Who has actually replaced their rod bearings??

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by GVIFlyer

Three E9X M3's owned - two E93's and my current E92 DCT ZCP - zero rod bearings replaced.

Ever wonder why it's only the indy shops replacing rod bearings? My large Penske owned BMW dealership has never replaced a S65 rod bearing; RB's on E46 M3 S54 motors under the recall campaign - yes, S65's - no.

I call BS on your statement that the Penske store has never store has never replaced bearings on an S65. Do your work at the dealership?

It mostly independent shops because most people are smart enough not take their BMWs back to a BMW dealership after the warranty has expired.

It seems that by the time there might be any issue the vehicle is out of warranty. So I guess there is a chance they have not done one. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

5 years ago the labor rate the BMW dealership in san Jose was $220 per hour. I bet it's probably close to $300 by now. Why the hell would I take me car there for anything.

How long has your friend been the service manager at the dealership. I've been a District Manager in the car business for 20 years. Most service managers are lucky to last 3 years.

[GVIFlyer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

I call BS on your statement that the Penske store has never store has never replaced bearings on an S65. Do your work at the dealership?

Rhetorical questions aside, you did not the address the element of my post questioning why BMW doesn't issue a recall for the rod bearings on the E9X if there really is an issue, as they readily did for the rod bearings on the S54 motor in the E46 M3.

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

It seems that by the time there might be any issue the vehicle is out of warranty. So I guess there is a chance they have not done one. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

If you are actually in the car business, you know that manufacturers frequently issue warranties for defective components that far exceed the original warranty period, as on the N54/N55 high pressure fuel pumps.

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

It mostly independent shops because most people are smart enough not take their BMWs back to a BMW dealership after the warranty has expired.

5 years ago the labor rate the BMW dealership in san Jose was $220 per hour. I bet it's probably close to $300 by now. Why the hell would I take me car there for anything.

We have three BMW products, one of which is out of warranty, all are maintained at the BMW service center. We do so in order to insure that the work is performed by BMW trained technicians, OEM parts are used, to enhance resale value and to qualify for "good will" repairs.

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

How long has your friend been the service manager at the dealership. I've been a District Manager in the car business for 20 years. Most service managers are lucky to last 3 years.

My friend has been associated with this dealership for 16 years.

[Solo_M_Tech]

I've done enough S65/85 rod bearing services to definitively say that it's a matter of when, and not if the bearings will fail. I'm yet to pull a set of bearings and say " yeah these bearings were totally fine". As to the cause, there is still no definitive answer, but BE and VAC have done some testing and have an educated solution/bandaid to the problem.

I changed my bearings at 89k miles with VAC bearings and OE bolts ( car is an 02/08 build) and every single bearing was worn into the copper. I am the second owner. Fist owner had all of the proper services done, on time, by BMW of Sarasota. I have all of paperwork, reciepts etc. I have since owned it, and done the repairs and services myself ( BMW Fasttrack graduate, working at an indy BMW performance garage) I can tell you for fact, that most of the techs working in the dealerships are average techs at best. At least BMW does a good job in their curriculum, training is top notch, but some of the graduates shouldn't be changing oil in a golf cart. Just saying.

[STooK]

I have not done mine yet at 44k miles because I'm still under CPO warranty. Once that expires next year, I'm getting mine done right after. It might be internet hysteria, but I'm not rolling the dice. Curious to see how mine will look like.

[Inluvwithastr1pper]

Originally Posted by GVIFlyer

I like a good conspiracy story. If the S65 motor has defective rod bearings, as the S54 actually did, why doesn't BMW issue a recall as they did on the S54?

Source for the litigation you mentioned? I'd like to look at the elements of the filing.

Search "Class Action Lawsuit" and you'll find your answer. Also you are ignorant to believe that BMW will willingly do a recall.

Originally Posted by GVIFlyer

Rhetorical questions aside, you did not the address the element of my post questioning why BMW doesn't issue a recall for the rod bearings on the E9X if there really is an issue, as they readily did for the rod bearings on the S54 motor in the E46 M3.

We have three BMW products, one of which is out of warranty, all are maintained at the BMW service center. We do so in order to insure that the work is performed by BMW trained technicians, OEM parts are used, to enhance resale value and to qualify for "good will" repairs..

SMH if you think the BMW dealership is the best place to service your vehicle. They screw you and wait for the next sucker to come by vs a good reputable Indy shop makes money through loyal and repeat customers.

