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[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by kmarei

if it makes no difference then why doesn't the car come with 245 in the back?
would make it better in the rain
and why do the M cars come with wider rubber than the lower end models?
that applies to most brands actually, not just BMW

based on my experience
wider tires = more grip
and wider tires means i can use a lower psi which means bigger contact patch
so instead of 33/35psi i can maybe use 31/33
also more comfortable

I'm talking about for Winter driving condtions. The shape of the contact patch is different, but not its area, depending on tire width. And it's well-known that for rain or snow a longer, narrower patch is better than shorter and wider. Improved transient response is big reason for wider, lower profile tires as well, which is of less importance in extreme conditions.

[serven7]

Originally Posted by MMMazing07

on your window sticker there is a disclaimer that "summer" tires should not be driven below freezing temps.

This has got to be one of the stupidest threads of all times!!! You crashed your car in the winters cold and you blame it on your summer tires? Then another 20 of you chime in and talk about how PS2s suck in sub freezing? Go to tire rack and read it for yourself "max performance summer".

[Adonislike]

Originally Posted by serven7

This has got to be one of the stupidest threads of all times!!! You crashed your car in the winters cold and you blame it on your summer tires? Then another 20 of you chime in and talk about how PS2s suck in sub freezing? Go to tire rack and read it for yourself "max performance summer".

LMFAO!!!

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by serven7

This has got to be one of the stupidest threads of all times!!! You crashed your car in the winters cold and you blame it on your summer tires? Then another 20 of you chime in and talk about how PS2s suck in sub freezing? Go to tire rack and read it for yourself "max performance summer".

60 degree weather is not winter weather
i have driven these tires between 40-60 degrees (which according to the BMW manual is within their range)
and they have slipped in all conditions
wet, dry everything
we can't all drive it in california or florida to maintain 80 degree and above weather

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by kmarei

60 degree weather is not winter weather
i have driven these tires between 40-60 degrees (which according to the BMW manual is within their range)
and they have slipped in all conditions
wet, dry everything
we can't all drive it in california or florida to maintain 80 degree and above weather

45 and above, they are perfectly fine. If you have them slipping in 50-60, that I'm going to say is driving style more than the tire. The tire is excellent in the wet and normal temps. One of the best tires I've used. How do you find them slipping at 60??

[serven7]

Originally Posted by kmarei

60 degree weather is not winter weather

It is to me.

Originally Posted by kmarei

i have driven these tires between 40-60 degrees (which according to the BMW manual is within their range)
and they have slipped in all conditions
wet, dry everything

Have you ever consider that 400+ hp motor????

Originally Posted by kmarei

we can't all drive it in california or florida to maintain 80 degree and above weather

Really? look 4 inches to your left genius and you will find I dont live in California or Florida. I live in a mystical land where we drive summer tires all year because its warm enough to let us but you dont catch me posting retarded post like why doest my defroster work when its 120 degrees out.

[Adonislike]

Originally Posted by serven7

It is to me.



Have you ever consider that 400+ hp motor????



Really? look 4 inches to your left genius and you will find I dont live in California or Florida. I live in a mystical land where we drive summer tires all year because its warm enough to let us but you dont catch me posting retarded post like why doest my defroster work when its 120 degrees out.

OMG Damn Serven!!

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by urbo73

45 and above, they are perfectly fine. If you have them slipping in 50-60, that I'm going to say is driving style more than the tire. The tire is excellent in the wet and normal temps. One of the best tires I've used. How do you find them slipping at 60??

+1. Of course you can MAKE them slip. That's where a modicum of driving skill comes into play. If the temps are below 45 or so, you just have to adjust your expectations.

To those of us in not so exteme areas (we get snow 2-3 times per year), it's not worth the investment in Winter tires in some cases. I've got snows on my ML and just use that when it's super crappy. For wet or dry condition at any temperature I haven't had any issues with the PS2s.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by urbo73

45 and above, they are perfectly fine. If you have them slipping in 50-60, that I'm going to say is driving style more than the tire. The tire is excellent in the wet and normal temps. One of the best tires I've used. How do you find them slipping at 60??

it seems that's the standard reply to any criticism of the car
"driving style"
that same driving style didn't cause problems in the other cars i have owned

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by serven7

It is to me.



