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11-20-2012, 07:06 PM | #23 |
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I say go with your M3 at the track, it really is the best place to enjoy and appreciate the capabilities of the car. IMO, no need to start with a beater or your Mini.
As many others have said, as a newb, just keep the car stock. You probably won't even need to upgrade the brakes for the first few events. Most definitely stick with street tires for the first few seasons. If you do get hooked to the sport, you can start looking at mods that will improve safety like better track brake pads. I am a firm believer that the best component worth modding is the one between the seat and the steering wheel . And most importantly, HAVE FUN Last edited by CanAutM3; 11-20-2012 at 07:34 PM.. |
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11-20-2012, 07:20 PM | #24 | |
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The only thing a novice needs to do is make sure the car is properly serviced. After a few track days, start thinking about track pads and high temp brake fluid. After the first set of tires are gone, then consider a second set of wheels that offer a square setup so you can rotate the tires (still street tires). I highly recommend against any r-compound tires unless you want to start down a very expensive slippery slope of upgrades. For example, the stock brakes are fine with track pads and some cooling ducts as long as you stick with street tires (upper end like AD-08s). Once you put on R-compounds, you'll likely overdrive the stock brakes and you'll start to feel like the car moves around too much on the suspension. You'll conclude you need big brakes and coil overs, sway bars. Then, you'll think the car needs more power, on goes the supercharger. Then you'll move to Hoosiers and need a pickup and trailer... Ask me how I know I drive in the advanced groups, normally with a dedicated track car, but this year I drove 20 days with my E90 M3 family car with only these mods (track car, a Palatov D2, is being built and will be ready in the Spring so M3 will be back to DD duties): - Camber plates (-2.2) - Pagid Yellow pads - Brembo brake fluid - Cantrell Cooling ducts - Apex 18" wheels with a square tire setup (265s) using RE11, AD08 and PSS tires And I had a blast The E9X M3 is an extremely capable track weapon in mostly stock trim. Save the money for gas, tires, pads and driving schools Bondurant's 4-day is excellent for novice to intermediate drivers. I'm sure Skip Barber and Russell Racing are also superb schools if you can't do the M School. Have fun! Pete |
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11-20-2012, 10:05 PM | #25 | ||
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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11-20-2012, 10:32 PM | #26 | |
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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11-20-2012, 11:24 PM | #27 |
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11-20-2012, 11:34 PM | #28 | |
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Uh, if you read what was written to me as a question "Any idea what tires you're looking at? You should stick to street tires until you max them out before R-compound." Then I responded with what I am thinking about doing. I did not offer that as advice to anyone, but what I am thinking of. In an earlier post, I DID provide advice that one should drive stock for awhile before changing anything. (So you are calling me out, but without accuracy.) - V
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11-21-2012, 04:08 AM | #29 |
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I recommend getting a set of track wheels+tires (18's preferably) to start. R-compounds will offer more grip and stay driveable for a longer period. Street tires will rapidly decrease performance on cornery tracks, as they get very greasy when hot.
You'll also feel way more comfortable knowing that you'll still have your street tires for "the day after", if you were to go through your set at the track. Next is race brake fluid and better brake pads. Then I would look into suspension: camber plates are a must, coilovers eventually. That should set you up well, until you get more experienced at the track.
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11-21-2012, 04:34 AM | #30 |
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1. Go to the track stock and don't go nuts on the stock brakes
2. Potentially have an instructor sit in a few laps to provide tips 2. Upgrade pads 3. Tyres that provide a balance between track and street (on the assumption you are not going to be having dedicated track wheels and you are not going to the track every weekend etc) If you are going to go beyond the occasional dabble at the track and as you become a more accomplished driver then it may be a case for bigger upgrades!
