NEW BMW M3 GTS -- Official specs, press releases, photos and video

[swamp2]

Wow, it is indeed amazing how polarizing this car is. I'm still leaning on the not so impressed side.

Originally Posted by bayerischeperformance

I tend to agree with rldzhao and disagree with you and seriousm3. Surely the M engineers are not stealing forum ideas. The way to turn the standard car into something like this GTS is obvious and that approach will be close whether or not you are an M engineer or a DIY modder. The only parts of the car that offer any significant value over a modding approach are the splitter/wing and shocks/struts and that value is quite minimal. The aero components likely had some good CFD and track testing done, similarly on the shock valving - well vetted by top notch drivers on the track. Sure you can make the argument that the results of this effort by BMW is much greater than the sum of the parts but it simply isn't. There are no distinguishable synergies with the brakes, seats, exhaust, wheels, etc. You can build this car yourself and have it completely down to a knifes edge drivers race difference between yours and the GTS for WAY WAY WAY less money. Furthermore I know it is not all smply about money, it is about having the complete package from the factory, the color the prestige, perhaps a warranty, etc. However, one of my most important metrics is bang for the buck and here the car is not much to get too excited about.

I do realize the very hazy nature of NRing times but I'm darn curious where this car is going to end up. I suppose, despite being a quite underwhelmed by the car and announcement I should put my money where my mouth is and make a time prediction...

[jworms]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Wow, it is indeed amazing how polarizing this car is. I'm still leaning on the not so impressed side.



I tend to agree with rldzhao and disagree with you and seriousm3. Surely the M engineers are not stealing forum ideas. The way to turn the standard car into something like this GTS is obvious and that approach will be close whether or not you are an M engineer or a DIY modder. The only parts of the car that offer any significant value over a modding approach are the splitter/wing and shocks/struts and that value is quite minimal. The aero components likely had some good CFD and track testing done, similarly on the shock valving - well vetted by top notch drivers on the track. Sure you can make the argument that the results of this effort by BMW is much greater than the sum of the parts but it simply isn't. There are no distinguishable synergies with the brakes, seats, exhaust, wheels, etc. You can build this car yourself and have it completely down to a knifes edge drivers race difference between yours and the GTS for WAY WAY WAY less money. Furthermore I know it is not all smply about money, it is about having the complete package from the factory, the color the prestige, perhaps a warranty, etc. However, one of my most important metrics is bang for the buck and here the car is not much to get too excited about.

I do realize the very hazy nature of NRing times but I'm darn curious where this car is going to end up. I suppose, despite being a quite underwhelmed by the car and announcement I should put my money where my mouth is and make a time prediction...

from the other thread:

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

At first, nothing excited me about the M3 GTS. But after reading this, I changed my mind. To me, this looks awesome. This information came by way of the AutoWeek article linked above.

Other changes include a larger carbon-fiber intake manifold, reworked throttle-body butterflies, a stiffer crankcase and revisions to the sump to provide more reliable oil scavenging at high cornering speeds. No specific output was revealed, but peak power is claimed to have increased by about 30 hp over the standard M3, taking it up to 450 hp and providing the M3 GTS with a power-to-weight ratio of 300 hp per ton.

The increased power is channeled through a beefed-up version of the M Division's seven-speed, dual-clutch Drivelogic transmission with remote shift paddles similar to those found on the standard M3. The Getrag-engineered unit is modified with ratios unique to the GTS, more resilient clutch plates and altered software mapping--all aimed at reducing shift times and providing even more aggressive action in manual mode.

The M3's electronic differential has been tweaked for greater lockup on overrun, while the dynamic stability control receives revised software mapping designed specifically for competition use.

still think it would be easy to make a normal M3 into a GTS?

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I'm still leaning on the not so impressed side.

I'm definitely on the not impressed side . With no creature comforts, who the heck would buy this car even if available here? It's basically a race car, with the corresponding price tag. Only a few multi-millionaire BMW fans IMO.

