Advice requested: Considering going from 335 to M3

[GeoXP]

I literally JUST made this change. FWIW, I'm in love with the M3 so far. I went from an 08 335i with sport package to a new loaded M3. The 335 was, in my opinion, an awesome car. The things I've noticed so far, the ride in the M is actually better, when in comfort mode, than my old 3. In Normal mode, it's about the same. The engines and power are vastly different. The 335 has great torque and can really go when in the middle of the revs, making it easier to drive in city conditions as you don't necessarily have to shift down to get some power and get out of a jam, or merge. But the M just pulls, hard, from about 4K to redline. With the real crescendo coming in the upper range. And the sound of it is amazing! Gas mileage may be something I miss, as I could get 30 on the highway if I behaved. But I didn't get the M to save gas. I wanted to experience that V8 as well as the handling. You really just have to decide what is important to you. If you want a great car that gets good gas mileage, stick with the 335. Even modded you can get some great speed and power while still getting 20+ MPG. If, however you want to have the ultimate in power and handling in a singular package, and aren't so much worried about fuel costs, then get the M. Both cars are amazing, they just serve different tastes.

[gthal]

Based on your commute and usage, I think the M3 is a waste for you. I use mine as a year round DD with a short commute too. However, I take it out every weekend for spirited drives, will do so some evenings and get to the track 3-5 times a year. If you won't be getting a chance to drive the car other than the commute, then it is really just an expensive badge.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by e1000

Depending on your driving characteristics, you will spend more than $21 more in gas/mo alone.

Sounds like you're cutting it too close, keep the 335i.

Excellent point. Unless you gave yourself a very generous gas budget, if $21/mo will make the difference to you then don't get the M3 because yes, your monthly gas cost can EASILY fluctuate that much based on your driving. Do you really want to end up saying "I want to drive it hard but can't afford to...."?

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by e1000

Seriously? $21/mo will compromise your comfortable financial position? wow.

Originally Posted by jphughan

That's my thought too. I mean I guess you have to draw the line somewhere, but if you've already set the bar so high that you can't stretch that much for a car you really want, then you might want to rethink how high you set your bar in the first place.

I know it sounds odd, but I had to draw the line somewhere, and I did at $41,500 for the total loan. Some would call me cheap, but that was my decision having run all the numbers. I had already budgeted in $500-600 extra in gas per year (using conservative numbers from the fueleconomy.gov website) and factored in my exact higher insurance costs. Could I do another $20/month? Of course - I make decent money and so I'd hardly be easting ramen noodles, but that extra money suddenly eats away at what I had budgeted for insurance. Perhaps I'm overly conscious of my financial state. I just didn't want to go more - I was already looking at a sizeable loan over the course of six years.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by e1000

Depending on your driving characteristics, you will spend more than $21 more in gas/mo alone.

Sounds like you're cutting it too close, keep the 335i.

Originally Posted by jphughan

Excellent point. Unless you gave yourself a very generous gas budget, if $21/mo will make the difference to you then don't get the M3 because yes, your monthly gas cost can EASILY fluctuate that much based on your driving. Do you really want to end up saying "I want to drive it hard but can't afford to...."?

Yea, friggin' gas mileage is the worst thing about the M3. I can get over 30 on the freeway with my 335. Like I just said above, I did comparisons on the fueleconomy.gov website - whatever that's worth. It's all I have to go by, aside from mileage research here, of which I did plenty. And so I figured $500-600 more a year. That was figured into my budget and decision not to do a loan higher than $41,500.

But, yea, what if I'm loving the higher revs? I'm not going to be seeing 14/20.

[dbhg1124]

OP, not trying to be harsh but I can guarantee your fuel numbers are off as well, the M drinks gas like I drink on the weekend. Secondly, if you are worried about $21 a month then you should not be looking at an M3, look into a car that is more financially savvy for you. Not trying to be mean just pointing out the facts. At the end of the day its only money you can't take it with you at the end of the day you live once brotha.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by 517

I know it sounds odd, but I had to draw the line somewhere, and I did at $41,500 for the total loan. Some would call me cheap, but that was my decision having run all the numbers. I had already budgeted in $500-600 extra in gas per year (using conservative numbers from the fueleconomy.gov website) and factored in my exact higher insurance costs. Could I do another $20/month? Of course - I make decent money and so I'd hardly be easting ramen noodles, but that extra money suddenly eats away at what I had budgeted for insurance. Perhaps I'm overly conscious of my financial state. I just didn't want to go more - I was already looking at a sizeable loan over the course of six years.