My M3 was returned with a dent after my airbag recall service. My gym is right next to another dealership where I see techs all the time rev the shit out of cars they are "road testing".

Have who you want take care of your BMWs but don't us the BMW dealership is the best place for service or that BMW has our best interest in mind.

[Tuningmann]

I have recently replaced mine rod bearings myself in my garage at 8.000 km with Arp bolts and ACL HX bearings.

I was curius to see how they look like, and they didnt look nice. They all where a bit worn in places. I had no knock or miss soundings at all before the bearing swap. It all was a pre maintenace task and I must say I was affected by "The Internet Hysteria".

I can say they all wear one more than another and should be done before you reach 100.000 km.

I have now done about 1.000 km of mild driving and are about to change the oil and filter and then are set to go for the summer!

Tuningmann

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Tuningmann

I have recently replaced mine rod bearings myself in my garage at 8.000 km with Arp bolts and ACL HX bearings.

I was curius to see how they look like, and they didnt look nice. They all where a bit worn in places. I had no knock or miss soundings at all before the bearing swap. It all was a pre maintenace task and I must say I was affected by "The Internet Hysteria".

I can say they all wear one more than another and should be done before you reach 100.000 km.

I have now done about 1.000 km of mild driving and are about to change the oil and filter and then are set to go for the summer!

Tuningmann

Hej Tuning!

Said 8k km guess you mean 80k? So you do a "brake in" period of the shells, something ACL recommended or based on own judgement?

Tack

[pbonsalb]

While I changed my rod bearings in 2014 when the CPO warranty expired and the uppers showed copper along the parting lines and a little down the edges and some had excessive wear patches in the middle, I do agree that it is worth noting that probably 90% of these cars are still on original rod bearings 5-10 years later. I though the failure rate would be increasing dramatically.

It is just my guess that maybe 1% of motors have failed and 10% have had bearings replaced but I think it is in the ballpark.

It is harder to blame BMW when your 10 year old motor fails than when your 3 year old motor fails. I think BMW was hoping the problem would age away. Engine recalls are expensive especially to do bearings on 60,000 M3s plus a smaller number of E60 M5 and M6.

[tailgate1234]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hej Tuning!

Said 8k km guess you mean 80k? So you do a "brake in" period of the shells, something ACL recommended or based on own judgement?

Tack

The person who replaced my bearings recommended an oil change after a500 mile, keep under 5500 RPM, break-in period.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by tailgate1234

The person who replaced my bearings recommended an oil change after a500 mile, keep under 5500 RPM, break-in period.

Cheers Tailgate. Seen different input here, as the shells not are suppose to touch crank brake in "shouldn't" be needed I guess but easy start and soon oilchange sounds good anyhow to flush out any dirt.

[Tuningmann]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hej Tuning!

Said 8k km guess you mean 80k? So you do a "brake in" period of the shells, something ACL recommended or based on own judgement?

Tack

Yes, of course i mean 80K.

My "run in" session is not recomended by anyone but me. It`s something that feels right to do when you done this type of operation and I don`t think it harms anything by doing this.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Tuningmann

Yes, of course i mean 80K.

My "run in" session is not recomended by anyone but me. It`s something that feels right to do when you done this type of operation and I don`t think it harms anything by doing this.

Thanks Tuning, yep agree certainly can't harm was just curious about possible supplier recommendation.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by GVIFlyer

Rhetorical questions aside, you did not the address the element of my post questioning why BMW doesn't issue a recall for the rod bearings on the E9X if there really is an issue, as they readily did for the rod bearings on the S54 motor in the E46 M3.

Bmw never accepted fault for the S54 rod bearing issue. They blamed the bearing manufacturer, and then redesigned the bearings. There are multiple possible reasons why they may not issue a recall for service bulletin for S65 rod bearings under the same reasoning.

Can you get away with blaming a bearing manufacturer twice in a row?

The exemption for lead automotive bearings in European Directive 2000/53/EC (which requires lead-free automotive bearings) appears to have expired July 2008, and this requirement was probably anticipated for several years. So the aluminum/tin bearing design was likely completed before or early into production of the E9X M3's with lead/copper bearing equipped engines.

Presupposing you've already designed a new bearing without significantly increased clearance and sourced another manufacturer to produce it, can you use the same trick to avoid liability of blaming the bearing manufacturer? Then, what would you do with the new aluminium/tin bearings which will be produced by a different manufacturer? Redesign them too? But why, if it was a manufacturer fault? Are you anticipating a different manufacturer to have the same fault?