[BarryC]

Originally Posted by southlight

I just looked at the US press page. Unfortunately, it states:

"Information from editor: *Information only; This model is not currently planned for the North American market"


Best regards,
south

If they build it - I will buy. So BMWNA, if you're montioring this thread - here's one customer in the US market....

BC

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by BarryC

If they build it - I will buy. So BMWNA, if you're montioring this thread - here's one customer in the US market....

BC

They're not listening Barry!

[SS32]

Seriously, it's ridiculous that they don't send it here. Is it really not worth their time?

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by SS32

Seriously, it's ridiculous that they don't send it here. Is it really not worth their time?

Blame the U.S. government. (DOT, NHTSA, EPA)

Their restrictive importing rules (and bureaucratic red tape), make it difficult for us to get these cars.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Blame the U.S. government. (DOT, NHTSA, EPA)

Their restrictive importing rules (and bureaucratic red tape), make it difficult for us to get these cars.

[BarryC]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

They're not listening Barry!

I know but I'm still holding out hope....

I guess I could say f*ck it and go buy a GT3RS and call it a day....

[torres]

Here's a small review of the 2010 BMW M3 GTS, including the original press release and some pictures of the coupe.



"The car is fitted with a 7-speed M dual clutch transmission with adapted shift characteristics. But an absolute highlight is to be found under the bonnet. Exclusively for the BMW M3 GTS, the engine builders of BMW M..."

Here's the whole article:
2010 BMW M3 GTS

And also the picture gallery:
2010 BMW M3 GTS pictures

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by jworms

from the other thread:


still think it would be easy to make a normal M3 into a GTS?

They don't get it.

As more details about this car are released, like what you posted. Some people are going to look like idiots.


The fact that some think you can duplicate this car in your garage with bolt-ons, IS A COMPLETE JOKE.


Look at members KonigsTiger car, that is was is needed to run with the GTS around a track. That car is not cheap either.

Get real people. Let all the technical specs be released, before you look like complete fools.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

They don't get it.

As more details about this car are released, like what you posted. Some people are going to look like idiots.


The fact that some think you can duplicate this car in your garage with bolt-ons, IS A COMPLETE JOKE.


Look at members KonigsTiger car, that is was is needed to run with the GTS around a track. That car is not cheap either.

Get real people. Let all the technical specs be released, before you look like complete fools.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making conclusions based on the available information at any given time. As the information evolves so will the opinions of those willing to remain objective.

That being said...

• CF intake manifold: Who cares - mostly jewelry. It is the hp that matters and 450 is not a big bump, period.
• Stiffer crankcase: Ho hum, might provide a smidge of reliability long term, maybe not
• Inproved lubrication: The system is already track capable. Perhaps BMW decided it really HAD to have an improvement here. It certainly is not less weight nor more power
• DCT mods: Sure altered ratios might be good for some real performance. Other than that the unit is brilliant as is
• Diff mods: Yes, good, will provide an infinitesimal improvement in cornering
• DSC remap: Almost for sure good for fun but not making the car faster

Indeed these things will make it more and more difficult to "reproduce" this car by modding. However, that is not the ultimate goal, being faster is the goal and that will still be something easily accomplished with run of the mill mods.

[SS32]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Blame the U.S. government. (DOT, NHTSA, EPA)

Their restrictive importing rules (and bureaucratic red tape), make it difficult for us to get these cars.

We have the GT3 RS. Surely, BMW could get the car here if they wanted.

[footie]

Swamp,

Everything about this car is geared towards the track, that is everything apart from the engine.

Think about it. The brakes (finally proper multi piston units front and rear), the suspension (fully adjustable), wing and splitter (again fully adjustable), seats and seat beats (6 point), gearbox (shortened ratios for acceleration), all improvement for the track. But the engine, if this was to be a true racing engine for competition then the capacity would have dropped not increased, put more meat around the cylinder to allow for increased cooling and promote a higher rev limit, plus make it peakier. No what we have here is an engine that I bet any money is a superior road engine than the present M3 one.

