Leaving the E9X M3 for F8X M3? Don't give up your E9X for anything

[W///]

Originally Posted by AKG M3

The new M4 rolls off the same production line in Munich as the 3 series sedan, 3 series touring, and the 4 series coupe. Nothing special there. Just like a dishwasher, its a white disposable good. Yes, yes, yes, it will be faster, better, more efficient, etc than the previous generation but to my eyes still remains a top of the line dishwasher with all the bells and whistles. And yes, it will be faster than my car, I am not disputing that. I guess what I am trying to say is that the E92 is special. Its like BMW took a race engine and a race car recipe and put it in a 3 series body. With the new model I feel like they just produced a top of the line 3-series...special, yes, just to a lesser degree. And I think we all know its a matter of time before BMW transfers the 3 series production to NA or Mexico and then the M3 and M4 will be built here. No muy especial

Weirdly enough the new M3 will still be built in Regensburg much like the previous M3 E92.

I'm sorry, but have you been to any of those plants? Because it rolls off a specific assembly line makes it more special? I don't see how that has any relevance whatsoever. We can argue about quality and what not, but this is something completely different.

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

Man, I honestly think you are one of the most thoughtful, composed, and logical posters (and great addition) to these forums. I understand a lot of the uncertainty and hesitation from previous E9x and even E46 owners, but I think many forget how the jump has been from generation to generation (well really just the E46 to E92). This generation has many more changes- most of which are hugely different than the former, but I think it's going to perform. I'm glad to see someone else who has an open mind.






I couldn't agree more with you regarding the S65. It is in a league of its own. That's also what made me jump to the E92 from the E46. I had a similar love for the s85. That engine with a solid exhaust sounded like a supercar, no doubt.

Next topic. I disagree that the C7 Z06 (Z07) is not comparable whatsoever. It will cost significantly more and would destroy the F8x in all performance categories. Hell, the C6 Z06 is a comparable car as far as performance is concerned at half the pricetag. Let's keep it apples to apples.



It looks incredibly stupid. I prefer the E.



I think your personal choice would not match the majority. First off, it won't be a flop. It will take time to see, but i think we will start seeing many E46 and E92 owners trading in and up to the F8x, even if it takes until LCI or second-year productions (considering the last two m3 generations had significant problems during the first production runs). People will drink the Kool-aid, just as they did with the E9x and it's going to be a much better car. We're already seeing that as the vehicles roll in.



I can see where you come from and wouldn't debate it. Seems like a logical thought process. No doubt you would save a ton of money and have a car that turns heads based on looks AND aural pleasure.

The only rebuttal I would offer is that the S55 is definitely something special. Maybe not due to sound- but design, specific output in stock form, and power potential are pretty amazing. Also, let's not forget that with stock intake, exhaust, etc and a rough tune this car is making ~50 less hp, but ~135 more tq than an ESS VT2-625 (which was where I was headed with my E92). That's pretty special. Maybe sound does much less than me. My E92 sounded unique, but I've never heard a "terrible" sounding FI BMW engine aftermarket exhaust- especially in catless form.

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad we see eye to eye in this issue. I'll bet you if you went back and looked the first threads about the E9x M3, you'll see E46 owners say that their car is better because:
- BMW's are known for I6. A V8 in an M3 is stupid. Heritage is important!!!
- E46 is lighter
- E46 is so much better looking
- E46 has better steering feel
- E46 will be a collector car because it's the last of the I6 NA. Don't sell yours!
- E46 is perfect size, and E9x is just too dimensionally too big
- E46 is not that much slower in a straight line, but gets better fuel economy
- E9x will be far too expensive, and you might as well get something else because there are better cars out there for the money

Does no one find it hilarious that is exactly what we are talking about right now about E9x vs F80/2?

I can even use the US E36 M3 as another example. The engine (an S50/S52) was more or less a ho hum 328i engine, while the rest of the world got an engine with almost 100 more hp (huge huge difference). The body panels can be swapped right over with a regular 3 series. I just bought myself one, and I have to be honest. For the past 2-3 weeks, I've driven the E92 maybe 3 times. On paper, the E36 should be garbage, but guess what, they aren't. You need to drive one! Literally every single M3 (heck you could say every model) has its pluses and minuses. They've all evolved. And that's what the F80/2 has done.

This is no different than saying steak is better than chicken. On paper, it's more "special", but how the hell would you know unless you went out and tried both? Some people don't like red meat, it's not like you can convince them otherwise right?

I might say that I like the F80 so far, but maybe when I go test drive it, I might be completely underwhelmed. On paper, I loved the F10 and thought it'd be the perfect pair to the E92 M3. Built like a tank, stupid powerful engine, drop dead gorgeous inside and out. But when I drove it, I really completely lost interest in that car and was more than happy to get back in my E92. At least I gave it a chance though.

