The New M3 vs the New RS4/RS5 Question...

[footie]

Originally Posted by Pancho

I agree Footie but in general I have heard more negative comments from Audi owners than BMW owners.

Maybe then you and Audi should be looking at their dealerships as the problem. In most cases thing like this should be caught at PDIing the cars and then fixed before the owner gets it. But if not then how the dealer deal with issues can leave a bad taste in your mouth.

My guess is both brands have an equal amount of faults but BMW deal with them and the customers better.

[GobaS]

Originally Posted by Pancho

I agree Footie but in general I have heard more negative comments from Audi owners than BMW owners.

this is so true.. my friend had audi a4 2003 model and has too many engine failure on his dashboard i saw like 6x popping out on his dashboard..

[a burrito]

Originally Posted by mdh

Audi is up and coming for sure, but as a 20 year audi driver, I'm now a BMW person. Audi has great cars, but they are heavy and not as well balanced as the BMW's. As long as the engine is ahead of the front axle, the Audi's will suffer. (the R8 is definitely the exception).

I'll probably get the new M3 DCT after driving the new M5 over 70,000 miles. It's all about how the parts work together as a whole.

amen to that. i've driven both the s4 and rs4 expesively and have had much time in all bmw vehicles including the previous m3 and i have to say they are both different machines.

the audis feel heavy, refined, sounds REAL good, good value, but it just doesnt drive like a bmw. go drive a rs4 and come back to tell me if the 420 hp really feels like 420hp. trust me, it doesn't

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by a burrito

...the audis feel heavy, refined, sounds REAL good, good value, but it just doesnt drive like a bmw. go drive a rs4 and come back to tell me if the 420 hp really feels like 420hp. trust me, it doesn't

Uh, apparently you're not trustworthy.

I thought it was a very strong performer, with a surprisingly torquey feel down low.

From what I've read in the European nutbooks, the RS4 feels a little stronger than the new M3, even though it isn't. I can't comment directly on that, since I haven't yet driven the bimmer.

Bruce

[footie]

Originally Posted by a burrito

go drive a rs4 and come back to tell me if the 420 hp really feels like 420hp. trust me, it doesn't

Actually Bruce this comment is correct the RS4 doesn't feel as wicked as the M3, it problem is the fact that it feels stronger than the M3 in the lower to mid rev range that it's top end doesn't feel as potent but it is, a simple look at the speedo confirms that.

Punch for punch I reckon the RS4 engine is equally as good if not better than the engine in the M3.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Pancho

I agree Footie but in general I have heard more negative comments from Audi owners than BMW owners.

Well, if you read customer satisfaction reports, Audi is actually better than Mercedes and BMW. Everyone I know that owns an Audi love it. I have no doubt Audi will come up with a great RS model, then BMW may come back with a CLS model etc... but Audi are great cars. I've also had my share of problems with both Mercs and BMW's, but I still love them. lol. I wouldn’t be so quick to judge Audi, this overconfidence is what eventually leads to building worse cars.

[a burrito]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Uh, apparently you're not trustworthy.

I thought it was a very strong performer, with a surprisingly torquey feel down low.

From what I've read in the European nutbooks, the RS4 feels a little stronger than the new M3, even though it isn't. I can't comment directly on that, since I haven't yet driven the bimmer.

Bruce

The Rs4 feels torquey down low but in the higher ranges, it doesn't feel peppy like the e46 m3. im geussing its largely due to the weight and the awd.

however, as one member said, the the audi's fsi engine vs the e92 m3's engine is a toss up. they are both great machines.

[logpak23]

this is just ridiculous, i mean come on guys we have to mature up some time. when it comes down to spending 50,000+ on cars i don't think we should be ignorant. The Rs4 is a monster inside and out, and those of you who supposedly test drove the RS4 are just bias about everything. so what if you own a BMW and don't like to admit that other cars can or are better than what you drive. i really hate it when people say " OH THE CAR FEELS HEAVY", or "THERES NO POWER" "THE CAR ISNT FUN TO DRIVE". i'm gonna say this once and only once, PEOPLE THIS IS AN AUDI NOT ANOTHER BMW OF COURSE IT FEELS DIFFERENT. you just cant be bias about it, the audi IN MY OPINION is a much better car all around, the exterior is gorgeous, i'm not saying its better than the m3, but it sure has a aggressive look. The interior is built with pure excellence much better then the M3, even though its much older. Now im not saying that you cant drive the m3 in snow, but its a lot easier if you have AWD. The truth is from a standing start the m3 is a notch quicker to 150(from the magazine i read some got different scores). To be honest i am very very disappointed at BMW, they come out with the latest and greatest but it turns out your not really getting all to much from it. Dont get me wrong but i just had to say something because i dont like bias, both are great but both are different, both have their pros, and cons, in the end we pick the car we like, and not hate on the other car.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by logpak23

