[jones99]

I owned a G35 Coupe for 2.5 years. I really liked the car but it was no BMW. Sadly, I had sold a 540i 6 Speed to get the Infiniti. Prior to that I owned a 1999 328i.

The G35 handled like it was on rails - one of the best cornering cars that I have ever driven. However, it just didn't have the road feel of my BMWs. And it is LOUD inside. On the highway, you have to shout at your passengers.

So, after 2.5 years of kicking myself for ever ditching the 540, I decided to get back into a BMW and have an e90 on order (2 weeks out ).

[RedStripe]

Yes,

Acura is Honda's premium line of vehicles
Infiniti is Nissan's premium line of vehicles
Lexus is Toyota's premium line of vehicles

Originally Posted by CorporalCarrot

Could someone just explain for a European what Acura/Infiniti are?

I'm in the states about 4 times a year and notice a lot of those cars. I was in NY last week and noticed an Acura that looked suspiciously like what we in Europe would call a Honda Accord.

Do I deduce correctly therefore that;

Acura = Honda's "Lexus"

Infiniti = Nissan's "Lexus"

??


C

[RedStripe]

It's actually the Acura TSX that is based on the European Accord, while the Acura TL is based on the American Accord.

Originally Posted by ldpantoja

I think that the Honda Accord in Germany is the Acura TL in the states or something like it. I noticed it a while back.

[cosmosblau]

The comparison is fudged.. It's some dodgy salesmanship. When you try to compare the G35 to a 330, there is a link for G35 advantages.

Sure- it lists the G35's differences:
Lower price
Longer powertrain warranty
Larger engine
More horsepower

But it also alludes to the 330 not having several things like:
Xenon headlights
Rear cup holders
Vehicle security system
Rear center armrest

They are hoping to fool the crossover people who can't tell the difference, and people wholove cars festooned withlots of knobs buttons and gadgets. Also, there are those who don't have the self-esteem to own a BMW.

And, that Japanese aesthetic. It's a NISSAN, for crying out loud! They had to invent a new name to be able to sell it- so people don't think of it as what it is- a rear wheel drive Maxima with leather.

Beyond all that, I would never consider the car merely because the interior is so farking ugly.

[romeo26]

hay wannabe in my e30 the bages read 325 but i had a 2.7 in my car!!!
see they did this back then now they are doing this now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ward]

Originally Posted by wannabe

First of all, where are you getting your info from? How do you know the 350Z anniversary is slower than the standard version? Has it been published somewhere? Have you even been to an Infiniti dealership?

read any magazine's review of the car, or look in the road test digest section in the back where they list 0-60 ...... it's been published in at least 3 car mags. Keep up on your reading and you would have known that already.

I have been to 2 different infiniti dealers, and in my opinion those 2 dealers didn't have the same nice atmosphere and courteous people as at the german dealers. Heck, there's a bmw dealer in sacramento that has a hot chick hired just to open the door to let you in/out of the showroom, now that's service!

Originally Posted by wannabe

BMW shares it's parts with it's lower priced models too. BMW just doesn't bring those cars over here to keep the "status" that it has. Look at the 320d and 320i...you're telling me the 330i doesn't share any parts with those lower-priced Euro models? You don't even know about the 1-series do you? Nevermind the fact that you can spend $30K on a 325 and not even get leather...how cheap is that? And you're complaining about the steering wheel! .

the reason it's OK for BMW to share parts is that they're sharing parts with BMW. If I'm going to pay a premium for a luxury badge, I would like to see some diferentiation from a common Nissan. The euro models being cheaper really doesn't matter since they'll never bring over stripped models like that to the states. The one series will still be a BMW so I really don't see a problem with sharing parts.

BMW doesn't make leather standard, I don't agree with that but if it gets me the car $1200 bucks cheaper I'm all for it. I just think it's lame to spend 35 grand on a car that from the drivers seat has the same view as a 15 grand nissan.

Originally Posted by wannabe

The automatic gets a lower horsepower rating because Infiniti wants to reward their manual transmission owners with a little more juice than the automatic drivers. They WANT you to drive the manual transmission. .