P.S. And how the hell does anyone know right now if the M3/4 is going to be a flop or a success?

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Yet a lot of 11 sec FBO 335i owners ditched their torque monsters for the S65.
The S55 is just a glorified N55....on a RWD too much torque is a bad thing. Go to your local autocross event and you'll see cars with way less torque run the fastest times and cars with massive amounts of torque like the Z06 struggle to put the power down.

1. Road Racing on big tracks > Autocross
2. S55 takes tech from both N55 and N54
3. Many 335 owners will tell you that their car, albeit being 11 sec cars were no M car (suspension, balance, feel, visuals), and THAT was the bigger reason for the change, NOT the s65.

Your response is not uncommon from most who bash the F8x, but change is inevitable.

Also...let me know how the taillight design looks on the F82.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Careful Driver

I dont track my cars. I am just speaking from real world experience. The M5 allows me to go into bends far far far faster than my ZCP M3. With the M3, if you ever went over these bumps in the highway as you were turning, the traction control would light up and the back of the car would always start giving up. It made you feel insecure. If I entered a bend doing 80, I would know that I am at the maximum, I would feel it.

With the M5, I go into that bend doing 110 and it feels like I am doing 60. Car is so planted, no traction issues, no back giving up. It also gives you so much security, there is so much grip. If I'm turning left, its like something from the left side of the car is pulling me inwards.

Braking is also unbelievable in this car. Dont take this car lightly, it will beat the old M3 in any race track, straight, spirited driving, anywhere. I even bet it will kill SC ones except the ones that are 600+.

If I had to get a turbo car, I would take the new M5 over the new M3. Simply because its still an 8 cylinder. You still feel and hear the V configuration cylinders going bam bam bam on idle. It has that muscle car feel to it, somewhat. It sounds so much better than the M3, both inside and especially outside. Also, as I said before, its just a tiny 0.5 inches wider than the M3.

Also, everything about the new M5 is detail and luxury. Sitting in one, you immediately realize its not some beefed up 5 series. It makes you feel like you are in a luxury car. The new M3 does not feel that way at all. Everything in it is cheap plastic, center console, plastic shit around the gear knob, back of the seats, door seals, doors themselves. BMW made doors thinner than they are on 335 to make things lighter. The seats are also much THINNER than they were in E9X M3. They have no leg extension. So yes the car got bigger and lighter, but dont think for a second it managed to pull that weight because of carbon fibre crank shaft. The gap between regular 3 series and M3 has shrunk this time. Last generation was completely different.

2 huge inaccuracies that I am not even going to waste time addressing.

Originally Posted by Suave

Ok so first credibility mistake is comparing the 335 as it is anywhere near on the level of an M car , much less the F8x which uses a high % of vastly improved engine and handling components over the 335. Second mistake is calling the S55 a glorified engine. I would encourage to read the detailed comparisons on this forums between the two cars and read how this is not a credible statement. Now even a heavily modded 335 will not be the same as an M car. I will say this though in the interest of due process that I will be doing a few auto cross events to see how my times have changed over previous generations of M cars and non M siblings to better qualify my opinions. I have driven them all from the E-30 on down in both stock and modded versions. I regularly swap cars with club members at events so we can compare and find opportunities to squeeze improvement. My 06 330i sport is still one of my all time favorites and did not need much in terms of Mods to make it a great car on the track.

THANK YOU. ^This is on par with any 335 and 135 driver I hve ever tlked to that either made the switch or wanted to make the switch.

[M3/4 life]

I for one can’t wait until this car finally comes out so there can be a head to head non-bias comparison between the F8x & the E9x. What the F8x crowd fails to understand/ realize is the fact that all the previous M’s have been special they have truly been BMW’s motto: The Ultimate Driving Machine. These new model is simply the ultimate technology machine PERIOD! Who ever heard of something as insanely ludicrous as pumping sound into the cabin of a $70,000+ car to trick/ convince the buyer the car sounds desirable?

The fact that these cars run the same 0-60 times tell you that while the F8x will get out the blocks first due to the torque advantage (if you can get traction) the E9x will quickly catch up & pass it. Nevertheless people keep saying this car has all this possibility’s when it comes to tuning, my friends these cars are maxed out leaving the dealership! All a tune will do on these cars is blow the engine & void your warranty on a car that will be the most expensive M ever to get repaired! BMW is going straight to the bank with this new M…..they put a cheap ass engine in it, selling it at the same price point as the E9x that has a $25,000 masterpiece of an engine.

On top of the fact (mark my words) this car is going to stay in the shop with that much torque something will always be broke on this car and that’s not even taking into consideration of the ROCKS that go out there & void there warranty trying to get more power out of it because they just got there ass smoked by an E9x…….people numbers on paper usually never add up when it comes to real world performance! The reason why the true M enthusiast are so pissed about this new car is because BMW changed the recipe……BMW decided that it’s no longer about making the M special it’s about making money off of the M symbol (which is why they’re putting the M logo on everything) hell I wouldn’t be surprised if BMW came out with an M minivan at the rate there going.

