ISF in person

[timzerofive]

Saw this car at the Toyotafest, looks pretty nice. They have the LS 600H with the LED headlights next to it too. They were revving is, sounds good. But I'll stick with waiting for the M3.

[NaViT]

the front looks nice... but thats nothing to me... u dont got more pics?

[canucklion]

the front does look very aggressive

[younghov85]

If the M3 is priced too high, that thing is gonna be a great alternative.

[533ogetnom]

"at toyota fest"


rep -100

thats why bmw = win

[hks786]

Personally I love this car, I think the exhausts are cool, body is cool, not too sure about side vents though, performance seems good, though 5.0 litres is a huge engine! but we'll have to wait to hear final figures for performance. Even if it aint as good as the M3, its a good attempt, the M3 has had loads of years of experience...

[Chris.G]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

"at toyota fest"


rep -100

thats why bmw = win

agreed

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

"at toyota fest"


rep -100

thats why bmw = win

Huh? didn't get that one... rep-100??

Anyways, just the fact that they won't have a manual kills the deal for me either way. But I'm going either with the M3 or the caymanS, taking an IS will be moving down in my book. Even if it looks nice and sounds nice, I was just surprised they had this car at the show.

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Huh? didn't get that one... rep-100??

Anyways, just the fact that they won't have a manual kills the deal for me either way. But I'm going either with the M3 or the caymanS, taking an IS will be moving down in my book. Even if it looks nice and sounds nice, I was just surprised they had this car at the show.

rep = reputation, toyota = lexus = reputation -100

bmw = bmw = yay

[krazykanuck]

My guess is that this car will be just as fast if not faster than the new M3, but the M3 will definitely pull away as soon as some curves in the road show up.

It will also probably have a softer suspension and be a more livable daily drive (of course no manual tranny), and cheaper than the M3, so depending on your priorities it might be a tough choice, well depending on level of brand whoreishness of course and whether or not you are a purist.

[T Bone]

Like a toy..... Can it get more plasticky looking? Hate the tailpipes too. And Toyota harms little children.

[DougLikesBMW]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Like a toy..... Can it get more plasticky looking? Hate the tailpipes too. And Toyota harms little children.

Agreed.

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by boggysv

because toyota doesnt have motorsports experience?
JGTC,rally (old celica), lemans, nascar, F1...what do those count for?

its funny how many people here look down on japanese brands thinking they are inferior. seems like the UDM advertising campaign went too far.

rep-100? bmw=win?
bmws are nice cars, but not the best.
not the best in terms of performance, not the best in terms of quality.
It is however, a pretty decent package with a nice balance in the middle.


just like the thread on M3post about the new M3 vs the new skyline. One car is clearly a league above performance wise, and only fanbois would think otherwise.

Nope, Japanese brands are not crap and BMW are not the BEST cars in the world (Arguably). However, given the IS250/350's setup of a softer suspension and the lack of a true manual, it's safe to assume that Toyota did not had the intention of going up head to head against BMW's superiority in the way the car will handle on the twisties or on the track. They targeted a different niche market. So with that, one can assume the IS-F will take that niche targeting up a level, but still will not try to convince the "purists" that IS-F is an alternative for them.

I think Nissan tries that more with the G series, and they do build a pretty formidable opponent, but until they come with some sort of Nismo modified G37 with one of the 26 letters int he alphabet attached to it, I think M3 will still be the car of choice for the buyers that really want all the performance edge M3 can give them. Or you can go with a RS4 or C63.

[hks786]

Originally Posted by boggysv

because toyota doesnt have motorsports experience?
JGTC,rally (old celica), lemans, nascar, F1...what do those count for?

its funny how many people here look down on japanese brands thinking they are inferior. seems like the UDM advertising campaign went too far.

rep-100? bmw=win?
bmws are nice cars, but not the best.
not the best in terms of performance, not the best in terms of quality.
It is however, a pretty decent package with a nice balance in the middle.


just like the thread on M3post about the new M3 vs the new skyline. One car is clearly a league above performance wise, and only fanbois would think otherwise.

I don't think japanese cars are inferior at all. I'm sorry I wasnt clear. I just meant the unique market the M3 has, which is a balance of luxury, class and performance in coupe (and now again, sedan) form is perhaps something the M3 has more experience at. However, Lexus has made a very good attempt; I mean the parts used in the IS-F are hardly toys, this is a high performance sedan with a mix of class and sport. This being Lexus's first attempt at the "M3 market" is a very good attempt in my opinion, and let's not forget this is not an E92 M3 competitor but it is an E90 M3 competitor. I just wish the IS-F came as a manual, and perhaps the engine wasnt so big....

