▀▄ eas | S65 Rod Bearing Replacement: An ongoing "Journal"

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by bigtracing

Finally got some time away from work to work on my car and get up on here to post pictures. So got the motor out and the oil pan off. Found a ton of metal in the pan stuck in the oil pick up it is basically everywhere. In the picture the left bearing and cap is number 8. I put the biggest shaving next to the number 7 cap as a joke and then the one to the right is the number 5. The top and bottom shell was completely missing from #7 except for that little piece of the top shell. Looks like I got decently lucky as far as damage to the rest of the motor goes. The crank seems to be beyond fixing wont know until I get it out. But the top end looks good and no scoring in any of the cylinders.

What are you planning to do? Rebuild stock, or go stroker?

[bigtracing]

leigh- about 1 mile before I pulled over it sounded like a bag was stuck under the car. and then the car started getting hot. so I pulled ovrr and it was ticking pretty bad. shut it down let it cool down and then when I started it back up is when I completely ate the bearing cause you could hear the rod knocking on the crank. it probably started earlier but before it blew up I was crusing with other loud cars and had the music on loud I was on my way to bimmerfest east.

regular guy- going to see if I can either get my crank fix (unlikely) or buy a used one out of a low mile stroker build. have it machined for proper clearances. then reseal the whole motor new rings possibly pistons depending on what they look like. and may have the heads rebuilt not sure. then probably breaking In new rings with rotella or equivalent. then turning to mobil race oil 0-50 and catless. and the lots of oil samples to blackstone. trying to get it done by the end of this month so I can break it in and get some miles on it then drop the pan over the winter and check the new bearings for wear.


my buddy suggested using a oil heater or block heater basically anybody know if those are worth it. sounds like it would work 9 quarts is a lot of oil to heat up so I don't know if it would be worth it.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by bigtracing

my buddy suggested using a oil heater or block heater basically anybody know if those are worth it. sounds like it would work 9 quarts is a lot of oil to heat up so I don't know if it would be worth it.

If the clearance is properly set these things are not needed.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by bigtracing

leigh- about 1 mile before I pulled over it sounded like a bag was stuck under the car. and then the car started getting hot. so I pulled ovrr and it was ticking pretty bad. shut it down let it cool down and then when I started it back up is when I completely ate the bearing cause you could hear the rod knocking on the crank. it probably started earlier but before it blew up I was crusing with other loud cars and had the music on loud I was on my way to bimmerfest east.

regular guy- going to see if I can either get my crank fix (unlikely) or buy a used one out of a low mile stroker build. have it machined for proper clearances. then reseal the whole motor new rings possibly pistons depending on what they look like. and may have the heads rebuilt not sure. then probably breaking In new rings with rotella or equivalent. then turning to mobil race oil 0-50 and catless. and the lots of oil samples to blackstone. trying to get it done by the end of this month so I can break it in and get some miles on it then drop the pan over the winter and check the new bearings for wear.


my buddy suggested using a oil heater or block heater basically anybody know if those are worth it. sounds like it would work 9 quarts is a lot of oil to heat up so I don't know if it would be worth it.

could you please make a post on what u do with your motor and when ur pulling it apart

[bigtracing]

I am going to soon. I'm replacing a lot of parts! and by the looks of everything I'm taking apart these cars have all the same e46 problems (valve cover gaskets, engine mounts, etc all were bad in my car)

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

1) If the oil inability to flow before it has reached operating temperature and the tight clearance design are the factors at play then does it explain the systematic very rough engine starts when the engine was not driven for the last 12 hours (summertime, not a wintertime question) ? By rough, I mean you can feel the engine slightly shaking the whole car in an irregular pattern (not quite bucking but sufficient to seem abnormal) when sitting in the driver's seat for the first 10-12 seconds of the engine idling or is that normal for a V8 ?

2) if increasing clearance solves the problem why didn't bmw start machining the crankshaft for bigger journals clearance for MY '10, '11, '12, '13 ? Is it because it would make them liable for a recall on all early MYs sold ? At least that tells us they expect the cost of all later MYs failure under warranty to cost them less than an official fix in mid production years and recalling all earlier MY's to machine the crankshafts. How far could this be from reality ?

That shaking is your A/C. This has fooled me a couple of times when I've started the car this summer. Very subtle; seems like a rough running engine until I turn off the compressor and everything smooths out. Only happens when I first start the car.

[V8FunNaturally]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

That shaking is your A/C. This has fooled me a couple of times when I've started the car this summer. Very subtle; seems like a rough running engine until I turn off the compressor and everything smooths out. Only happens when I first start the car.

That appears to make sense. Until now, I've always started the car with the A/C ON and kept it ON. The engine bay would run smooth after these first 10-12 seconds. I realize A/C units sitting outside buildings also start very rough then get smoother. I will try with A/C off when I get the car re-delivered in the US.

[aus]

Is there any way to increase oil pressure to the last 2 sets of bearings? It seems they're the ones that are worn down the most on many of these threads.

.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by aus

Is there any way to increase oil pressure to the last 2 sets of bearings? It seems they're the ones that are worn down the most on many of these threads.

.

