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      01-03-2014, 12:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant Man View Post
How many hours labour to install both subframe and diff bushings pls?

I'd really like to have a better feel for the diff whine before going ahead with any changes. Would you be able to post a video so that it can be heard? I.e what you hear from the driver's seat. Is it akin to straighcut racing gearboxes but quieter?
My car was in the shop for two full days. I believe the labor hours are 12-15.
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      01-04-2014, 02:05 PM   #24
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Thanks. Any chance you could post a vid or sound clip of the diff whine?
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      01-04-2014, 11:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant Man View Post

I'd really like to have a better feel for the diff whine before going ahead with any changes. Would you be able to post a video so that it can be heard? I.e what you hear from the driver's seat. Is it akin to straighcut racing gearboxes but quieter?
I think your description is spot on. I rode in a friends e46 track car last month, his first event after having solid subframe and diff bushings installed. The diff whine was very noticeable; personally I would hate it on the street.

For a street car I would try the Powerflex or similar product for the diff bushings.
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      02-17-2014, 02:54 PM   #26
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I only track my car few times in year, but mosty on street. with my kw coilover and solid subframe bushing.. I love it. but where I am at, road is pretty smooth. However, if I live in like NY or PA. massive of bumps and road construction.. yes, it will get annoying little. definitly makes the car tighten up how it drives for sure.



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Originally Posted by TXmtrhed View Post
I think your description is spot on. I rode in a friends e46 track car last month, his first event after having solid subframe and diff bushings installed. The diff whine was very noticeable; personally I would hate it on the street.

For a street car I would try the Powerflex or similar product for the diff bushings.
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      02-22-2014, 05:18 AM   #27
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I got the solid delrin rear diff mounts and replaced the engine mounts with race mounts as well. "was snapping rear diff bolts is reason"

Car is much more grounded and responsive with farrr less wheel hop. Downside is you do get a nice whine inside the cabin, even over exhaust and music. Goes away at around 80mph though, not annoying but not wanted noise either.
Our cars come with crappy ass squishy diff mounts though that do need to be replaced even if you do a little aggressive street driving.
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      02-23-2014, 05:17 PM   #28
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Would changing out the rear subframe bushings for solid mean that stresses that otherwise would have been dissipated by the flexible bushings might now be transferred to elsewhere in the chassis and does the chassis therefore have to be reinforced?

I have bought a set of the bushings and am about to get them fitted. I can deal with a little more NVH as the M3 is too soft and comfy in my opinion but I don't want to find that my mounting points are cracking down the line...

Does anybody know whether it's ok to simply fit the bushings and not require any other work? My driving is 90:10 street to track but I do drive quite hard on the street..

Thanks

Jack
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      02-23-2014, 06:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
Would changing out the rear subframe bushings for solid mean that stresses that otherwise would have been dissipated by the flexible bushings might now be transferred to elsewhere in the chassis and does the chassis therefore have to be reinforced?

I have bought a set of the bushings and am about to get them fitted. I can deal with a little more NVH as the M3 is too soft and comfy in my opinion but I don't want to find that my mounting points are cracking down the line...

Does anybody know whether it's ok to simply fit the bushings and not require any other work? My driving is 90:10 street to track but I do drive quite hard on the street..

Thanks

Jack
The OE rubber bushings have too much flex. Ideally you want no flex/movement so the unibody does not have to absorb any excess stress. The flex of the OE bushings puts a lot of pressure on the mounting points of the subframe and in extreme cases will rip/tear the unibody structure. The E92 M3 has not been around long enough but torn unibodies have occurred on the E36 and E46 platform. So, its actually the opposite of what you would think.

Again, the M3 GTS, current M5/6 all have a completely solid subframes straight from BMW.
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      02-24-2014, 08:39 PM   #30
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Malek@MRF

Is there any kind of upkeep or maintenance solid aluminum subframe bushings require for cars that see all four seasons to ensure minimal added NVH over stock?
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      02-27-2014, 02:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Malek@MRF

Is there any kind of upkeep or maintenance solid aluminum subframe bushings require for cars that see all four seasons to ensure minimal added NVH over stock?
There is no upkeep or maintenance required with the MRF Engineering Sub-frame bushings. Essentially, once they are installed, you will never have to worry about them ever again and will last the life of the car. Pair with the differential bushings (Delrin or Solid ONLY), the differential bushings will require no maintenance as well.

Once these 2 items are installed into the rear carrier, the only maintenance for the rear end and differential will be other rubber bushed parts, the differential output shaft seals along with the M Limited Slip. The solid bushings and differential bushings will not accelerate the wear on any other items, in fact it will strain the unibody less and will alleviate the strain placed on the differential mounts themselves.

Feel free to ask as many questions you need either here or by PM.

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      02-28-2014, 03:43 PM   #32
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How much for the rear subframe MRF bushes, Malek, shipped to the UK pls?
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      03-04-2014, 11:45 AM   #33
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Quote:
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How much for the rear subframe MRF bushes, Malek, shipped to the UK pls?
You have a PM.
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      03-04-2014, 12:16 PM   #34
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Suspension

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Good stuff, Biggy. How long was the labor on the subframe bushings? Thinking of getting this done.

Ben,

Labor is approximately 12 hours when it's all said and done as there are a lot of steps to ensure the job is done correctly.

As biggynuts01 said, this modification is mandatory in my eyes. It is the reason why the modern M's are switching over to this design, although I do feel they are 10 years too late to the party and should have implemented this type of design theory when the cars began to increase in power astronomically to prevent all the sub-frame issues they had in the past.

