BMWNA's Larry Koch answers why no M3 GTS for U.S. and speaks about ZCP Competition M3

[spicoli024]

I understand the cost risk for BMW from a business stand point now, sure; but I fail to see why BMW does not keep the US, or other countries for that matter, in mind when building their special production vehicles from the beginning. I feel as though combined sales from countries outside Germany would make enough profit to be worthwhile. Sure it is GT3 price range, but not even attempting to export to the US is forfeiting a market where there are M enthusiasts willing and able to pay top dollar for something "new" that is not a GT3 but on the same level.

And the competition package, really? What a joke. It is just something to keep us talking about BMW. Look at this new package BMW is offering compared to what was offered on the e46, now that was actually worth the money.

[Cdnrockies]

$110K Euros currently works out to about $153K US. Makes the standard models seem like a complete bargain.

[MI6]

What's more surprising to me is no HP bump for the 011's. With the overboost on the 335is up to 360-370 I'm disappointed the M3 didn't get a little bump as well.......

[duk]

If u build it in small enough quantities to keep it at a certain price point that is not too rediculous (100kish) then it will sell in the US. There will be a few dozen people that can and will shell out the money for it. Porsche can do this, M division can too.

[aus]

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

so how does porsche import the GT3 RS?

don't they have problems?

That's what I keep saying. Porsche has all kinds of niche, low volume cars with special engine that get certified here. The bumper height excuse and airbag excuse are crap. The engineering and manufacturing are already done for a US bumper- again Porsche does it all the time. Even without the engine, they could have done a blue-printed engine like in the E36 M3 Competition or what ever it was called way back then.
Lighten the car, give us the coil-overs, brakes, body kit, wheels and alcantara steering wheel with an airbag that BMW already has available. It shouldn't cost 50% more for such a car. If you think about it, other than the coilover and brakes, it shouldn't cost BMW much at all to make such a car, particularly if they didn't change the engine at all.

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Make the 4.4L motor available. That's what people want.

People want a 4.6L... BLOWN!!

[leeor]

someones gonna import it ... someone rich

[///RedlineCars]

Originally Posted by McLuVan

that's right
bmw is already having a hard time selling regular M3's at 60-75k
bringing over a 100k+ one?
sike

i have to dissagree with you. i dont think BMW is having a hard time sellin M3s....well at least in LA. i see so many M3s. way more then C63, RS4, and ISF conbined. but i might be wrong cuz i'm only saying in Los Angeles area

[southlight]

Originally Posted by aajami

Arvin Meritor makes the GTS exhaust.

This isn't set in stone yet. The prototypes actually were fitted with Arvin Meritor exhausts. BMW has also been talking with Akrapovic about this, however. So it's possible that the exhaust for the production GTS comes from Akrapovic. I don't know if they made the final decision on this already. Maybe Michael or Ralf have some more information.

Originally Posted by aajami

Where did you hear that BMW is going to release individual GTS parts?

He heard it from BMW NA: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338779


Best regards,
south

[mkoesel]

I wish he would have addressed whether the GTS is equipped with non-MDrive-dependent MDM. That is the most interesting thing about the car to me.

As for the EDC and MDM programming for the ZCP, I am back to being confused again. I give up on that until the car is released.

[PIMP "E"]

they just think it wont sell.

[e46e92love]

I'm thankful for the explanation, as even though the explanation was something we assumed to be the reasons, its still nice to hear straight from the horse's mouth.

I really appreciate when BMW opens up its doors like this and just comes out with frankness and straight honesty, even when we don't like the answers.

Cheers,
e46e92

[FSHNGRY]

I think once someone on the forum gets a hold of an m3 w the comp. Package, and drives it an gives us their opinion on it, we can't really rip into BMW for not going above and beyond w that package. Like most of you have said, 65-75k for an m3 is already kind of steep. Imagine if they put the bbk and seats and charged an extra 10. That's 2 yr old Porsche turbo money....

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Make the 4.4L motor available. That's what people want.

That is what is needed to make M3 a more well rounded car. It does extremely well in the handling department already beating all the other cars in the handling department convincingly. It is already the lightest car in the class. Giving it more handling almost makes no sense. Now with performance package on C63 and upcoming RS5, it is the power that will severly start lagging behind the competition so all it needs it more power and torque to balance it out more relative to the competition.

The 4.4 Liter engine putting out 450 - 460 HP is the perfect answer. It will also put M3 way out of the league of a 335. I think it would be the perfect swan song for the N/A high revving race-derived M engines ending the chapter on a high note and a suitable farewell forever.