Why do you think BMW is being so guarded when it comes to this car? Hell they’re banning people on this forum for posting something negative in the F8x forum….people have you seen any head to head comparisons between the F8x & the E9x? Chris Harris won’t even release his video until the car hits the market. This car is to make up for all the money BMW lost on the
E9x……and they’re pouring as much money into marketing to sell this car as they can. Isn’t it funny the closer & closer it gets to this car coming out that the weight saving numbers continue to decrease? By the time this car comes out in full trim it will be longer & heavier than the E9x or within 50lbs. of it.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Comparative data. It's not far off.

E92 M3 (ZCP)

Figure 8: 25.1 sec @ 0.74 g
Lateral: 0.95 g
60-0: 112'

F10 M5

Figure 8: 24.9 @ 0.81 g
Lateral: 0.94 g
60-0: 110'

Handling and road holding/performance are two totally different concepts. The two often get confused in these conversations. Matters aren't helped by the fact that people often choose to argue as a means to assert themselves, rather than to try and address the misunderstanding.

Handling - How a car feels when you push it to 10/10ths.

Performance and road holding - How well a car performs in a series of instrumented road tests.

When someone says the M3 handles better than the M5, they mean that the car feels better to drive at the limit.

[W///]

Originally Posted by M3/4 life

I for one can’t wait until this car finally comes out so there can be a head to head non-bias comparison between the F8x & the E9x. What the F8x crowd fails to understand/ realize is the fact that all the previous M’s have been special they have truly been BMW’s motto: The Ultimate Driving Machine. These new model is simply the ultimate technology machine PERIOD! Who ever heard of something as insanely ludicrous as pumping sound into the cabin of a $70,000+ car to trick/ convince the buyer the car sounds desirable?

The fact that these cars run the same 0-60 times tell you that while the F8x will get out the blocks first due to the torque advantage (if you can get traction) the E9x will quickly catch up & pass it. Nevertheless people keep saying this car has all this possibility’s when it comes to tuning, my friends these cars are maxed out leaving the dealership! All a tune will do on these cars is blow the engine & void your warranty on a car that will be the most expensive M ever to get repaired! BMW is going straight to the bank with this new M…..they put a cheap ass engine in it, selling it at the same price point as the E9x that has a $25,000 masterpiece of an engine.

On top of the fact (mark my words) this car is going to stay in the shop with that much torque something will always be broke on this car and that’s not even taking into consideration of the ROCKS that go out there & void there warranty trying to get more power out of it because they just got there ass smoked by an E9x…….people numbers on paper usually never add up when it comes to real world performance! The reason why the true M enthusiast are so pissed about this new car is because BMW changed the recipe……BMW decided that it’s no longer about making the M special it’s about making money off of the M symbol (which is why they’re putting the M logo on everything) hell I wouldn’t be surprised if BMW came out with an M minivan at the rate there going.

Why do you think BMW is being so guarded when it comes to this car? Hell they’re banning people on this forum for posting something negative in the F8x forum….people have you seen any head to head comparisons between the F8x & the E9x? Chris Harris won’t even release his video until the car hits the market. This car is to make up for all the money BMW lost on the
E9x……and they’re pouring as much money into marketing to sell this car as they can. Isn’t it funny the closer & closer it gets to this car coming out that the weight saving numbers continue to decrease? By the time this car comes out in full trim it will be longer & heavier than the E9x or within 50lbs. of it.

Not even sure why I'm responding to this, but I guess it is a slow morning, so why not. I'll respond to each paragraph you wrote:

1) How was the US E36 M3 special? Shared all same body panels as stock 3er, engine was more or less from a 328i. Also, have you ever driven a car with the whole active sound thing? If the answer is no, then you really shouldn't comment. I've driven the M6 coupe and honestly could not tell the different. If it bothers you that much, someone somewhere will figure out how to disable it, so moot point in my opinion

2) You are running a tune on your E92 as well so I'm not sure how that makes any difference. I haven't seen one thing that would make anyone think that stock for stock, an E9x can keep up with the new car. The F80/2 will be one of the most expensive M's to repair? How about that glorious S65 of ours, should the rod bearings go? Or for me specifically, if my diff bolt snaps?

3) How would you know that? This is no different than F10 vs E60. You can argue about how the V10 was more special in every way (and you'd have a point), but have you EVER seen an E60 M5 beat an F10 M5, stock for stock. Like, forever and ever and ever? If you have, please send me a video.

And this whole BS about ///M selling out. BMW released this M535i in the 80s. Would you just look at those M stripes. If you think the "sellout" just started in circa 2012, you are gravely mistaken. And honestly, I don't care. Porsche builds more soccer mom cars than actual sports cars annually. Porsche Cayenne diesels fly off the showroom floor faster than a 911 does. Does that mean you and I wouldn't purchase a GT3, just out of principle and spite? I sure hope not.