$550/year = $45/month. Depending on where you live, that's not even one extra tank of gas compared to your 335. Believe me, if you drive this thing the way you'd need to in order to get any real enjoyment out of it and thereby make it worthwhile to have, you'll be consuming at LEAST 2 extra tanks of gas per month. But as others have said, given your intended usage and what you've let us know about your finances and considerations thus far, this doesn't sound like it would make sense. And a 6-year loan is awfully long, especially for a used car. If you need to do that to get payments within a comfortable range, this might not be a good idea, especially once you calculate how much you'll be throwing away in interest over that time.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by GeoXP

I literally JUST made this change. FWIW, I'm in love with the M3 so far. I went from an 08 335i with sport package to a new loaded M3. The 335 was, in my opinion, an awesome car. The things I've noticed so far, the ride in the M is actually better, when in comfort mode, than my old 3. In Normal mode, it's about the same. The engines and power are vastly different. The 335 has great torque and can really go when in the middle of the revs, making it easier to drive in city conditions as you don't necessarily have to shift down to get some power and get out of a jam, or merge. But the M just pulls, hard, from about 4K to redline. With the real crescendo coming in the upper range. And the sound of it is amazing! Gas mileage may be something I miss, as I could get 30 on the highway if I behaved. But I didn't get the M to save gas. I wanted to experience that V8 as well as the handling. You really just have to decide what is important to you. If you want a great car that gets good gas mileage, stick with the 335. Even modded you can get some great speed and power while still getting 20+ MPG. If, however you want to have the ultimate in power and handling in a singular package, and aren't so much worried about fuel costs, then get the M. Both cars are amazing, they just serve different tastes.

Well put, thanks for the advice.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by jphughan

$550/year = $45/month. Depending on where you live, that's not even one extra tank of gas compared to your 335. Believe me, if you drive this thing the way you'd need to in order to get any real enjoyment out of it and thereby make it worthwhile to have, you'll be consuming at LEAST 2 extra tanks of gas per month. But as others have said, given your intended usage and what you've let us know about your finances and considerations thus far, this doesn't sound like it would make sense. And a 6-year loan is awfully long, especially for a used car. If you need to do that to get payments within a comfortable range, this might not be a good idea, especially once you calculate how much you'll be throwing away in interest over that time.

Yea, very good point(s). Sounds like I made the right decision, as tough as it has been. I keep going back to online ad every day debating about it... Perhaps just holding tight and getting a F32 335/435i is the best option. It's just that I want to join the M crowd!

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by 517

Yea, very good point(s). Sounds like I made the right decision, as tough as it has been. I keep going back to online ad every day debating about it... Perhaps just holding tight and getting a F32 335/435i is the best option. It's just that I want to join the M crowd!

We'll still be here when the time is right.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by dbhg1124

OP, not trying to be harsh but I can guarantee your fuel numbers are off as well, the M drinks gas like I drink on the weekend. Secondly, if you are worried about $21 a month then you should not be looking at an M3, look into a car that is more financially savvy for you. Not trying to be mean just pointing out the facts. At the end of the day its only money you can't take it with you at the end of the day you live once brotha.

No offense taken. I came here for advice. Thanks for your input.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by 517

I know it sounds odd, but I had to draw the line somewhere, and I did at $41,500 for the total loan. Some would call me cheap, but that was my decision having run all the numbers. I had already budgeted in $500-600 extra in gas per year (using conservative numbers from the fueleconomy.gov website) and factored in my exact higher insurance costs. Could I do another $20/month? Of course - I make decent money and so I'd hardly be easting ramen noodles, but that extra money suddenly eats away at what I had budgeted for insurance. Perhaps I'm overly conscious of my financial state. I just didn't want to go more - I was already looking at a sizeable loan over the course of six years.