[///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by GoTTaLoVeBiMMeR

i have to dissagree with you. i dont think BMW is having a hard time sellin M3s....well at least in LA. i see so many M3s. way more then C63, RS4, and ISF conbined. but i might be wrong cuz i'm only saying in Los Angeles area

Where I'm at in Los Angeles I see more C63s and hardly any M3s or IS Fs.

[mkoesel]

Speaking of the 4.4L motor, does anyone know the bore size? If it retains the 92mm bore from the 4L motor, the stroke should be about 82.7mm (like the old N62B44). If it has a larger bore, then it would have a shorter stroke. Its relevant because the longer stroke will generally have a direct impact on the longevity or durability of the motor. Of course, with a 98mm bore spacing, the S65 doesn't have much space for a bigger bore. Probably 94mm would be it about it (similar to the S62) and then you run into potential issues with too little cylinder material combined with the high RPM.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

so how does porsche import the GT3 RS?

don't they have problems?

There is a $54,000 difference between a Carrera and a GT3 RS by the way. That's the way Porsche does it.

IMO, Porsche is in another planet compared with BMW in pricing and the way they sell cars and making a buck or two. Just this week Car and Driver compared a Panamera with a Quattroporte and the 750i... the Panamera had $40,000 is options for this comparo.

Let me say that again: $40,000 in options.

WTF?

When you can butter up cars in your line up like that then bringing the GT3 RS is nothing, as you make up your federalization and performance modification costs with the triple whammy of having an established model with most of the crash tests already done and paid for, a major bump in the standard price and tens of thousand of dollars in options. Just sell a couple of hundred vehicles and that's at least $10 million bucks and change before options...

[footie]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

That is what is needed to make M3 a more well rounded car. It does extremely well in the handling department already beating all the other cars in the handling department convincingly. It is already the lightest car in the class. Giving it more handling almost makes no sense. Now with performance package on C63 and upcoming RS5, it is the power that will severly start lagging behind the competition so all it needs it more power and torque to balance it out more relative to the competition.

The 4.4 Liter engine putting out 450 - 460 HP is the perfect answer. It will also put M3 way out of the league of a 335. I think it would be the perfect swan song for the N/A high revving race-derived M engines ending the chapter on a high note and a suitable farewell forever.

You think the handling of the standard car is perfectly acceptable to compete, I think you might be surprised by the RS5. There is no doubting that a bit more power would be also acceptable but if that had indeed being on offer then what would the need have been for the GTS?

The simple truth is that I believe the current M3 and RS5 will be equally matched on the handling department, the competition package will hopefully give it back the slight edge it has always had and thus keep it competitive until the new FI M3 arrives 2013 (at the latest).

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Speaking of the 4.4L motor, does anyone know the bore size? If it retains the 92mm bore from the 4L motor, the stroke should be about 82.7mm (like the old N62B44).

That's what I read, but don't remember the source. As you said, bore is pretty much maxed out on this block if you want to retain durability (especially with more power).
What was strange to me is retaining the same redline with a longer stroke; not good for durability IMO, even with beefier materials. That's exactly how the other stroker motors are built (same bore, longer stroke), correct? I'm not interested in a 4.4L liter at all, but am curious now if these 'stroker' motors can be as reliable as the stocker, even with all their forged components. Hopefully an expert will chime in .

[michaeldorian]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Make the 4.4L motor available. That's what people want.

YES! That is actually all I care about from the GTS. Coming on BMW. I have a weird feeling they will pull this out of the bag during the last production year.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by southlight

This isn't set in stone yet. The prototypes actually were fitted with Arvin Meritor exhausts. BMW has also been talking with Akrapovic about this, however. So it's possible that the exhaust for the production GTS comes from Akrapovic. I don't know if they made the final decision on this already. Maybe Michael or Ralf have some more information.


He heard it from BMW NA: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338779


Best regards,
south

South, last I had heard Arvin Mentor might not be able to hit the production time-line so it looked like Akrapovic was going to step in.... I have not heard anything further; for all we know they could both be building it to spec.

[ezt]

Gonna be off the topic a bit.

So how is it illegal for a car being too low, but the pickup trucks raised to 15ft high (for non-commercial and non-public transportation reason) blinding me with eye-level lights, running over me cuz i'm in his/her massive blind spots, and blowing carbon monoxide into my window be LEGAL?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by ezt

Gonna be off the topic a bit.

So how is it illegal for a car being too low, but the pickup trucks raised to 15ft high (for non-commercial and non-public transportation reason) blinding me with eye-level lights, running over me cuz i'm in his/her massive blind spots, and blowing carbon monoxide into my window be LEGAL?

The answer, I believe, is that they are classed as trucks not cars. Trucks do not have the same safety requirements as cars.

Now does that make any sense to pedestrians or those of us on the same road with Bubba as his "monster truck"? No. But that's what special interests, lobbying, and politics delivers.