4) Chris Harris has released a video in over 3 weeks. What does that have anything to do with anything? And where did you read BMW lost money on every E9x M3 made? Let's stick to facts here.

[SOM3]

Originally Posted by Careful Driver

I dont track my cars. I am just speaking from real world experience. The M5 allows me to go into bends far far far faster than my ZCP M3. With the M3, if you ever went over these bumps in the highway as you were turning, the traction control would light up and the back of the car would always start giving up. It made you feel insecure. If I entered a bend doing 80, I would know that I am at the maximum, I would feel it.

With the M5, I go into that bend doing 110 and it feels like I am doing 60. Car is so planted, no traction issues, no back giving up. It also gives you so much security, there is so much grip. If I'm turning left, its like something from the left side of the car is pulling me inwards.

Braking is also unbelievable in this car. Dont take this car lightly, it will beat the old M3 in any race track, straight, spirited driving, anywhere. I even bet it will kill SC ones except the ones that are 600+.

If I had to get a turbo car, I would take the new M5 over the new M3. Simply because its still an 8 cylinder. You still feel and hear the V configuration cylinders going bam bam bam on idle. It has that muscle car feel to it, somewhat. It sounds so much better than the M3, both inside and especially outside. Also, as I said before, its just a tiny 0.5 inches wider than the M3.

Also, everything about the new M5 is detail and luxury. Sitting in one, you immediately realize its not some beefed up 5 series. It makes you feel like you are in a luxury car. The new M3 does not feel that way at all. Everything in it is cheap plastic, center console, plastic shit around the gear knob, back of the seats, door seals, doors themselves. BMW made doors thinner than they are on 335 to make things lighter. The seats are also much THINNER than they were in E9X M3. They have no leg extension. So yes the car got bigger and lighter, but dont think for a second it managed to pull that weight because of carbon fibre crank shaft. The gap between regular 3 series and M3 has shrunk this time. Last generation was completely different.

You speak as though someone held a gun to your head and made you switch to M5.

You throw out these exaggerated opinions out there like a spoiled little brat that just got slighted/cheated. Relax man, everybody has a right to make their own choices.

Now go ahead sell your M5 and jump into F8X you so desperately want.

[Krockit1]

OP sorry you are unhappy with that M5. I feel your pain. E9x M3 is a tough measure for any performance car to live up to. But this thread more than proves the very first rule of auto ownership. EVERYTHING is subjective. Everything. There is no right or wrong here. Just a bunch of blathering two cents posing as facts because it's "published" on an open forum.

Regarding the M4, considering the bloody thing isn't even on the street yet all the conjecture is useless- until the car can be owned, flogged on track days by amateurs and broken a few times nobody knows what is really what. My question to the naysayers- would you put up cold hard cash instead of heated hollow words in a bet against the car's success?

[nicebraces]

Originally Posted by W///

Not even sure why I'm responding to this, but I guess it is a slow morning, so why not. I'll respond to each paragraph you wrote:

1) How was the US E36 M3 special? Shared all same body panels as stock 3er, engine was more or less from a 328i. Also, have you ever driven a car with the whole active sound thing? If the answer is no, then you really shouldn't comment. I've driven the M6 coupe and honestly could not tell the different. If it bothers you that much, someone somewhere will figure out how to disable it, so moot point in my opinion

2) You are running a tune on your E92 as well so I'm not sure how that makes any difference. I haven't seen one thing that would make anyone think that stock for stock, an E9x can keep up with the new car. The F80/2 will be one of the most expensive M's to repair? How about that glorious S65 of ours, should the rod bearings go? Or for me specifically, if my diff bolt snaps?

3) How would you know that? This is no different than F10 vs E60. You can argue about how the V10 was more special in every way (and you'd have a point), but have you EVER seen an E60 M5 beat an F10 M5, stock for stock. Like, forever and ever and ever? If you have, please send me a video.

And this whole BS about ///M selling out. BMW released this M535i in the 80s. Would you just look at those M stripes. If you think the "sellout" just started in circa 2012, you are gravely mistaken. And honestly, I don't care. Porsche builds more soccer mom cars than actual sports cars annually. Porsche Cayenne diesels fly off the showroom floor faster than a 911 does. Does that mean you and I wouldn't purchase a GT3, just out of principle and spite? I sure hope not.



4) Chris Harris has released a video in over 3 weeks. What does that have anything to do with anything? And where did you read BMW lost money on every E9x M3 made? Let's stick to facts here.

Hey, Porsche Cayenne's are not only for soccer moms, especially the Turbo S variants ...

[W///]

Originally Posted by nicebraces

Hey, Porsche Cayenne's are not only for soccer moms, especially the Turbo S variants ...