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11-21-2012, 05:44 PM | #31 | |
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The stock brake system (pads included) with street tires should be able to manage a novice driver without problems . IMO, SS lines are really not required and are a waste of money Upgrading the brake fluid will definetly add a layer of safety without detrimental impact on the DD Track pads are a compromise. For better track performance you need to live with sqealing and maybe rattling sounds on the DD if you do not swap your pads every time . Up to you. But as you start to gain more speed, I would definitely recommend upgrading pads . Naturally it all depends on the track layout, but in general, the M3 drivers that have issues with the brakes are the intermediate to advanced drivers that are starting to haul serious speed but have a tendency to overbrake or do not fully manage their brakes. Or at the other extreme, the pros/semi pros that are looking for that last bit of performance edge. Last edited by CanAutM3; 11-22-2012 at 05:13 AM.. |
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11-21-2012, 08:58 PM | #32 |
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I agree you should keep the car stock until you know you will be going to the track often enough to justify proper track mods (10+ a year or more). If you've made that decision, then the basic items to get would be:
-Racing Brake Fluid *ATE Super Blue works for me. You won't need it first couple times out, but once speed start to increase, better safe than sorry -Racing Brake Pads *Performance Friction 08s - Endurance Compound *Don't screw around with stock pads at the track, they will turn into dust quickly at your level since you'll be using them often. Yes, it's true, instructors drive on them, but don't be fooled you can too without some level of consequence / risk. -Camber Plates *Negative camber will save your tires from wearing too quickly and help you a tad on the turns. Might be optional at the novice level though -18 inch Track Wheels and Tires *Keeps you from changing out costly 19 inch tires regularly. Also, R-comps come more readily in these sizes. 18x10 APEX EC7 Rims and NT-01 Tires should work well. -Clear Bra *Keeps the car from getting dinged too much from track debris or if you don't care it's optional. You could also just use painter's tape, but it gets old putting that crap on every time. -Equipment? *Check out Harbor Freight Tools. Get a jack, impact fun, torque wrench, etc. so you can check your own car out and rotate tires for even wear. I guess you could just borrow this stuff on the track, but if you have the means to get it yourself - it's worth it. -Others *Supercharger is unnecessary and only will aid in burning up consumables (pads, tires, etc.) at a much quicker rate, even if you're a great driver. You're simply going faster and it takes more to slow you down or take turns. Also, it's another thing that gets heat soaked or can simply go wrong at the track - more hassle. I can't tell you how many serpetine belts I've helped change for my supercharger buddies... *Suspension - coilovers would be ideal and will be a great add-on later. The truth is the stock M3 suspension is very capable. If you're serious about the track, try to avoid springs or a sleeve kit. They aren't horrible, but if you're going through the motions of a suspension upgrade, do it right the first time and get coils. Good luck at the track and get yourself some track insurance. You may be a good driver, but others not so much Watch out. If you need any more advice before going to the track, feel free to PM.
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11-22-2012, 02:16 AM | #33 | |
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And a beginner won't/shouldn't drive r-comps to the limit. However the extra grip margin may come in handy if a corner was underestimated.
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11-22-2012, 02:01 PM | #34 |
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Not trying to argue, but I don't think ANY beginner will drive the limit of a car like the M3
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11-22-2012, 10:28 PM | #35 | |
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Well...okay, it's an opinion. I have to say, though, that the not "ever go on an E93" is off the mark. It's like the person that keeps writing that E93's are an "afterthought" which is totally bull. If I want my E93 to perform better, who cares what model it is? (At the last track day, with a totally stock E93, I was getting better times than several E90's and E92's, and other makes of cars...not withstanding the variances in driver capabilities.) I have a semi-racing background with motorcycles, and some of that is transferable to cars. But one of the main reasons I'm looking at those tires I mentioned earlier is that at under 19,000 miles, I have destroyed four Michelin PS2's that came with my car, and that's just three track days. I need to replace them. TireRack.com has the fronts for $295 ea, and rears for $371. Whereas a set of track-specific BFGoodrich q-Force R1's are $177 each. I'll save at least $624 going to the BFGoodrich's...that will only be used at the track. I have a 4-set of 19"s that I've put on my car for daily use. I'll certainly post a follow-up next season on what kind of difference there is on the track. Even if it makes zero lap-time difference, it will make a difference in my wallet. Disclaimer: to any new drivers or rookies considering what tires to place on your car, please note that I am not a professional, highly-experienced M3 driver as many on this forum are. It's only my lowly opinion. Please don't crash your car with R-compound tires and then file a lawsuit against me, or the forum. .