Making smart financial moves is not a bad idea and it seems like you have a good sense for this. In your case, I do feel like the M3 is a bit of a waste... more costly to run and maintain and you won't benefit from the best parts of owning it. Don't get me wrong, the M3 is a great DD but if you have limited opportunity to push the car in a spirited way, it is really just an expense badge and the only real upside is the additional "prestige" over the 335i. It is like a friend of mine who owns a Corvette and never, ever, ever drives the car in a spirited way... to me it is a waste and the only reason he owns it is to look "cool". Not that this is your motive, just that for what you are describing, the 335i is probably the more economical choice while maintaining some of the M3 fun.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by jphughan

We'll still be here when the time is right.

Ha, thanks! If only that bitch didn't slurp gas, it would be a much easier decision.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by gthal

Making smart financial moves is not a bad idea and it seems like you have a good sense for this. In your case, I do feel like the M3 is a bit of a waste... more costly to run and maintain and you won't benefit from the best parts of owning it. Don't get me wrong, the M3 is a great DD but if you have limited opportunity to push the car in a spirited way, it is really just an expense badge and the only real upside is the additional "prestige" over the 335i. It is like a friend of mine who owns a Corvette and never, ever, ever drives the car in a spirited way... to me it is a waste and the only reason he owns it is to look "cool". Not that this is your motive, just that for what you are describing, the 335i is probably the more economical choice while maintaining some of the M3 fun.

Yea, I definitely would not be buying it to be like your buddy - I'd use its abilites when presented with the opportunity (I've tracked this car and previous E46s). But for my current driving tendencies, I guess it would basically be a pretigious badge (that slurps gas like a Mac truck).

Thanks, guys, for your input. Basically you've mostly just re-affirmed that my gut instincts were right. Being responsible sucks.

[Smokey]

I can’t believe you did all that financial computation without a test drive. You need to drive one to see if it suits your needs. The M, unlike the 335i, requires revving the engine to enjoy it—if you love that, then you’ll enjoy the heck out of it. The handling and the glorious sound of the v8 are worth the extra $21, imo. Are you buying a coupe or sedan? I asked because you mentioned insurance premium-- my e90 m3 is actually cheaper to insure than my 335is.

[M3er]

Originally Posted by 517

I've had my E92 335i for exactly three years (bought it brand new) and it's the best car, let alone BMW, that I've owned. It's fast, gets good mileage, turns heads, etc. Like many 335 owners, however, the M3 has always intrigued me because, well, it's an M3. I originally planned on an M3 before it came out but the MSRP was a little out of my range, so I settled with my 335.

Recently I found a 2009 M3, loaded, low mileage, non-CPO but with warranty until 4/2013 and extended maintenance until 4/2015 (my warranty/maintenance is up 8/2012). I dickered the BMW dealership down to their admitted break even price ($55K) and they were also going to throw in a set of OEM 18" M3 wheels that I could mount snows on. But, with taxes, it was still nearly a grand higher than what I budgeted myself for a loan amount, so I said no thanks. (I'm fiscally responsible and am not going in the hole for a car, even if it's an M3, and had budgeted the appropriate increased annual amounts for fuel and insurance.) In reply, the dealer said they were not willing to sell the car at a loss right now, but "maybe in a month." As we all know, it's a niche car and it's fall. They've had it since Aug 1st and won't want to be sitting on it all fall and winter.

This would be a daily driver. I don't take many long trips. I've tracked my 335, but I won't be doing any more tracking because I don't have the fuck-you money to be buying new tires all the time.

So, the million dollar question: does it make sense and is it worth taking out a $42K+ loan with a 2.79% interest rate on a two and a half year-old car when I only owe $13K (at .9%) on mine and the F32 335/435i should be out spring of 2013 (which is what I'd get if I waited)? I love the my car, but it's just kind of old. What say you, M3ers?? Is it worth it for a daily driver? The responsible side of me says it's not worth it just for a V8, iDrive/nav, enhanced audio, and a HDD that I could store mp3s on...but it's such a badass car. Thanks and sorry for rambling.

EDIT: My daily commute is 10 miles, half freeway, half city. I wouldn't really be going out looking for twisties on the weekend and, like I said, I wouldn't be tracking it.