Oh don't get me wrong, I absolutely love those things, but the purists will tell you that the only car that Porsche should make is a 911 and that's it.

Those Cayenne's are just gorgeous inside out. Hell I'd love to DD a diesel myself, they are great cars.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by W///

2) You are running a tune on your E92 as well so I'm not sure how that makes any difference. I haven't seen one thing that would make anyone think that stock for stock, an E9x can keep up with the new car. The F80/2 will be one of the most expensive M's to repair? How about that glorious S65 of ours, should the rod bearings go? Or for me specifically, if my diff bolt snaps?

I am sure glad you addressed this before I did. I will be happy to offer my services in a head to head with any stock E9X to see in what planet or performance (sound is not performance) measure does the car excel over the F8x. No way will you see a stock e9x pass the f8x at any speed through the limiter. But hey if you want to spend another 20-25k in Mods and end up paying more than I did for the F80x just to edge me out by 2 seconds to 100mph then awesome and whatever makes you happy. I sincerely mean that as all M cars gives us options to find something just right for our taste and at the price point that is the way it should be. Nevertheless just for funsies we will test this out next week when our Bimmerpost group begins our 9 day road tour right after we quickly reach break-in mileage! Stay tuned

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by M3/4 life

I for one can’t wait until this car finally comes out so there can be a head to head non-bias comparison between the F8x & the E9x. What the F8x crowd fails to understand/ realize is the fact that all the previous M’s have been special they have truly been BMW’s motto: The Ultimate Driving Machine. These new model is simply the ultimate technology machine PERIOD! Who ever heard of something as insanely ludicrous as pumping sound into the cabin of a $70,000+ car to trick/ convince the buyer the car sounds desirable?

The fact that these cars run the same 0-60 times tell you that while the F8x will get out the blocks first due to the torque advantage (if you can get traction) the E9x will quickly catch up & pass it. Nevertheless people keep saying this car has all this possibility’s when it comes to tuning, my friends these cars are maxed out leaving the dealership! All a tune will do on these cars is blow the engine & void your warranty on a car that will be the most expensive M ever to get repaired! BMW is going straight to the bank with this new M…..they put a cheap ass engine in it, selling it at the same price point as the E9x that has a $25,000 masterpiece of an engine.

On top of the fact (mark my words) this car is going to stay in the shop with that much torque something will always be broke on this car and that’s not even taking into consideration of the ROCKS that go out there & void there warranty trying to get more power out of it because they just got there ass smoked by an E9x…….people numbers on paper usually never add up when it comes to real world performance! The reason why the true M enthusiast are so pissed about this new car is because BMW changed the recipe……BMW decided that it’s no longer about making the M special it’s about making money off of the M symbol (which is why they’re putting the M logo on everything) hell I wouldn’t be surprised if BMW came out with an M minivan at the rate there going.

Why do you think BMW is being so guarded when it comes to this car? Hell they’re banning people on this forum for posting something negative in the F8x forum….people have you seen any head to head comparisons between the F8x & the E9x? Chris Harris won’t even release his video until the car hits the market. This car is to make up for all the money BMW lost on the
E9x……and they’re pouring as much money into marketing to sell this car as they can. Isn’t it funny the closer & closer it gets to this car coming out that the weight saving numbers continue to decrease? By the time this car comes out in full trim it will be longer & heavier than the E9x or within 50lbs. of it.

I'm not as mature as W///, so I will just go out on a limb and say that literally every point you thought you made was unbased and incredibly inaccurate-other than the shared desire for these cars to come out so we can see some unbiased comparos. That is all.

Originally Posted by W///

Not even sure why I'm responding to this, but I guess it is a slow morning, so why not. I'll respond to each paragraph you wrote:

1) How was the US E36 M3 special? Shared all same body panels as stock 3er, engine was more or less from a 328i. Also, have you ever driven a car with the whole active sound thing? If the answer is no, then you really shouldn't comment. I've driven the M6 coupe and honestly could not tell the different. If it bothers you that much, someone somewhere will figure out how to disable it, so moot point in my opinion

2) You are running a tune on your E92 as well so I'm not sure how that makes any difference. I haven't seen one thing that would make anyone think that stock for stock, an E9x can keep up with the new car. The F80/2 will be one of the most expensive M's to repair? How about that glorious S65 of ours, should the rod bearings go? Or for me specifically, if my diff bolt snaps?

3) How would you know that? This is no different than F10 vs E60. You can argue about how the V10 was more special in every way (and you'd have a point), but have you EVER seen an E60 M5 beat an F10 M5, stock for stock. Like, forever and ever and ever? If you have, please send me a video.

And this whole BS about ///M selling out. BMW released this M535i in the 80s. Would you just look at those M stripes. If you think the "sellout" just started in circa 2012, you are gravely mistaken. And honestly, I don't care. Porsche builds more soccer mom cars than actual sports cars annually. Porsche Cayenne diesels fly off the showroom floor faster than a 911 does. Does that mean you and I wouldn't purchase a GT3, just out of principle and spite? I sure hope not.

