of the strongest auto trannys I've ever seen. Mine's still going strong after numerous track events with over 50% more power at 129K miles.

[Rob S.]

Originally Posted by BobS

LOL

looks like i've hit a nerve

Just a RB 335 will lose to a 625+ DCT M3. Over 550 whp in a 335 (to start beating SC m3's) requires all that I posted, if you want a safe/proper fast car.

I don't care enough to argue this anymore but where are all the 10 sec 335's? I've seen a lot of dynos... no slips besides shiv's back in the day.

Bottom line is.... the m3 currently holds all e9x records (except dyno's).

You do need a LSD.. again, properly built. Also if you know anything about the n54/n55, you know the auto tranny IS a ticking time bomb and there is no real solution (level 10 is a bandaid, still no real software flash besides alpina for the autotranny). The manual trans can be beefed up but the single mass flywheel is noisy and annoying (i had one).

Yes terry's 135 is awesome, its also not your "run of the mill" 135/335. It has a lot of weight reduction and other work.

Maybe you should take a look at youtube, lots of RB 335s that hang or kill a M3 625 in roll races.

It is also total BS that you say that all of that is needed to have a proper 335i with RB turbo's. It is WAY cheaper to build a 335i with 550-600whp than a M3 VT625. Really, it is even silly to argue about that.

That being said, the N54 is a bulletproof engine. It handles 500-600whp all day long. I have never seen a motor fail if the tuning was done right. I can't say that about stock SC S65's. Lot's of known failed engines.

The AT is very strong. Offcourse there are some know failures....that isn't weird since the TQ is crazy high. I have no idea if level 10 is bulletproof, but i do believe that Dodson has very reliable clutch packs for DCT costing about 1500 dollar.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

That being said, the N54 is a bulletproof engine.

[BobS]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

Maybe you should take a look at youtube, lots of RB 335s that hang or kill a M3 625 in roll races.

It is also total BS that you say that all of that is needed to have a proper 335i with RB turbo's. It is WAY cheaper to build a 335i with 550-600whp than a M3 VT625. Really, it is even silly to argue about that.

That being said, the N54 is a bulletproof engine. It handles 500-600whp all day long. I have never seen a motor fail if the tuning was done right. I can't say that about stock SC S65's. Lot's of known failed engines.

The AT is very strong. Offcourse there are some know failures....that isn't weird since the TQ is crazy high. I have no idea if level 10 is bulletproof, but i do believe that Dodson has very reliable clutch packs for DCT costing about 1500 dollar.

Cool have fun building your RB 335 then I've seen all the youtube vids.. I've also been to a lot of roll race events on the east coast where no 335's ever show up. But they always post dyno numbers.

Oh and the 1/4 record holder for the e9x chassis isn't a 335, not even close... why is that?

[BobS]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

I'm done arguing too because the whole 335I vs M3 thing is a dead horse with maggots. But I will respond to this statement by saying that you really need to compare apples to apples here. The DCT is an unfair advantage so you need to compare that 625 to a 335is. I will say that the 335I's 6AT is probably one of the strongest auto trannys I've ever seen. Mine's still going strong after numerous track events with over 50% more power at 129K miles.

Agreed

The dodson clutches do work for the DCT, i'd love to see what a 335IS with Dodson clutches can do now!

[Rob S.]

Originally Posted by BobS

Cool have fun building your RB 335 then I've seen all the youtube vids.. I've also been to a lot of roll race events on the east coast where no 335's ever show up. But they always post dyno numbers.

Oh and the 1/4 record holder for the e9x chassis isn't a 335, not even close... why is that?

That is because of the massive TQ high power 335's put down + the lack of DCT. When there will be more high hp DCT 335's and they find a way to get all that TQ to the ground (which i am sure they will very soon) i really believe that you will see a lot of them go deep 10's.

[BobS]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

That is because of the massive TQ high power 335's put down + the lack of DCT. When there will be more high hp DCT 335's and they find a way to get all that TQ to the ground (which i am sure they will very soon)

Ahhh now we are starting to agree on something.

And the only way to get that power down is to get rid of the one tire fire (install a LSD) and invest in the necessary M suspenion parts plus coilovers to allow the car to hook better. You also need to build the trans (DCT, regular auto, 6MT)so you can launch the car properly and not baby it off the line, maybe even install a line lock kit. You also need to buy a good set of lightweight wheels/tires. You should also get a custom tune for boost limiting in the earlier gears or a tq/hp curve that allows the car to hook off the line. But you told me none of that was necessary in your earlier post.