I think you're giving them a bit too much credit, it's probably the same reason the RX8 has lower HP with the automatic. The tranny's not rated for the power, and they're too cheap to beef it up for all models in the range (keep in mind it's the same tranny and engine used in the altima, maxima, pathfinder, x-terra, the pickup, the 350Z, the fx35, .......I'm probably forgetting a few)

Originally Posted by wannabe

If you think about it, BMW is almost going to extremes to save weight. Removing the spare tire by having run-flats, hollowing out the camshafts in the engine, using lighter weight alloys for the block

yeah, this is part of why a BMW is worth a premium over other brands, they're leading in technology while others just use the same things over and over. I don't know how you could possibly argue that it's a bad thing that BMW's making the cars lighter (or only slightly heavier while being larger) is a bad thing. the one series is going to be incredible if/when it ever gets over here

Originally Posted by wannabe

The Infiniti motor is the same, they just re-tuned it to get higher horsepower number...sounds familiar right? Yeah, that's right...the only difference between the 325 and 330 is the intake and engine software. BMW does the same thing...but they make it worse by not keeping to their naming convention..

this isn't the first time we've altered the convention
1985-1987 325 2.7 liters
1996???-2000 323 2.5 liters
I'm sure there's others, there's marketing thought that must sometimes be put ahead of convention.

Originally Posted by wannabe

Competition is good. It keeps car makers on their toes. Don't become too brand loyal or else you'll miss all the other great cars being made.

I do, and so should everyone, make a habit of attending manufactures driving events in your area, so you can try all the cars that everyone makes. If anything it'll just make you more BMW loyal as there really isn't anyone else providing a satisfactory manual transmission sports sedan currently

[3Series06]

VERY NICE POST WARD I AGREE BMW DOES GO TO THE EXTREME TO MAKE THERE CUSTOMER VERY SATISFIED AND SERVICE IS GREAT

[Nathan]

check out this thread. I don't see Lexus or Inifiniti in there making a splash.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1042

[wannabe]

ward,

Obviously we will disagree on all of those things. But my point is, who CARES what badge the car wears. We all know Nissan = Infiniti, Honda = Acura, and Toyota = Lexus. Are you buying the car because of the logo on the back? Because of the name? Because everyone should know you spent $40K on the car because of the "luxury" name?

I think it's lame that the Japanese automakers have to re-name their cars to appeal to all the snobs that only buy luxury makes. It's all about the car, not the logo on the hood. Real car people could care less if it's called an Infiniti or a Nissan. In fact, I'd rather the G35 was called the Nissan 3.5GT...that would be waaay cooler.

I think a lot of you automatically go to BMW because of it's status and the fact that they won't bring over those stripped down cars to the U.S. keeps that. In reality, you're driving the same cars taxi drivers are driving in Europe!! I've been to Europe, I've been driven around in a Mercedes by a rude French taxi cab driver. Let's just say it took a lot of the prestige from the Mercedes brand for me.

Also, there is a huge difference between a $14000 Nissan and the G35. Among the notable being rear-wheel drive. They don't even look anywhere similar. It's so stupid how people judge the Japanese luxury makes because of their lower-priced models. They ARE NOT the same car!! The maxima isn't even rear-wheel drive...that fact alone should tell you that it's not even the same chassis platform...hence they aren't the same car. You should know this!

Anyway, believe me I'm a BMW fan. I just hate people that automatically like it because of it's status. Either you are wordly enough to know that BMW is just like any other car maker...or you've only seen what BMW North America wants you to see.

Honestly, I like the people on this forum that know what they are paying for when they get a Bimmer...the engineering, the design, the focus on performance and the driving experience.

I don't respect those that only like BMW because of the name and status. That's the lamest thing on Earth.

Again, if Nissan decided to spend the same amount of engineering, design, and focus on performance as BMW...who cares that it's really JUST a Nissan?