4) Chris Harris has released a video in over 3 weeks. What does that have anything to do with anything? And where did you read BMW lost money on every E9x M3 made? Let's stick to facts here.

Another great response on your part. I would like to mention just a couple things for further amplification.

1. I agree. Active sound is not that that noticeable. Additionally, for the people who hate it, a fix has been found other than coding:

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...=680384&page=5

2. The F8x destroys the E92 M3 in a straight line and he is disillusioned, that's all.

3. Your diff bolt snapped, too? Luckily, I was able to get all of mine replaced under warranty, even with all the performance mods (including suspension/camber kit and track wheels/tires)

Originally Posted by nicebraces

Hey, Porsche Cayenne's are not only for soccer moms, especially the Turbo S variants ...

Agreed. They are pretty damn cool. I'm also actually really impressed with the Macan! I checked one out the other day and it was leaps and bounds beyond what I thought it was going to be. I think it's going to sell like crazy.

Originally Posted by W///

Oh don't get me wrong, I absolutely love those things, but the purists will tell you that the only car that Porsche should make is a 911 and that's it.

Those Cayenne's are just gorgeous inside out. Hell I'd love to DD a diesel myself, they are great cars.

[M3/4 life]

Originally Posted by W///

Not even sure why I'm responding to this, but I guess it is a slow morning, so why not. I'll respond to each paragraph you wrote:

1) How was the US E36 M3 special? Shared all same body panels as stock 3er, engine was more or less from a 328i. Also, have you ever driven a car with the whole active sound thing? If the answer is no, then you really shouldn't comment. I've driven the M6 coupe and honestly could not tell the different. If it bothers you that much, someone somewhere will figure out how to disable it, so moot point in my opinion

2) You are running a tune on your E92 as well so I'm not sure how that makes any difference. I haven't seen one thing that would make anyone think that stock for stock, an E9x can keep up with the new car. The F80/2 will be one of the most expensive M's to repair? How about that glorious S65 of ours, should the rod bearings go? Or for me specifically, if my diff bolt snaps?

3) How would you know that? This is no different than F10 vs E60. You can argue about how the V10 was more special in every way (and you'd have a point), but have you EVER seen an E60 M5 beat an F10 M5, stock for stock. Like, forever and ever and ever? If you have, please send me a video.

And this whole BS about ///M selling out. BMW released this M535i in the 80s. Would you just look at those M stripes. If you think the "sellout" just started in circa 2012, you are gravely mistaken. And honestly, I don't care. Porsche builds more soccer mom cars than actual sports cars annually. Porsche Cayenne diesels fly off the showroom floor faster than a 911 does. Does that mean you and I wouldn't purchase a GT3, just out of principle and spite? I sure hope not.



4) Chris Harris has released a video in over 3 weeks. What does that have anything to do with anything? And where did you read BMW lost money on every E9x M3 made? Let's stick to facts here.

I’m not even going to address this rod bearing rumor because anyone that is stupid enough to only get their oil changed every 10 to 15k because of the maintenance warranty deserves to have rod bearing issues……

Was the E36 not progress over the E30? And for that time it was indeed special matter of fact that was the M I feel in love with & made me want an M.

No, I’ve never driven a car with active sound what’s the point……have you ever been pissed on & told that it’s raining?

As far as you seeing anything suggesting that the E9x can keep pace with the new car, why would someone expose that? Wouldn’t that mess up sales? That why I for one can’t wait until this car finally comes out so there can be a head to head non-bias comparison between the F8x & the E9x.

I never once stated anything about a V10 or comparing M5 from each generation……could truly care less about the M5 or M6 if I wanted a 4000lbs + straight line rocket I would just throw a supercharger on the wife’s Lexus RX suv and Walla

Whatever happened to that 535M from the 80’s?

As for a Porsche goes, they’ve managed to come full circle! They have the soccer moms cars, they have their track car in the GT3, they have turbo, they still have their N/A cars they even have a convertible as well as a diesel. Porsche has a car for anybody of any age if you have enough money to own one. However, I’ve yet to see a 911 Boxter or a 911 Cayenne or 911 Cayman etc. However, there’s a 1M a 2M, 3M, 4M, 5M, 6M, X5M, X6M, M235M435 need I go on?

You seem like a smart guy you tell me how BMW lost money by putting a $25,000 engine in the E9xM in midst of an economic meltdown…..

[1MOREMOD]

Is the world coming to and end again?