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11-22-2012, 11:58 PM | #36 |
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You'll kill r-comps a lot faster than street tires. The difference is the R-comps will cord pretty quickly unless you manage the tires. I've seen two guys cord a brand new Hoosier r6 in 6 sessions.
I agree with Purple, beginner and even intermediate drivers should stick with street tires. I see too many people blaming tires for understeer/oversteer issues on street tires when it's clearly a driver issue. Then they go to an R-comps to fix their skill issue which then makes that driver issue much more difficult to diagnose. AND they'll be a lot harder on the tires. You really should be very comfortable with knowing what the car is doing at the limit of grip otherwise it gets ugly really quick since you are carrying even more speed. Must also be smooth with the controls. I see too many hacks running r-comps and slicks. Honestly, I'm maybe giving up a second per lap for 2-3 laps with my street tires every 20 min session. Otherwise, I'm running comparable times. Gotta ask yourself is it worth it? Tire changing, managing the tires, hard to drive in the rain, loading/unloading, etc. For me? Not worth it. I still pass plenty of cars on r-comps and slicks. FWIW, I run RS3s on my 330 and Dunlop Z1*'s on my M3 (just put on RS3s on my M3).
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11-23-2012, 12:08 AM | #37 | |
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DSC will start kick in on exit right when the car starts to slip (maximum traction). I'm using the slip to rotate the car from apex to exit so I can be on full throttle. DSC kills that slip angle in the tires and will point me right off track so it becomes a wrestling match...me vs DSC.
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11-23-2012, 08:18 AM | #38 | |
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11-23-2012, 09:06 AM | #39 |
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Also, agree 100%. R-comps are not for beginners and even most intermediate drivers. IMO, starting with R-comps will result in a driver developing a lot of bad habits as well as thinking they are "great" drivers until something goes wrong, very wrong....
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11-23-2012, 09:06 AM | #40 | |
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11-23-2012, 09:27 AM | #41 |
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I would also say street tires all the way. I think a big factor, at least for me, that nobody really talks about is FUN. All anyone talks about is becoming a better driver, well I'm in it for the fun, and if I just happen to become a better driver, great! I mean, I'm not going pro, this is my DD, and like mentioned earlier you're not giving that much up to people on R-comps with the present state of streets out there. I get plenty of life out of my AD08's (6-10 events depending) and can drive it on the street as storage is an issue for me. Just go out and have fun, you'll figure out what you will/won't need relatively quickly as you talk to others on the paddock. Just remember, shiny side up
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11-23-2012, 11:06 AM | #42 | |
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Yes, keep the shiny side up |
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11-23-2012, 04:05 PM | #43 |
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I haven't read the whole thread but I just want to shime in to say that the E9x M3 is a complete beast on the track even with minimal mods.
Mine came with lowering springs. To which I added a pair of camber plates then got it aligned properly. Also installed brake lines and high temp fluid. I swap race pads (in the front only) and run sticky street rubber. The car is a total animal. So those would be my recommendations for a starter/budget track setup that would make even advanced drivers happy. The E9x is one hell of a chassis. |
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01-20-2013, 08:31 PM | #44 |
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Just to add to what kaiv said, the m3 doesn't need much. I've only track pads, wheels, rbf600, and ss lines. The car is a blast. Have camber plates on order but other than that you have to keep in mind that its a 3600lb luxury car. Just have fun and make changes when they become absolutely necessary unless you will be cheating yourself.
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