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by boggysv

because toyota doesnt have motorsports experience?

yea because they are doing SOOO well in f1 right now

[herbz]

Originally Posted by boggysv

because toyota doesnt have motorsports experience?
JGTC,rally (old celica), lemans, nascar, F1...what do those count for?

its funny how many people here look down on japanese brands thinking they are inferior. seems like the UDM advertising campaign went too far.

rep-100? bmw=win?
bmws are nice cars, but not the best.
not the best in terms of performance, not the best in terms of quality.
It is however, a pretty decent package with a nice balance in the middle.


just like the thread on M3post about the new M3 vs the new skyline. One car is clearly a league above performance wise, and only fanbois would think otherwise.

japanese brands are inferior in alot of ways to german brands. mostly in the performance and refinement categories, which are the most important. japanese brands can get the edge in reliability (since most jap cars are 4 bangers that grandma uses to drive around town, as opposed to BMW twin turbo I6's, V8's, V10, V12 that more performance-minded people buy), and interior.

you calling BMW's "pretty decent" is laughable man, sorry. you drive an A4? when was the last time an A4 won a comparo against a 3 series? i guess if BMW is only "pretty decent" then Audi must be "pretty damn terrible". GJ dissing your own car.

as far as all this skyline bullshit is concerned, that car isn't even remotely close to being out, there is not 1 confirmed rumor about it. The M3 isn't even out and none of us know what type of performance it is capable of. give me 1 Lexus/Nissan/Infiniti/Toyota whatever other jap brand you can pull out of your ass that can beat a BMW M3 (e46) in any performance category and I'll give you a cookie. and no the ISF doesn't count because it's not out yet either.

and as far as your japanese quality argument is concerned i'm sorry but you can't believe anything you read when it comes to reliability statistics, the most skewed BS statistic ever published. my e30 has lasted just fine (330,000 miles still running excellent) and all i see is "BMW's reliability is so bad blah blah blah"

let me remind you that you're on a BMW forum ehre, you're not going to come here and convince us that Lexus deserves any more credit than we already give them. they are what they are, and that is a decent car, just like any Toyota out there. BMW clearly has the edge on them in pretty much every non-subjective category(aka performance & refinement), and any enthusiast will agree. it's the Japanese fanbois like yourself that come to different forums and try to spew your BS opinion on all of us.

[berm3]

The car looks good, but the side vents look horrible.

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

yea because they are doing SOOO well in f1 right now

oh yea, honda has been doing really well too.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

I think Nissan tries that more with the G series, and they do build a pretty formidable opponent, but until they come with some sort of Nismo modified G37 with one of the 26 letters int he alphabet attached to it, I think M3 will still be the car of choice for the buyers that really want all the performance edge M3 can give them. Or you can go with a RS4 or C63.

How about three letters?

[Corey]

Originally Posted by herbz

as far as all this skyline bullshit is concerned, that car isn't even remotely close to being out, there is not 1 confirmed rumor about it. The M3 isn't even out and none of us know what type of performance it is capable of. give me 1 Lexus/Nissan/Infiniti/Toyota whatever other jap brand you can pull out of your ass that can beat a BMW M3 (e46) in any performance category and I'll give you a cookie. and no the ISF doesn't count because it's not out yet either.

Nurburgring fastest production car lap times

8:22 - BMW M3 E46, 343 PS/1584 kg (sport auto 12/00)
8:22 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R32, 280 PS/36 kgf·m/1430 kg <--- 18 years strong
8:11 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR prototype, 280 PS/40.8 kgf·m/1420 kg
8:06 - Subaru WRX STi Spec-C prototype, 280 PS/42 kgf·m/1370 kg
8:03 - Honda NSX-R (NA1), 280 PS/30 kgf·m/1230 kg
8:01 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R33, 280 PS/37.5 kgf·m/1540 kg
7:59 - Subaru Impreza Sti Spec-C (Prototype), 280 PS/1370 kg
7:54 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R34

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by boggysv

oh...I suppose you forgot that toyota is a relatively "new" team in F1?
How long has bmw been in the sport? Are they doing terribly well either?

Honda sucks? I'm sorry, which engine provider gave mclaren their most dominating season ever?

you meen back in the 1980s?

yea ok you got me there, good job

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

oh yea, honda has been doing really well too.

Toyota / Honda - Today's Rolling Chicane