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Suave

I am sure glad you addressed this before I did. I will be happy to offer my services in a head to head with any stock E9X to see in what planet or performance (sound is not performance) measure does the car excel over the F8x. No way will you see a stock e9x pass the f8x at any speed through the limiter. But hey if you want to spend another 20-25k in Mods and end up paying more than I did for the F80x just to edge me out by 2 seconds to 100mph then awesome and whatever makes you happy. I sincerely mean that as all M cars gives us options to find something just right for our taste and at the price point that is the way it should be. Nevertheless just for funsies we will test this out next week when our Bimmerpost group begins our 9 day road tour right after we quickly reach break-in mileage! Stay tuned

This reminded me of the quote from Step Brothers.

The E9x is faster than the F8x on planet bullsh** in the galaxy of this sucks camel di**!

[M3/4 life]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I'm not as mature as W///, so I will just go out on a limb and say that literally every point you thought you made was unbased and incredibly inaccurate-other than the shared desire for these cars to come out so we can see some unbiased comparos. That is all.



Another great response on your part. I would like to mention just a couple things for further amplification.

1. I agree. Active sound is not that that noticeable. Additionally, for the people who hate it, a fix has been found other than coding:

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...=680384&page=5

2. The F8x destroys the E92 M3 in a straight line and he is disillusioned, that's all.

3. Your diff bolt snapped, too? Luckily, I was able to get all of mine replaced under warranty, even with all the performance mods (including suspension/camber kit and track wheels/tires)




Agreed. They are pretty damn cool. I'm also actually really impressed with the Macan! I checked one out the other day and it was leaps and bounds beyond what I thought it was going to be. I think it's going to sell like crazy.

One thing I will give BMW credit for is their marketing strategy has definitely worked! Let's continue this conversation in 6 months.....then we'll have some real world facts. I truly can't wait!

[JRV]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Is the world coming to and end again?

yes, every 6-7 years a Civil war breaks out in cyber space

[///M///]

This happens every 6-7 years when the new model is about to be released People with the current generation M's bash the new one just to make themselves feel better about what they have. It happened when the E9X M3 was coming out as well. Everyone with a E46 M3 hated how the E9X looked and most of them are jumping into a E9X.

Personally I don't like the way the new M looks but very soon our E9X will start looking dated and the new M will grow on me and I'll buy it, love it till the next M comes along in 2021 and we will all be bashing that So this is nothing new. Carry on the bashing............

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by JRV

yes, every 6-7 years a Civil war breaks out in cyber space

Okay I thought I felt a part of the sky falling. I didn't like the e9x looks at first, then bought one. It grew on me substantially. Feel the same about the f8x ie it's ugly but won't be buying.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by M3/4 life

1. I’m not even going to address this rod bearing rumor because anyone that is stupid enough to only get their oil changed every 10 to 15k because of the maintenance warranty deserves to have rod bearing issues……

2. Was the E36 not progress over the E30? And for that time it was indeed special matter of fact that was the M I feel in love with & made me want an M.

3. No, I’ve never driven a car with active sound what’s the point……have you ever been pissed on & told that it’s raining?

4. As far as you seeing anything suggesting that the E9x can keep pace with the new car, why would someone expose that? Wouldn’t that mess up sales? That why I for one can’t wait until this car finally comes out so there can be a head to head non-bias comparison between the F8x & the E9x.

5. I never once stated anything about a V10 or comparing M5 from each generation……could truly care less about the M5 or M6 if I wanted a 4000lbs + straight line rocket I would just throw a supercharger on the wife’s Lexus RX suv and Walla

6. Whatever happened to that 535M from the 80’s?

7. As for a Porsche goes, they’ve managed to come full circle! They have the soccer moms cars, they have their track car in the GT3, they have turbo, they still have their N/A cars they even have a convertible as well as a diesel. Porsche has a car for anybody of any age if you have enough money to own one. However, I’ve yet to see a 911 Boxter or a 911 Cayenne or 911 Cayman etc. However, there’s a 1M a 2M, 3M, 4M, 5M, 6M, X5M, X6M, M235M435 need I go on?

8. You seem like a smart guy you tell me how BMW lost money by putting a $25,000 engine in the E9xM in midst of an economic meltdown…..

Now I have to respond. I numbered each of your statements for simplicity of response.

1. You think it was lack of maintenance and not design flaw? IIRC, they replaced mny engines under warranty and even out of warranty on goodwill and changed bearing part #s sometime in 2011. Nice try, though.

2. It was special to you, but I bet the majority would disagree. I would say it is far less "special" than the F8x is to the E9x. Everyone could agree that the E9x was truly a special car.

3. If you don't know anything about it, never experienced it, or read into the details of those who disabled it, then you probably should reserve your negativity.

4. Everything that has been posted thus far (INCLUDING OFFICIAL NUMBERS FROM THE AUTO MANUFACTURER ITSELF) has suggested that the F8x is significantly faster. But keep living in magic land where the fairies ride unicorns over the rainbows.