Originally Posted by Rob S.

i really believe that you will see a lot of them go deep 10's.

3 years ago people were waiting and talking about the same results (referencing deep 10's).

[Rob S.]

Originally Posted by BobS

Ahhh now we are starting to agree on something.

And the only way to get that power down is to get rid of the one tire fire (install a LSD) and invest in the necessary M suspenion parts plus coilovers to allow the car to hook better. You also need to build the trans (DCT, regular auto, 6MT)so you can launch the car properly and not baby it off the line, maybe even install a line lock kit. You also need to buy a good set of lightweight wheels/tires. You should also get a custom tune for boost limiting in the earlier gears or a tq/hp curve that allows the car to hook off the line. But you told me none of that was necessary in your earlier post.

3 years ago people were waiting and talking about the same results (referencing deep 10's).

In the beginning i was not even talking about 1/4th mile times, was i? Maybe you should read again because this is useless.

I was just talking about a 600hp 335i that could go fast in a straight line all day long and could probably beat VT625 M3's in a roll race. I NEVER do 1/4th mile racing so i could care less if my car went 10.1 or 11.1.

You are the one that started to talk about 1/4th mile monsters.

And do you really think the M3 doesn't need a good wheel/tyre combo, a good tune, some suspension mods etc to set a record in the 1/4th mile? Offcourse, just slap a VT625 on it, keep the stock wheels and tyres, keep the stock suspension and you will set the all time record in the 1/4th mile! LOL.

[BobS]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

In the beginning i was not even talking about 1/4th mile times, was i? Maybe you should read again because this is useless.

I was just talking about a 600hp 335i that could go fast in a straight line all day long and could probably beat VT625 M3's in a roll race. I NEVER do 1/4th mile racing so i could care less if my car went 10.1 or 11.1.

You are the one that started to talk about 1/4th mile monsters.

And do you really think the M3 doesn't need a good wheel/tyre combo, a good tune, some suspension mods etc to set a record in the 1/4th mile? Offcourse, just slap a VT625 on it, keep the stock wheels and tyres, keep the stock suspension and you will set the all time record in the 1/4th mile! LOL.

1/4 mile time is a good measurement for straight line speed.... no? How would you like to measure it? Butt dyno? Your right I guess its useless, no automobile manufacturers quote it or car mags or ...

Sure the m will need a little more than stock but (yes to wheels/tire and line lock, not suspension), my point is add them up on each side (335 600+hp vs. m3 600+hp), and be honest, its very close.... again, with that fact in mind, which would you rather have?

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

How do you compare it to your FBO N54 with 440whp? Offcourse the feel is totally different but i guess the N54 would still be faster?.

Cliff notes:
335 6MT: Full bolt on's, W/M Injection, race gas, 17psi race map, passenger/rear seat removal, hoosier slicks...holds record for fastest stock turbo non-nitrous 60-130 (8.84 seconds) @ full weight on street trim, 121mph traps on vbox

Camera Car: M3 DCT, Gintani Catless exhaust, MS pulleys, MS stage II intake, OETuning Dynotune, rpi scoops, 100 octane racegas, MT1 rear wheels with Nitto NT555R DR, full weight

M3 DCT runs 12.007@116.15
335i runs 12.397@113.84

M3 DCT reaction time 1.255
335i reaction time .063

335i bogs on 3-4 shift
DCT transmission prevents burnout and only lets LC launch at 3500RPM

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by BobS

1/4 mile time is a good measurement for straight line speed.... no? How would you like to measure it? Butt dyno??

Actually I prefer 1/4 mile mph to indicate which car is faster.

Originally Posted by BobS

my point is add them up on each side (335 600+hp vs. m3 600+hp), and be honest, its very close.... again, with that fact in mind, which would you rather have?

The N54! All the internals and the block, can handle the power with ease. The M3 is naturally aspirated, and was built with that scenario in mind.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

The N54! All the internals and the block, can handle the power with ease. The M3 is naturally aspirated, and was built with that scenario in mind.

Then why have the M3 if you prefer the 335i?

[grantmax]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Then why have the M3 if you prefer the 335i?

Girls. Hot ones.