NVH increase is non-existent with the change of the sub-frame bushings themselves and extremely minimal change in noise from doing the differential bushings in conjunction. For most of the street car and occasional weekend racer vehicles, I opt to use the Turner Delrin differential bushings along with the MRF sub-frame bushings. For cars that are more dedicated to track usage, I have developed solid differential bushings as well.

For those wondering, the MRF Engineering Motorsport sub-frame bushings are fully designed and engineered in-house at MRF and CNC'd right here in Southern California.
With regards to the said suspension upgrade. Do you need another Alignment and Corner Balance after the work is done? Thanks.
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      03-04-2014, 12:32 PM   #35
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With regards to the said suspension upgrade. Do you need another Alignment and Corner Balance after the work is done? Thanks.
A corner balance is not required, an alignment is. Mainly to ensure that everything is still correct and indexed correctly. We include the alignment with the procedure anyway. We have done approximately 20 cars now just locally.
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      03-04-2014, 01:15 PM   #36
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Rear subframe bushings price shipped to L6W 3R6 - Ontario, Canada
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      03-05-2014, 09:26 AM   #37
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This is a great mod!!

I had the MRF aluminium rear subframe bushings and Turner Delrin differential bushings fitted yesterday and I love it...

There's no doubt that the diff is now noisier. It whines a bit and there is more noise when changing gear but the back end feels better when accelerating hard, especially out of corners.

The car feels more raw overall and this will either be a good thing or bad thing depending on whether you view the E9x M3 as a race car with road comforts (then you will love it) or as a luxury road car with sporty leanings (then you might hate it).

I would recommend Malek as somebody to deal with. I had lots of stupid questions and he dealt with them all. He also spoke to my installer to guide them. Delivery to the UK was very quick (although not cheap!).

Jack
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      03-06-2014, 08:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
This is a great mod!!

I had the MRF aluminium rear subframe bushings and Turner Delrin differential bushings fitted yesterday and I love it...

There's no doubt that the diff is now noisier. It whines a bit and there is more noise when changing gear but the back end feels better when accelerating hard, especially out of corners.

The car feels more raw overall and this will either be a good thing or bad thing depending on whether you view the E9x M3 as a race car with road comforts (then you will love it) or as a luxury road car with sporty leanings (then you might hate it).

I would recommend Malek as somebody to deal with. I had lots of stupid questions and he dealt with them all. He also spoke to my installer to guide them. Delivery to the UK was very quick (although not cheap!).

Jack
Wonderful to hear. I have those exact parts ready to go in to my E92.
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      03-07-2014, 12:22 PM   #39
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Wonderful to hear. I have those exact parts ready to go in to my E92.
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      03-07-2014, 12:40 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF View Post
Hey Malek,

If i go with the solid rear sub-frame and to avoid the diff noise can i use a powerflex (poly) whatever its called? or do you recommend using at lease a Derlin diff bushing?
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      03-07-2014, 01:49 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmntmn View Post
Hey Malek,

If i go with the solid rear sub-frame and to avoid the diff noise can i use a powerflex (poly) whatever its called? or do you recommend using at lease a Derlin diff bushing?
You can use the Powerflex differential bushings with the MRF Engineering solid sub-frame bushings. We have done this on a few cars now and the owners love it as well. Most of the benefit comes from the sub-frame mounts anyway, the differential bushings are the icing on the cake. Most prefer the feel of the Delrin differential bushings and are willing to deal with the slight increase in differential gear whine.

It's really a subjective matter though. If one is willing to deal with a louder exhaust, then dealing with some more diff whine shouldn't be a concern.
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      03-07-2014, 02:19 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
This is a great mod!!

I had the MRF aluminium rear subframe bushings and Turner Delrin differential bushings fitted yesterday and I love it...

There's no doubt that the diff is now noisier. It whines a bit and there is more noise when changing gear but the back end feels better when accelerating hard, especially out of corners.

The car feels more raw overall and this will either be a good thing or bad thing depending on whether you view the E9x M3 as a race car with road comforts (then you will love it) or as a luxury road car with sporty leanings (then you might hate it).

I would recommend Malek as somebody to deal with. I had lots of stupid questions and he dealt with them all. He also spoke to my installer to guide them. Delivery to the UK was very quick (although not cheap!).

Jack
Jack, glad you like the mods. Malek quoted me $195 to send via Fedex which I thought was a lot from a cost / weight perspective. I would have thought they could be sent for less? Perhaps a cheaper courier is available. Did you get charged VAT / custom charges on top?

Also, did you use Birds? And how long did the job take pls?
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      03-07-2014, 02:55 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF View Post
You can use the Powerflex differential bushings with the MRF Engineering solid sub-frame bushings. We have done this on a few cars now and the owners love it as well. Most of the benefit comes from the sub-frame mounts anyway, the differential bushings are the icing on the cake. Most prefer the feel of the Delrin differential bushings and are willing to deal with the slight increase in differential gear whine.

It's really a subjective matter though. If one is willing to deal with a louder exhaust, then dealing with some more diff whine shouldn't be a concern.
I'm currently running test pipe with Megan rear will the Diff whine be louder? if not i should run MRF Solid Sub Frame and Derlin Diff

Sorry for all the questions Malek
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      03-07-2014, 03:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmntmn View Post
I'm currently running test pipe with Megan rear will the Diff whine be louder? if not i should run MRF Solid Sub Frame and Derlin Diff

Sorry for all the questions Malek
The diff whine wouldn't be louder than that setup. Some cars whine more/less than others depending on the diff oil that is being used (FM vs. non FM fluid).
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