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by ward

I think you're giving them a bit too much credit, it's probably the same reason the RX8 has lower HP with the automatic. The tranny's not rated for the power, and they're too cheap to beef it up for all models in the range (keep in mind it's the same tranny and engine used in the altima, maxima, pathfinder, x-terra, the pickup, the 350Z, the fx35, .......I'm probably forgetting a few)

Another thing, ward, Infiniti has the Q45 and M45 that have horsepower numbers that rate 340 hp on an automatic transmission. Obviously they have automatic transmission that can handle the power, but they don't use it on the G35. Believe me, they want to give people an incentive to choose the manual.

They could easily make an automatic transmission that can handle the power...just like they can make a manual transmission that can handle it. Believe me that they want the RX-8 and G35 to be "driver's" cars...hence they want the manual transmission owners to have a little edge.

Besides if they were being "cheap", why not downgrade the manual transmission cars to have the same horsepower as the automatics? It would obviously save them money...but they don't do this, do they?

It's all about marketing...not the fact that they can't make an auto that is strong enough.

[romeo26]

wow this thread is heating up!!!
when i buy /look at a car i dont look at the name, i look at how it drives, handles, accelerates, how i feel about it, and if it looks nice. but i allways look at bmw first b/c i trust there products (my e30 got rear ended by a nissan and not even a scratch on it, but the nissan trucks driver side front and fender was fuked up). they to me are alot safer.
if honda made the v6 accord rwd i'd look at that. only thing i dont look at is fwd, ill have to change my driving style (like to slide around alot).

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by ward

I have been to 2 different infiniti dealers, and in my opinion those 2 dealers didn't have the same nice atmosphere and courteous people as at the german dealers. Heck, there's a bmw dealer in sacramento that has a hot chick hired just to open the door to let you in/out of the showroom, now that's service!

Do you know how many times I've read on this forum how a lot of BMW dealers don't know ANYTHING about the cars they are selling. You call this good service?

Look at the dealer ratings forum and come back and tell me that BMW dealers are perfect.

If you call a "hot" chick opening doors, service...good for you. I'd rather have delears that know WTF they are talking about.

Check out the dealer ratings forum. Eye-openers.

[ward]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Another thing, ward, Infiniti has the Q45 and M45 that have horsepower numbers that rate 340 hp on an automatic transmission. Obviously they have automatic transmission that can handle the power, but they don't use it on the G35. Believe me, they want to give people an incentive to choose the manual.

They could easily make an automatic transmission that can handle the power...just like they can make a manual transmission that can handle it. Believe me that they want the RX-8 and G35 to be "driver's" cars...hence they want the manual transmission owners to have a little edge.

Besides if they were being "cheap", why not downgrade the manual transmission cars to have the same horsepower as the automatics? It would obviously save them money...but they don't do this, do they?

It's all about marketing...not the fact that they can't make an auto that is strong enough.

those models have a V-8 and i'm sure the transmission wouldn't fit/doesn't bolt up to the v6 or they'd do that.

sell the honda, spend a few years in a BMW and if you're an enthusiast you won't be able to look at anything else outside of maybe a porsche, much less buy a infiniti, lexus, acura.....

before I was converted I thought the same thing, that the japanese could compete.

[ward]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Do you know how many times I've read on this forum how a lot of BMW dealers don't know ANYTHING about the cars they are selling. You call this good service?

Look at the dealer ratings forum and come back and tell me that BMW dealers are perfect.

If you call a "hot" chick opening doors, service...good for you. I'd rather have delears that know WTF they are talking about.

Check out the dealer ratings forum. Eye-openers.

I'd rather have a nice showroom and nice low pressure people than "well informed" sales force. The information is out there, and anyone who cares can easily find everything they need to know on the internet. Sales people are there to sell you things, so I wouldn't be all that trusting of what they're telling you anyways.

Of course there are good and bad dealers, but I haven't been to a good infiniti dealer yet, just ones with herds of sales people smoking waiting to jump out and ask what can I do to earn your business today.