5. He was relating your ignorance to the M5.

6. Who cares?

7. "M" is different than "911". WTF are you talking about? Using it like that for your side of the argument would be M3X5, M3X3, M31M, M3M235i, M3750, M3335D, etc. I think you're lost. I can agree that BMW has certainly diluted the "M" by putting it on everything these days.

8. That engine design didn't begin when the market crashed (or even near it) Let's be real here. Erroneous, yet again.

[W///]

Originally Posted by M3/4 life

I’m not even going to address this rod bearing rumor because anyone that is stupid enough to only get their oil changed every 10 to 15k because of the maintenance warranty deserves to have rod bearing issues……

Was the E36 not progress over the E30? And for that time it was indeed special matter of fact that was the M I feel in love with & made me want an M.

No, I’ve never driven a car with active sound what’s the point……have you ever been pissed on & told that it’s raining?

As far as you seeing anything suggesting that the E9x can keep pace with the new car, why would someone expose that? Wouldn’t that mess up sales? That why I for one can’t wait until this car finally comes out so there can be a head to head non-bias comparison between the F8x & the E9x.

I never once stated anything about a V10 or comparing M5 from each generation……could truly care less about the M5 or M6 if I wanted a 4000lbs + straight line rocket I would just throw a supercharger on the wife’s Lexus RX suv and Walla

Whatever happened to that 535M from the 80’s?

As for a Porsche goes, they’ve managed to come full circle! They have the soccer moms cars, they have their track car in the GT3, they have turbo, they still have their N/A cars they even have a convertible as well as a diesel. Porsche has a car for anybody of any age if you have enough money to own one. However, I’ve yet to see a 911 Boxter or a 911 Cayenne or 911 Cayman etc. However, there’s a 1M a 2M, 3M, 4M, 5M, 6M, X5M, X6M, M235M435 need I go on?

You seem like a smart guy you tell me how BMW lost money by putting a $25,000 engine in the E9xM in midst of an economic meltdown…..

I personally know of an E90 M3, that is a 1 owner (well known forum member actually), that has changed his oil religiously, with TWS, knows proper warm up sequence, yet still had his rod bearings go. I'm not saying that you will for sure have rod bearing failure, but it is a small possibility. Which is why I monitor my oil religiously, but that's another story that should be left for the engine subforum and not this one. My point is this: Should something go wrong with the E9x M3, it'll be very costly. I'd be willing to bet that MOST forum members here don't go all the way to 15k miles before an oil change.

You say the E36 was progress over the E30? Depends how you look at it. In the US (which is where you and I are at the moment), we got a non-bespoke engine, same body panels as a regular 3 series minus the bumpers and side skirts, and a weaker diff than ROW. Is it special on paper? Not at all, but I'm enjoying driving the hell out of that car. If you fell in love with a ho hum E36 M3, which is probably the bastard child of the M3 world, then shouldn't the F80/2 deserve a chance?

Like I said, I have no idea why you'd even think our V8's can keep up with the new car. In the real world or on the track (unless the turboed M3s overheat, we'll see about that). I don't care that you aren't interested in an M5 or M6. My point was to show you what turbos can do. The E60 is HUNDREDS of lbs lighter than the F10, yet it will get spanked it every day of the week. The F80 at worst case is as heavy as E9x, but has more power (anyone want to bet 420hp is underrated?) and has 100+ more ft-lbs of torque. Do the math. If the Nurburgring times are to be believed, it's significantly faster than an E9x. I just cannot for the life of me comprehend where you came up with the idea than an E9x can hang with the F80/2.

I'm not saying an S65 is not an expensive engine, but if you for one second think that it costs BMW $25,000 to make each S65, you are very wrong. Companies like Lexus loses money on something exotic like an LFA because literally everything is bespoke. An E92 M3 has the same chassis as an E92 318i.

The reason I included that M535i was to show that BMW has been using ///M to sell cars for DECADES. Hell, how do you think the M-sport package started? I just find it hilarious that people think F80/2 was when BMW started "selling out".

P.S. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but I feel like it's only a matter of time before Porsche is 100% turboed too. It's already started with the Cayman and Boxster (let's not even talk about the other mainstream Porsches). I have almost no doubt the Carreras will go full turbos too. Whether the GT3 (GT3 RS is rumored to be turboed) will stay NA, we'll probably see next generation.

IMHO, the exception will be the American muscle cars, which HAVE to have a V8.

[M3/4 life]

The funny thing is the only people who are truly butt hurt are the clowns who think something new equals something better & went out and ordered the F8x without first test driving it…..lol! Who buys a new car the first model year that hasn’t yet been proven….at least wait until all the hype dies down so you will know fact vs. fiction…..Wow

A turbo with 11 more hp than a stock V8…..that’s some stupid shit! Hell, if you’re going to put a turbo in place of a V8 at least give it 100 more hp than the old M!

Well at least we know the new M will be better at towing a boat! Torque #’s equal B.S. if the car is not 4 wheel drive like the GTR