There are plenty of reasons why they would not fix a bearing issue, all related to money kept in their pockets rather than ours. The bottom line is that they will do whatever they can get away with. Just look at history, even short term. BMW was not a part of diesel-gate, but if you think BMW has some higher standard then you are naive and should look further back in history.

[fivaxis]

I’m at 125k on stock bearings. I’ve been using mobil 0w40 since it had 57k on it.

[Honda]

Originally Posted by fivaxis

I’m at 125k on stock bearings. I’ve been using mobil 0w40 since it had 57k on it.

Holly! Do you know the oil consumption with your engine using 0w40? I heard it can get bad

[timothy2001]

Originally Posted by fivaxis

I’m at 125k on stock bearings. I’ve been using mobil 0w40 since it had 57k on it.

Tic, tic, tic, tic BOOM!

Just having some fun, we all know the calculated risk and make decisions based on our appitite or tolerance for it.

I am at 43,000 miles and will be doing mine in the next year or so. I am all about peace of mind.

[M3LISSA]

Originally Posted by ZombieM3

I have a 2011 with about 50k miles and have contemplated replacing them since I purchased it. Currently, I drive the car about 2k miles a year and rolling the dice.

Almost every thread I’ve read where someone is asking for advice on a prospective m3 purchase someone always says “get the rod bearings replaced and enjoy”.

Who here has actually replaced their rod bearings? My guess is the actual percentage is low.

I did mine at 79k and they weren't bad. I don't track my car, it's a daily driver, and warmed up in the winters decently. I'm not saying that matters, but I'm sure it helped.

[m3jala]

Originally Posted by msan

Just thinking out loud...assuming $2,500 for a bearing job and $20,000 for a new engine. Break even would assume the odds of the engine blowing is 1 in 8....which seems pretty darn high.

Seems like an insurance would make money if people paid $2500 to gaurantee their engine for 5 years or 60k miles. 1,000 owners pay $2500, that's $2.5 million. You'd break even, even if 125 motors blow up of the 1,000...if only 50 blow up you make $1.5 million....

I have had the same opinion and wonder why no one is doing it. Perhaps it best be organized by a forum member here...

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by m3jala

I have had the same opinion and wonder why no one is doing it. Perhaps it best be organized by a forum member here...

I would organize and support that. However, if you look at it like a "group buy" it wouldn't be valid until all 1000 owners have paid the premium. Which would kill the whole deal because you won't get a thousand owners to commit to it.

[Dr. Dre]

[QUOTE=GVIFlyer;23181488]Rhetorical questions aside, you did not the address the element of my post questioning why BMW doesn't issue a recall for the rod bearings on the E9X if there really is an issue, as they readily did for the rod bearings on the S54 motor in the E46 M3.

First, vehicle manufacturer's don't make the decision to issue recalls. This is done by the federal government (NTHSA). Recalls are only done for safety or emissions.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

I would organize and support that. However, if you look at it like a "group buy" it wouldn't be valid until all 1000 owners have paid the premium. Which would kill the whole deal because you won't get a thousand owners to commit to it.

Maybe that is what BMW will end up doing as a settlement in the class action lawsuit and maybe it will be applied to all owners. Extend the engine warranty to 10 years or 100k miles for rod bearing related failures. Much cheaper than putting new bearings in 60,000 motors — that would be 60,000 days of labor plus $500 in parts each. Instead, just pay for or rebuild maybe 1,000 motors. After 10 years, you would be out of luck.

[byroncheung]

Originally Posted by msan

Just thinking out loud...assuming $2,500 for a bearing job and $20,000 for a new engine. Break even would assume the odds of the engine blowing is 1 in 8....which seems pretty darn high.

Seems like an insurance would make money if people paid $2500 to gaurantee their engine for 5 years or 60k miles. 1,000 owners pay $2500, that's $2.5 million. You'd break even, even if 125 motors blow up of the 1,000...if only 50 blow up you make $1.5 million....

Exactly the kind of thinking that leads me to still rolling the dice... cost of the job is high relatively to the probability. I love the car, and obviously if the bad luck hit it's gonna suck, but it's not the end of world for me so I can take that risk.

Got my car as CPO at 27k, currently the car is at 45k, mostly daily it, track / autocross a handful of times. 5k oil interval since I got the car, drive it all year including north east winter... Maybe as mileage accumulates further, or if we see an increase trend of blowup, I'll change my mind who knows... But for now I'm going to keep living my life one roll of the dice at a time.