Let me just say first that you shouldn't have any concerns that the F32 will
be comparable with the M3.
we know it will follow the F10 architecture and I can assure you while
its beautiful its extremely boring with no connection steer less and no feedback
So no worries there. the 2014 M3 will be tri-turbo and alienated

Current M3 is the king. Beyond that there is no match with your 335i
you will never ever feel that you enter into the same body style.
its just a different car....

Now the idea of getting in debt for 42K+ on a used car
is just a bad one. Paying 55K for a used M3 is also ridiculous.

M3 and used just doesn't add up when you know you can order
a minimum config (59K) minus the discount for invoice =54.7K...
add the essential navi and BT +3K = 57,7...

(I got invoice on mine with relatively easy negotiation)

So the extra $2-3K you will invest you will get back and profit too when you get out. There will never be an NA engine in BMW again and you will get good money when you get out.
You will not get much when you get out from
an already used M3 though. Especially when you finance it..
so harry up and order you have no much time!

Generally speaking, if you can't consider getting in a new and you are financing, don't even think about...it

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by Smokey

I can’t believe you did all that financial computation without a test drive. You need to drive one to see if it suits your needs. The M, unlike the 335i, requires revving the engine to enjoy it—if you love that, then you’ll enjoy the heck out of it. The handling and the glorious sound of the v8 are worth the extra $21, imo. Are you buying a coupe or sedan? I asked because you mentioned insurance premium-- my e90 m3 is actually cheaper to insure than my 335is.

It's a coupe. Unfortunately it's 4 hours away in Indy, so I can't just swing by to test drive it. And no one nearby has one with a DCT (what I want). Of course I'd love revving that V8, but, as some of the guys mentioned above, I probably underestimated fuel costs if I'm going to be doing that on a regular basis and driving the car the way it was meant to be driven. I don't want to be a poser and have to worry about how I drive because of the cost of gas. I probably made the right choice, but I do need to drive one to be sure.

[mdoughty]

since when does a 335 go 0-60 in 3.9 like my dct equipped m3?

Originally Posted by abehwang

The 0-60 is just as quick for both cars and not too much of a difference. Since this will be your daily you won't really be exceeding the speed limit on local/city roads above 55-60mph. However, you might miss the low end torque on your 335i compared to the M3 and you might miss the mpg you get on your 335i.
I drive my M as a daily, I average 16-18mpg city/hwy.
I love cold starts as the M sounds so grunty and mean
the handling is superb when I want to take it out on the back roads

It's all up to you

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm

Now the idea of getting in debt for 42K+ on a used car
is just a bad one. Paying 55K for a used M3 is also ridiculous.

. . . .

Generally speaking, if you can't consider getting in a new and you are financing, don't even think about...it

Yea, you're right. I think I'll be stuck in regular 3er (4er?) land for a while. Not a bad place to be, granted, but it's what I can more easily afford, I suppose.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by 517

It's a coupe. Unfortunately it's 4 hours away in Indy, so I can't just swing by to test drive it. And no one nearby has one with a DCT (what I want). Of course I'd love revving that V8, but, as some of the guys mentioned above, I probably underestimated fuel costs if I'm going to be doing that on a regular basis and driving the car the way it was meant to be driven. I don't want to be a poser and have to worry about how I drive because of the cost of gas. I probably made the right choice, but I do need to drive one to be sure.

Consider yourself hereby warned: If you test drive an M3, you WILL end up buying it. Fiscal responsibility is all well and good, but once you drive that car that extra $21/month won't be nearly enough to stand in the way of your "OMG I've gotta have this car!" instinct. If your brain is telling you that you shouldn't be getting this car and that you'll have another shot in a few years, you'd just be torturing yourself to go test drive it at this point.

[Roth517]

Thanks for all your help, guys.

[M3er]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Consider yourself hereby warned: If you test drive an M3, you WILL end up buying it.

confirmed

and regarding gas
If you drive it like a 328, you will have the same consumption believe it or not.
but this is like telling you
you will be hungry and I will put a cake in front of your face and you are not
supposed to take a bite because you never had a bite of a cake before
because there was simply no cake