this is just ridiculous, i mean come on guys we have to mature up some time. when it comes down to spending 50,000+ on cars i don't think we should be ignorant. The Rs4 is a monster inside and out, and those of you who supposedly test drove the RS4 are just bias about everything. so what if you own a BMW and don't like to admit that other cars can or are better than what you drive. i really hate it when people say " OH THE CAR FEELS HEAVY", or "THERES NO POWER" "THE CAR ISNT FUN TO DRIVE". i'm gonna say this once and only once, PEOPLE THIS IS AN AUDI NOT ANOTHER BMW OF COURSE IT FEELS DIFFERENT. you just cant be bias about it, the audi IN MY OPINION is a much better car all around, the exterior is gorgeous, i'm not saying its better than the m3, but it sure has a aggressive look. The interior is built with pure excellence much better then the M3, even though its much older. Now im not saying that you cant drive the m3 in snow, but its a lot easier if you have AWD. The truth is from a standing start the m3 is a notch quicker to 150(from the magazine i read some got different scores). To be honest i am very very disappointed at BMW, they come out with the latest and greatest but it turns out your not really getting all to much from it. Dont get me wrong but i just had to say something because i dont like bias, both are great but both are different, both have their pros, and cons, in the end we pick the car we like, and not hate on the other car.

I hate the RS4!

[th3Stig]

I have an RS4, and I've ridden in a new M3. Haven't driven one but regardless, the same guy that designed the 4.0 V8 designed the Audi's 4.2 V8. Of course they won't feel the same, does a Benz feel like an Audi? Does a Caddy feel like a BMW? and about the "peppy"-ness off the line and such, read the prior torque/rpm/gearing posts, and don't forget 8 individual throttle bodies on the M3...

Don't knock the RS4 for what it is, it has been on the road for over a year and a half and is still amazing. The new M3 is spectacular, as it should be. So why are we still predominantly arguing which is better? 2dr RWD/ 4dr AWD?? really?


I mean the differences between these cars make them such polar opposites in my mind, only the engines and market aiming are alike.

[oneginee]

It is a bad idea to diss the RS4. On performance it is a very very close contender to the E92 M3. It is a well knowned fact that the RS4 has a more refined interior (if a bit dated by now) and just all around extremely high built quality while the M3 is more a spartian warrior from the interior it is a bit frugal.
The RS4 AWD with Audi proprietary torque control can direct torque delivery to the wheel that needs it most which makes for a very different driving experience than a rear wheel drive with mechanical differential slip. Driving the RS4 feels extremely safe even in extreme driving while the M3 as Top gear's man says "feels more like a teenager". At least that was the case with the old M3. The E92 M3 is a bit more refined sport drive than the previous generation. It is a matter of personal taste.
On quality and reliability both cars are excellent.
When it comes to reliabilty BMW initial 335i automatic were sold without oil cooler which lead to overheating oil and engine shutdown. BMW was basically doing final testing for the car with the customers. BTW a friend who went to an infinity dealer for a G37 told me they re-printed the auto magazine article about this little fiasco and they use it for any customer to bias customer who are considering the the 335i

[gbb357]

The fact that the RS4 re-invented this segment and changed the game 3 yrs ago says a lot about Audi and the RS4. The current RS4 that is 3yrs old, out dated and still be able to keep up with all of the new competition. Just imagine when the new RS4 comes out and how much better it'll be than the current competition.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by gbb357

The fact that the RS4 re-invented this segment and changed the game 3 yrs ago says a lot about Audi and the RS4. The current RS4 that is 3yrs old, out dated and still be able to keep up with all of the new competition. Just imagine when the new RS4 comes out and how much better it'll be than the current competition.

Ehh? How did it change the game or re-invent the segment? You sound like a brochure. The only game change will come when someone gets serious about giving us lighter, more fuel-efficient 8 minute 'ring cars.

Originally Posted by oneginee

It is a well knowned fact that the RS4 has a more refined interior

You need to look up "fact" in the dictionary.

As for quality, JD Power currently rates BMW ahead of Audi in 3 out of 5 "quality" categories and tied in the other 2, although Lexus kills them all.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Keto

Ehh? How did it change the game or re-invent the segment? You sound like a brochure. The only game change will come when someone gets serious about giving us lighter, more fuel-efficient 8 minute 'ring cars.



You need to look up "fact" in the dictionary.

As for quality, JD Power currently rates BMW ahead of Audi in 3 out of 5 "quality" categories and tied in the other 2, although Lexus kills them all.

100% agree!!!