Have you ever consider that 400+ hp motor????



Really? look 4 inches to your left genius and you will find I dont live in California or Florida. I live in a mystical land where we drive summer tires all year because its warm enough to let us but you dont catch me posting retarded post like why doest my defroster work when its 120 degrees out.

frankly, i couldn't care less what winter weather means to you
according to the engineers who built the car
above 40 degrees is where the tires perform in their recommended range

if there is too much power for the tires, then you agree with me that the car is under-tired

i never implied you lived in florida or california
any ASSumption there was purely you overworking your small mind
and if you live in Hawai then why don't you stay out of topics about weather conditions you can't fathom?

and judging by this post
i would fully expect you to post a restarted post

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

+1. Of course you can MAKE them slip. That's where a modicum of driving skill comes into play. If the temps are below 45 or so, you just have to adjust your expectations.

To those of us in not so exteme areas (we get snow 2-3 times per year), it's not worth the investment in Winter tires in some cases. I've got snows on my ML and just use that when it's super crappy. For wet or dry condition at any temperature I haven't had any issues with the PS2s.

i wasn't trying to make them slip
i know i can get any car to slip under the right conditions
but i meant they slip in situations where i don't normally think a car would slip
like driving in a straight lined in third gear when i want to accelerate fast
if i always have to feather the gas pedal
kind of defeats the purpose of having 414hp
and i don't even drive with the power button enabled
so i don't exactly mash the throttle pedal

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by kmarei

it seems that's the standard reply to any criticism of the car
"driving style"
that same driving style didn't cause problems in the other cars i have owned

Sometimes conditions and factors overlap and surprise you. If you had DSC off and it was cold, you hit some low friction pavement, etc., there are may factors that could cause the issue you had. From the bulk of the response I have seen, and in my own opinion, the tires are not a sole culprit. I would never turn DSC off in low friction conditions on the street.

[CodeRed]

Why would you turn DSC off in true cold conditions...at the track of course, but on the street it makes no sense??

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by kmarei

it seems that's the standard reply to any criticism of the car
"driving style"
that same driving style didn't cause problems in the other cars i have owned

If all replies to your complaints about "the car" point to people saying "driving style", maybe that means something....A good driver can make any car break traction and make any car smooth. The latter I learned while getting my SCCA license and then in Formula Ford racing years ago. Those are very, very unforgiving cars. If you are not smooth, they break traction very fast and in a very unpredictable way as well. Street cars are extremely predictable, have huge slip angles, etc.

The car is not "under-tired" and 414HP is not an issue for me. I don't have the issue, and I drive it hard (but very smooth), MDM on for street and DSC OFF for track. It's driving style - believe me. Or don't. I give up! What other cars did you driven prior to the M3?

[serven7]

Originally Posted by kmarei

if there is too much power for the tires, then you agree with me that the car is under-tired

No the car isnt under-tired. Any car on any tire can break em loose its just a matter of physics.

Originally Posted by kmarei

i never implied you lived in florida or california
any ASSumption there was purely you overworking your small mind
and if you live in Hawai then why don't you stay out of topics about weather conditions you can't fathom?

Once again look 4 inches to your left I live in AZ as I told you in the previous post. Yes your right I should stay out of topics that I know nothing about but you should too, this should be a real eye opener for you that some guy in Arizona(or Hawaii) is telling you about cold weather driving.

Originally Posted by kmarei

and judging by this post
i would fully expect you to post a restarted post

Well, arent you a grammatical genius! If you are going to call me a retard spell it right, retard and while your at it use spell check. I find it funny that you think Im the retard and let me tell you why. Here is a list of signs of mental retardation.

* Delays in oral language development
You cant write or spell to save your life so you probably cant speak very well. You fit this criteria.

* Deficits in memory skills
Only one post ago I told you I live in AZ and you couldnt remember that, criteria 2 met.

*Delays in the development of adaptive behaviors such as self-help or self-care skills
You obviously check the box here with your inability to learn how to drive and not "slip" around.