Hopefully I'll show you a set of bearings in the next day or two that is equal opportunity destroyers. #1 looks fine, but #5 (same journal) doesn't. Same for #2 vs. #6. #3, #7 are equally bad, and I can't remember off the top of my head the difference between #4 and #8.

[aus]

Originally Posted by regular guy

Hopefully I'll show you a set of bearings in the next day or two that is equal opportunity destroyers. #1 looks fine, but #5 (same journal) doesn't. Same for #2 vs. #6. #3, #7 are equally bad, and I can't remember off the top of my head the difference between #4 and #8.

Look forward to the pics. I know what you mean with equal opportunity destruction, but it just seems the engines with early damage, the #7 and #8 seem to be the worse of the bunch- at least early on.

I'm still hoping for aftermarket shells that will give more clearance.
Why the hell would BMW make the SAME MISTAKE in the S85 and S65 as they did in the S54, where they had to do a recall???

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[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by aus

Look forward to the pics. I know what you mean with equal opportunity destruction, but it just seems the engines with early damage, the #7 and #8 seem to be the worse of the bunch- at least early on.

I'm still hoping for aftermarket shells that will give more clearance.
Why the hell would BMW make the SAME MISTAKE in the S85 and S65 as they did in the S54, where they had to do a recall???

.

The S54 situation has absolutely nothing in common with the S85/S65.

There are a whole host of reasons why the design clearance ended up at these values as has been discussed over and over herein.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by bigtracing

I am going to soon. I'm replacing a lot of parts! and by the looks of everything I'm taking apart these cars have all the same e46 problems (valve cover gaskets, engine mounts, etc all were bad in my car)

what kind of build you going to do?

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

The S54 situation has absolutely nothing in common with the S85/S65.

There are a whole host of reasons why the design clearance ended up at these values as has been discussed over and over herein.

NOT TRUE, the issues with the S54 do have a common tie with with the S65/S85...... The S54 was built tight too, as are most BMW engines. Adjusting clearance on the S54 will definitely help the bearing issues in that engine too!

[bigtracing]

leigh
going oem. Don't have the cash to do a stroker as much as I would love to. going to have the clearances set looser then oem, rings and replace every wear item. once it goes back together I'm going to have it tuned with a improved cold start redline and do some other various things .

[Chrishkm5]

Originally Posted by bigtracing

leigh
going oem. Don't have the cash to do a stroker as much as I would love to. going to have the clearances set looser then oem, rings and replace every wear item. once it goes back together I'm going to have it tuned with a improved cold start redline and do some other various things .

Have you found a place to do your rebuild as I'm currently looking for one too for my m5 v10 engine

Chris

[bigtracing]

chris
my father has built a lot of motors and is certified in a lot of different fields of mechanics. so he is going to do the rebuild. other then the machine work.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by bigtracing

chris
my father has built a lot of motors and is certified in a lot of different fields of mechanics. so he is going to do the rebuild. other then the machine work.

It's all doable with standard tools except cam timing and bed plate sealant. Cam timing requires special tools, and bed plate sealant does too, but for the latter you could probably use a toothpaste squeezer if I remember correctly. But cam timing tools are a must.

[bigtracing]

yea I have been reading through the stuff I downloaded of tis nothing looks out the ordinary really

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

NOT TRUE, the issues with the S54 do have a common tie with with the S65/S85...... The S54 was built tight too, as are most BMW engines. Adjusting clearance on the S54 will definitely help the bearing issues in that engine too!

What are the actual details on the E46 clearances, per and post bearing recall? I wasn't aware that it was a simple clearance issue that was fixed by bearing clearances being opened up...guess I got caught up in the rhetoric at the time of it being a "bearing problem" and assumed it was a material issue or manufacturing issue as BMW implied.

One way the S65/S85 has no tie to the S54 is that the S54 cars were blowing up right and left and at very low mileage. There was such a large group of engines blowing that BMW blamed owners at first for overrevving, etc, then SMG cars were also blowing up, and about that time I recall Jim Conforti stepping in with the machine code details of how the DME records "overrevs" which in fact showed a gaping hole in BMWNA's rev claims (i.e. I think it recorded the total time spent over 7800rpms when redline was 8k).

[tom @ eas]

Going to inspect bearings on a low-mileage 2011 M3 this week (shop M3 @ ~18K). Hopefully, findings will be much more favorable than the last inspection.

Here's a copy of the last Blackstone report:



Torco Accelerator (octane booster) has been used in the past, which may explain the "additive" in the report notes.

[W///]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Going to inspect bearings on a low-mileage 2011 M3 this week (shop M3 @ ~18K). Hopefully, findings will be much more favorable than the last inspection.

Here's a copy of the last Blackstone report:



Torco Accelerator (octane booster) has been used in the past, which may explain the "additive" in the report notes.

My 72k mile report just came back, and it looks better than this, with x4 the mileage. Copper = 2, Lead = 8

It'd be very interesting to see what the bearings look like.

[Wendall]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Going to inspect bearings on a low-mileage 2011 M3 this week (shop M3 @ ~18K). Hopefully, findings will be much more favorable than the last inspection.

Here's a copy of the last Blackstone report:



Torco Accelerator (octane booster) has been used in the past, which may explain the "additive" in the report notes.

I'm ready to see the results!