[gbb357]

Originally Posted by Keto

Ehh? How did it change the game or re-invent the segment? You sound like a brochure. The only game change will come when someone gets serious about giving us lighter, more fuel-efficient 8 minute 'ring cars.

Uhh let's see, 3yrs ago the RS4 was already making 420hp, 0-60 in mid 4's and even lower, 1/4 mile in 12 secs, and a 4.2 V8. Now 3yrs later, the M3 has a V8 making 414hp, the C63 has a V8 with 451hp, and the ISF has a V8 with 417hp and all of them are virtually the same straightline performance figures with the exception of the C63 which seems to be a lot quicker than the rest. Handling wise of course the M3 still dominates. Now remember that this was 3yrs ago, and everyone just caught up to the RS4 and the M3 and C63 has surpassed it. For me that says that the RS4 set a new standard and re-invented the segment 3yrs ago.

[spearfisher]

Originally Posted by gbb357

Uhh let's see, 3yrs ago the RS4 was already making 420hp, 0-60 in mid 4's and even lower, 1/4 mile in 12 secs, and a 4.2 V8. Now 3yrs later, the M3 has a V8 making 414hp, the C63 has a V8 with 451hp, and the ISF has a V8 with 417hp and all of them are virtually the same straightline performance figures with the exception of the C63 which seems to be a lot quicker than the rest. Handling wise of course the M3 still dominates. Now remember that this was 3yrs ago, and everyone just caught up to the RS4 and the M3 and C63 has surpassed it. For me that says that the RS4 set a new standard and re-invented the segment 3yrs ago.

valid statement

[footie]

Originally Posted by gbb357

Uhh let's see, 3yrs ago the RS4 was already making 420hp, 0-60 in mid 4's and even lower, 1/4 mile in 12 secs, and a 4.2 V8. Now 3yrs later, the M3 has a V8 making 414hp, the C63 has a V8 with 451hp, and the ISF has a V8 with 417hp and all of them are virtually the same straightline performance figures with the exception of the C63 which seems to be a lot quicker than the rest. Handling wise of course the M3 still dominates. Now remember that this was 3yrs ago, and everyone just caught up to the RS4 and the M3 and C63 has surpassed it. For me that says that the RS4 set a new standard and re-invented the segment 3yrs ago.

Most of this I agree with apart from the M3 dominating the handling department, maybe on the track and in the right hands it is the quicker car but in the hands of anyone with less ability the Audi should actually be the quicker. So that statement is only a matter of opinion as the whether you are capable enough to get the extra performance out of the M3's chassis or not.

I have driven rwd and awd over the years and while the rwd is be far the more entertaining and enjoyable I feel happier to push an awd car on the road more.

Different styles which tap into different pleasures.

[oneginee]

Originally Posted by Keto

You need to look up "fact" in the dictionary.

As for quality, JD Power currently rates BMW ahead of Audi in 3 out of 5 "quality" categories and tied in the other 2, although Lexus kills them all.

That was based on several reviews ( uk's Top gear, edmunds, a french magazine's review of both cars) + personally experiencing both cars (only drove the M3).

[JEllis]

I would imagine the RS5 will be faster, maybe, than the current M3... Theres always a faster car...

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by JEllis

I would imagine the RS5 will be faster, maybe, than the current M3... Theres always a faster car...

I would imagine the same. The M3 is not particularly fast and the RS5 is likely to have an hp level around the C63 AMG plus higher torque.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by oneginee

That was based on several reviews ( uk's Top gear, edmunds, a french magazine's review of both cars) + personally experiencing both cars (only drove the M3).

Seriously, look up the word "fact." Reviews and personal experience are not facts.

Duh.

EDIT: To help you understand -- saying "Most reviewers prefer the RS4's interior" would be a fact assuming that it's true (which I do). Saying "The RS4's interior is more refined" is an opinion.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by gbb357

Uhh let's see, 3yrs ago the RS4 was already making 420hp, 0-60 in mid 4's and even lower, 1/4 mile in 12 secs, and a 4.2 V8. Now 3yrs later, the M3 has a V8 making 414hp, the C63 has a V8 with 451hp, and the ISF has a V8 with 417hp and all of them are virtually the same straightline performance figures with the exception of the C63 which seems to be a lot quicker than the rest. Handling wise of course the M3 still dominates. Now remember that this was 3yrs ago, and everyone just caught up to the RS4 and the M3 and C63 has surpassed it. For me that says that the RS4 set a new standard and re-invented the segment 3yrs ago.

You have a low threshold for calling something a "new standard" and "re-inventing" the segment. It's like saying the Baconator "re-invented" the hamburgers with cheese and bacon segment, setting a "new standard" by having 6 slices of bacon instead of 3.