|
|
11-05-2011, 01:22 PM | #1 |
Banned
88
Rep 1,105
Posts |
s65 v. s85 trumpets
I was wondering if we have the exact same length trumpets in our air intake plenums as the s85 engine did?
Also I noticed on a show about the z06 the other day that their monster enigine has no trumpets or any individual throttle bodies for that matter. I understand trumpets if left exposed to the open air with no intake cover but what benefits are the trumpets when inside an air intake manifold when the plenums are full of air anyway? |
11-05-2011, 03:28 PM | #2 |
Major General
258
Rep 5,012
Posts |
Better throttle response man, since they're closer to the intake valves. But much more complex and expensive, and typically less fuel efficient. Not worth the minute difference in throttle response IMO. Even Ferraris don't have individual throttle bodies like our M3s (only 2). In fact, no other car has them except NA M engines. I remember reading about another car, but probably an exotic; can't even remember when I read that, or which car. I'd have much preferred not having front strut suspension than individual TBs. Or better brake calipers. Oh well.
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-05-2011, 04:00 PM | #3 | |
Major
195
Rep 1,186
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
R8 V10 6MT
S65 M3 Tesla 3 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2011, 10:06 AM | #4 |
Grease Monkey
293
Rep 2,646
Posts
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
|
What is the problem with the front strut suspension??? The M3 is one of the best handling cars in it's price range, the Macpherson strut suspension is fine!
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2011, 06:38 PM | #5 | |
Captain
28
Rep 842
Posts |
Quote:
x2 on this question. If it works just damn fine, why not have it? In fact, it creates more space and allows the S65 to fit in there, whereas a double wishbone or other type of multi-link would use up more space towards the center of the car. OP, to get into the details of the intake design, you'd have to really get with the engineers that designed it. But to oversimplify it, the enclosed "box" allows matching cylinders to help scavenge air into one another. Each closing set of intake valves under each trumpet essentialy creates a pulse wave (different wave characteristics over the range of engine speed). For each closing set of intake valves, there is a set that is opening. So for a given RPM, or in some cases RPM range, you can match cylinders to help "push" air from the one whose valves are closing to the one whose valves are opening. The plenum design, and where the trumpets are located, the trumpet's diameter, and trumpet's length all factor into this, along with intake and exhaust valve diamater, lift, , exhaust header diameter, header length, etc. Though not exactly accurate, but it helps visualize it, think of the air inside the intake chamber as large baloon that can change shape, and is under constant pressure. The baloon's shape is such that it follows the contour of the intake manifold, and extends to the bottom of each trumpet. Now, as a set of intake valves close, imagine that they push air up through the trumpet and onto this baloon. The baloon is feeling the pressure but has no where to go, but within a nansecond, another set of intake valves open (or the throttle plate under the trumpet), and suddenly the baloon forces its way down that trumpet, due to the pressure it was feeling through the air pushed up from the closing set of valves. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2011, 07:34 PM | #6 | |
Banned
88
Rep 1,105
Posts |
Quote:
I am always amazed at how much engineering there really is that goes into a proper intake manifold. A lot of cars have a variable length intake with 2 or 3 paths depending on RPM. I am wondering why the m3 did not go this route with this engine as from what I have heard it gives you the best of both worlds at all rpms values. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-07-2011, 01:47 PM | #7 |
Major General
2759
Rep 5,483
Posts |
There's a reason I have elp_jc on my block list...
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-07-2011, 02:11 PM | #8 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
731
Rep 3,735
Posts |
Quote:
Throttle response? There is a very large difference between ITB and non ITB along with a very different power delivery.
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-09-2011, 12:13 PM | #9 |
Major General
258
Rep 5,012
Posts |
Who the hell said it was 'something wrong'? There's nothing wrong with the live axle rear suspension on the Mustang Boss302 either. It depends what YOU want, based on use of the car and personal preferences. Every option has pros and cons. I don't personally like struts; that's all. That's exactly the same thing with the brakes. Nothing 'wrong' with the stock setup for normal street use, but MUCH prefer multi-piston calipers myself. And often driving an F430 and M3 back to back, I can categorically tell you the M3 does NOT have better throttle response than the 430 with only 2 TBs. Take your PMS medication folks . Good day.
Last edited by JCtx; 11-09-2011 at 12:19 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-09-2011, 05:11 PM | #10 |
Grease Monkey
293
Rep 2,646
Posts
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
|
I hear ya..... He makes some of the strangest posts on the forum!
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-09-2011, 09:01 PM | #11 |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
307
Rep 13,093
Posts
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas
iTrader: (45)
Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00]
2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00] |
HAHA
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-09-2011, 09:44 PM | #12 |
Panty Schtuffer
21
Rep 320
Posts
Drives: 2008 E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Perth, Orstralya!
|
GTR has ITB's, at least the R32/33/34 did from memory
__________________
.: 2010 E71 X6M - stock, daily driver, towcar :. .: 2008 E92 M3 - 6MT, Carbon Roof, Eibach Springs, Megan Axle Back exhaust :. .: 1997 E36 323i Frankenstein - too much to list, track whore, stripped, caged, MoTeC, S85B50 :. .: 1994 E36 M3 3.0 - 19" BBS LM Reps, Bilsteins :. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-10-2011, 12:14 PM | #13 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
731
Rep 3,735
Posts |
Quote:
You do realize an F430 is a mid-engined car with far stiffer bushings which lend to better response? One a side note, take it easy a bit, nobody is attacking you, you are doing all the attacking. -Malek
__________________
BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 | E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-10-2011, 02:03 PM | #14 |
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
87
Rep 3,850
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-10-2011, 10:42 PM | #15 | |
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
87
Rep 3,850
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-11-2011, 03:27 AM | #16 | |
Grease Monkey
293
Rep 2,646
Posts
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
|
Quote:
The thing I find funniest about elp_jc is the fact that he acts like he knows everything about everything. In all reality he has no idea about ITB's, MacPherson Struts or anything else..... it is all just a good act. People who actually do know can tell by his posts that it is all an act. Don't get me wrong, he does contribute lots of useful info but it is poisoned by the bullshit. What's with the "Now that M3's are a lot more affordable"? It is evident he is a person who thinks himself better than everyone else! I usually try and stay away from criticizing people on here but I have read too many of elp_jc's irritating posts and enough is enough!
__________________
Last edited by BMRLVR; 11-11-2011 at 03:46 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-11-2011, 04:53 AM | #17 | |
Major General
2079
Rep 5,469
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-11-2011, 09:34 AM | #18 |
Go ///M or go home
276
Rep 1,280
Posts |
Shits getting real in this thread...
IB4TL
__________________
2015 AB/SO F80 M3 6MT | 19" Black M437 | KW H.A.S. | AutoTechnik Black Front Grills | BMW Performance Side Grills | Painted Front Bumper Reflectors | Gloss Black Exhaust Tips
GONE 2011 SG/Blk E92 M3 CS 6MT |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|