Ok so now that we got that out of the way lets get on to the topic at hand my "restarted post".

Your wrong Im right, Your dumb Im smart, Your ugly Im good looking...and so on and so on does this meet your requirement for a retarded post or should I go start a thread asking where the spare tire is?

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Sometimes conditions and factors overlap and surprise you. If you had DSC off and it was cold, you hit some low friction pavement, etc., there are may factors that could cause the issue you had. From the bulk of the response I have seen, and in my own opinion, the tires are not a sole culprit. I would never turn DSC off in low friction conditions on the street.

i never turn off DSC
it has only been activated when i really needed it
i think its setup nicely by BMW
it doesn't intervene too much

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by urbo73

What other cars did you driven prior to the M3?

Audi A5
Chrysler Crossfire
BMW M3 E30

crossfire never slipped, no matter what i did
unless traction control was turned off

M3 never slipped also

Audi i won't include as it's 4wd so not a fair comparison

i've driven M5, BMW 630 cabrio, boxster S, Cayman, 911, and none of those cars i had problems with.

i never complained about the car
my only issue with it is the tires
i love the car
exactly what i wanted, and it gives me everything the Audi didn't
driving pleasure

and if tires are the only issue, that's an easy fix
when i take off my winter tires
will replace the PS2s with something else
and also get 255 fronts and 285 backs

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by serven7

No the car isnt under-tired. Any car on any tire can break em loose its just a matter of physics.



Once again look 4 inches to your left I live in AZ as I told you in the previous post. Yes your right I should stay out of topics that I know nothing about but you should too, this should be a real eye opener for you that some guy in Arizona(or Hawaii) is telling you about cold weather driving.



Well, arent you a grammatical genius! If you are going to call me a retard spell it right, retard and while your at it use spell check. I find it funny that you think Im the retard and let me tell you why. Here is a list of signs of mental retardation.

* Delays in oral language development
You cant write or spell to save your life so you probably cant speak very well. You fit this criteria.

* Deficits in memory skills
Only one post ago I told you I live in AZ and you couldnt remember that, criteria 2 met.

*Delays in the development of adaptive behaviors such as self-help or self-care skills
You obviously check the box here with your inability to learn how to drive and not "slip" around.


Ok so now that we got that out of the way lets get on to the topic at hand my "restarted post".

Your wrong Im right, Your dumb Im smart, Your ugly Im good looking...and so on and so on does this meet your requirement for a retarded post or should I go start a thread asking where the spare tire is?

well, at least after that post, you have my sympathy

you never said you lived in AZ
you did say you lived in a mystical land
which sounds about right

and you get awfully excited about a typo, so i added an s
big whoppie
instead of arguing the topic at hand, which might be troubling for your brain
you picked on silly details
and actually spent time googling words to quote about being a retard
wow, too much free time

[serven7]

Originally Posted by kmarei

actually spent time googling words to quote about being a retard wow, too much free time

haha! yep.

[J08M3]

I say it again. If you slide your car off the road with PS2s and DSC off there is no way you were driving at or close to the posted speed limit. There is no way this car is going to slide off the road while driving in a "reasonably responsible" manor. Now if you're out trying to do donuts or drift around turns or 20+ over posted speed limits through turns then you're already an idiot. Of course many tires will perform better while driving like that in the cold, but not necessary unless you're on a track. No tire is going to save you in you hit ice. I would never drive PS2s in the snow. But on dry or wet streets there should be no problem with PS2s all winter. I suggest driving school to anyone who can't keep this car on the road in the cold.

[tightie]

so are you getting another m3?

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by tightie

so are you getting another m3?

Waiting on insurance to see if it's totaled for sure. I'll decide then if it is. To everyone who's getting worked up over the PS2's not doing so well in the cold, ultimately it's the drivers fault (me) and I should've known not to push the car like I normally do when it's a bit warmer. I made this thread because I felt the PS2's lacked a bit when just starting a commute. I appreciate all the feedback, and was just curious if anyone else noticed it (could be just me). Anyways, I probably will be taking some driver courses and be more careful the next time I turn off DSC completely. Sadly I learned the hard way this time.