If I'm going to pay a premium for a car, i want to get premium service and treatment from the dealer, I think lexus does a great job of this, infiniti does not

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by ward

sell the honda, spend a few years in a BMW and if you're an enthusiast you won't be able to look at anything else outside of maybe a porsche, much less buy a infiniti, lexus, acura.....

before I was converted I thought the same thing, that the japanese could compete.

I don't know about you, but I don't plan on just owning one car. Don't know if this will happen, but I'm not going to be just a BMW guy.

I'd give my left nut for an e46 M3...but the dealer won't go for it. Besides, I know that once I get it...I'm probably going to have the BMW logo tattooed on my left butt cheek and the M symbol on the right butt cheek.

As far as not ever buying a lexus, infiniti, or acura...I would love...love...love to own an NSX. Then there's the 2007 Infiniti GTR supercoupe. I still think the current Lexus IS300 is one of the best looking sedans ever made...I would want to have one in my future "collection." A Honda S2000 is vital...in my opinion...to any car collection.

This is the kind of argument that I like...that I really have to experience a BMW to know there is no competition. But I don't like all the petty arguments about how Inifiniti is really just a Nissan or that the automatics don't get as much power as the manual.

Don't forget...that there are a lot of old BMW fans that have been soured on the current designs and will never come back...they are most certainly buying something else.

[pharding]

Infiniti G35 is a fine car, but it is not equal to BMW. I would rather have a 325 BMW than a G35 with 290 horsepower. Jap cars are getting better but they are not equal to BMW yet. Furthermore the Japanese are not innovators they just copy German design and engineering.

[pharding]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Don't forget...that there are a lot of old BMW fans that have been soured on the current designs and will never come back...they are most certainly buying something else.

"Some" BMW fans have gone elsewhere which is not a big deal. They have been replaced by more new BMW enthusiasts, like my son and my business partner. BMW sales are fine. BMW growth is superb. Trolls on Roadfly like to trash talk BMW because the moderators like the old design and encourage negativity toward BMW. All things considered BMW has assumed a leadership position in the automobile industry by producing leading edge engineering and design.

[romeo26]

wannabe youll like the handling bout the Bmw's and probally driving abilities. i too will like to own an NSX and a s2k even though they arnt BMW's.
pharding
the Japanese came with some stuff on there own.just cant name a few at the top of my head. look at the s2k engine its very good.

[pharding]

Originally Posted by romeo26

pharding
the Japanese came with some stuff on there own.just cant name a few at the top of my head. look at the s2k engine its very good.

They may have come up with some things on their own, but nothing significant comes to mind. In general they copy and refine as opposed to innovate. They are very good at ripping off high end German engineering and design.

[ward]

Originally Posted by wannabe

I'd give my left nut for an e46 M3...but the dealer won't go for it. Besides, I know that once I get it...I'm probably going to have the BMW logo tattooed on my left butt cheek and the M symbol on the right butt cheek.

That's what happened to me with an E36 M3, once they (BMW) get you hooked you'll be in trouble. I always avoided driving an E46 M since I knew I'd probably have to get one.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by pharding

They may have come up with some things on their own, but nothing significant comes to mind. In general they copy and refine as opposed to innovate. They are very good at ripping off high end German engineering and design.

How about the first implementation of variable valve timing that BMW (and every other car manufacturer) eventually copied...V-TEC.

How about the first production hybrids...from Toyota and Honda?

I think the first voice-command Nav system came on the Honda Accord.

I think the first implemetation of a Logic 7 stereo system is on the Acura TL.

I can't tell if a lot of you're guys' bias is racial or not...but simply dismissing the "Japs" because you don't think they come up with anything is ridiculous.

Why do you think Honda and Toyota are major players in the F1 league? Because they copy from others? I don't think so.

[wannabe]

Check out this article:

http://www.drivers.com/article/863/

Notable quote:
"Japanese automakers have been aggressively rolling out a new generation of vehicle safety systems, while North American and European OEMs have been playing catch-up," claimed Frank Viquez, ABI Research's director of automotive research.

Another notable quote:
Honda has even raised the bar by incorporating pedestrian-recognition software designed to warn the driver both visually and audibly of a pedestrian in the roadway.