P.S.
The DSC remap I think you will find that this will be a lot more use than the current MDM and will prove to be quicker, well for 90% of drivers.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by footie

Swamp,

Everything about this car is geared towards the track, that is everything apart from the engine.

Think about it. The brakes (finally proper multi piston units front and rear), the suspension (fully adjustable), wing and splitter (again fully adjustable), seats and seat beats (6 point), gearbox (shortened ratios for acceleration), all improvement for the track. But the engine, if this was to be a true racing engine for competition then the capacity would have dropped not increased, put more meat around the cylinder to allow for increased cooling and promote a higher rev limit, plus make it peakier. No what we have here is an engine that I bet any money is a superior road engine than the present M3 one.

uhhh no. just no.

[aus]

Originally Posted by SS32

We have the GT3 RS. Surely, BMW could get the car here if they wanted.

I know what you're saying but the Porsche customer is different than the BMW customer. The M customer is a VERY small part of BMW's market... unfortunately. Then, they'd be going after an ever smaller share of the M market, unless you think they could actually pull from the GT3/GT3RS market?



Anyone know how many GT3-RS's Porsche sells a year? Or how many GT3's?

Anyone know if it'll have MDM since there's no iDrive?

Did they relocated the power steering pump away from the headers? Or will owner's still need to drain some fluid before going to the track?

Sorry if it's been answered, I've read most of this thread, but not all of it.

[BMWCadet]

Originally Posted by swamp2

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making conclusions based on the available information at any given time. As the information evolves so will the opinions of those willing to remain objective.

That being said...

• CF intake manifold: Who cares - mostly jewelry. It is the hp that matters and 450 is not a big bump, period.
• Stiffer crankcase: Ho hum, might provide a smidge of reliability long term, maybe not
• Inproved lubrication: The system is already track capable. Perhaps BMW decided it really HAD to have an improvement here. It certainly is not less weight nor more power
• DCT mods: Sure altered ratios might be good for some real performance. Other than that the unit is brilliant as is
• Diff mods: Yes, good, will provide an infinitesimal improvement in cornering
• DSC remap: Almost for sure good for fun but not making the car faster

Indeed these things will make it more and more difficult to "reproduce" this car by modding. However, that is not the ultimate goal, being faster is the goal and that will still be something easily accomplished with run of the mill mods.

I do not want to get into an argument with you, but if the displacement has been raised from 4.0l to 4.4l, do you really think the increase is a mere 36hp? Sounds to me like another case of a car with underrated power.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by BMWCadet

I do not want to get into an argument with you, but if the displacement has been raised from 4.0l to 4.4l, do you really think the increase is a mere 36hp? Sounds to me like another case of a car with underrated power.

+1

it's definitely interesting to see the wording that BMW is choosing to describe the power output of this car:

"with a capacity of 4.4 litres and an output of some 450 bhp"

it would not surprise me in the least if this thing puts out more than that. not to forget seriousm3's point of overall hp gain throughout the rev range.

[Evice]

$172.000...ughghgh

Hope they are not gonna try to sell it here in USA for that much while GT3 RS is listed $132k

[r53s65e90]

power = (420PS * 4.4) / 4 = 462PS

power/liter should at least stay the same for bragging purposes

[Green///Hell]

I bet I could take this car with an SC and more aggressive track setup....well at least its would be drivers


But in all seriousness tho I would be happy and way impressed if they not only change the steering pinion and feel and get rid of the electronic BS assist as well as give an upgrade to the power steering pump

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Evice

$172.000...ughghgh

Hope they are not gonna try to sell it here in USA for that much while GT3 RS is listed $132k

No, it would not be that much in the US. But, most likely, we will never find out how much it would be, because BMWNA doesn't insist on getting the top product.