Logic 7 - any good?

vivid · 05-15-2005, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStripe

I'm going to start calling my test drives "auditions" now.

thats a good one, and kind of true but... after going to the BMW perfromance driving day I can say have the windows down it sounds nice, then listen to the steeo when parked

and as Armen52 said take your own CDs of varying styles but that you know very well and listen...

bimmer06 · 05-15-2005, 09:08 AM

From what I have read the DSP modes consist of Music, Concert Hall, & Theater. Are there any others and what mode sounds the best with regular or Sat radio?

Kyle · 05-15-2005, 03:51 PM

Logic7 was developed several years before ProLogic II. It was introduced in the mid 1990's by Lexicon in their then new $5000 home thater processor, DC-1. It has been improved several times over the years and is still used today in their processors and reciever as well as select harmon/kardon recievers (in a limited capacity) and AKG headphones.

While its true that a discrete 5 or 7 channel system from media through playback will yeild superior channel seperation, Logic7 has the ability to come very close to this level with conventional 2 channel sources such as CD and radio. Since these sources are the most common and readily available formats for listening in a car, Logic7 will provide superior results much more often. In other words, a more natural presentaion of the original performance rather than the "sound everwhere" approach taken by other surround formats.

Logic7 for the car was developed in early 1999 through a joint venture by BMW and Harmon International engineers. Dr. David Griesinger of Lexicon (the man who invented Logic7) was the chief conslutant to the team. His early prototype of Logic7 in a car was a DC-1 run through a 12v inverter in his Saab 900.

To find out more than you ever wanted to know about Logic7 and surround processing in general, check out Dr. Griesinger's website... www.world.std.com/%7Egriesngr/ . Also see Lexicon's site www.lexicon.com .

Kyle
98 740iL
97 M3

ziv · 06-14-2005, 02:10 PM

Guys, OK, so I'm surprised no one has asked this yet, so I'll open this thread up for another discussion.

If you notice, the Logic 7 comes with 2 modes, Cinema and Music (I think that's what they're called, it's been over a month since I dropped off my car in Germany). If you play with those 2 modes, you'll realize that Music sounds great, and Cinema sounds awful because all the music is coming from the center speaker. This sort of makes sense since you're feeding the sound via a CD or radio signal, which is a 2-channel input (stereo). So... I contacted Lexicon directly, and asked them what does the Cinema mode mean, if you can never get it to sound well. Their response was that it's made for Dolby 5.1 decoding. I asked them how are you suppose to get Dolby 5.1 decoded sound sources into the stereo, and they said I should ask my dealer. The dealers are clueless about this.

So...

I have an idea -- I THINK that someone should try to rip the .ac3 sound portion of their DVD (take a soundtrack or a concert), and save it onto a CD, either as AIFF or MP3. The player should be able to read MP3's, but I don't think that you can encode the .ac3 sound info from the mpeg4 DVD. I THINK you should be able to rip the ac3 track as is, and then just burn it to a CD-R. Then, take the CD-R, insert back into your computer, and verify that Windows Media Player or Quicktime are able to play the sound back. Once you get it working, and verified on a PC, take that CD-R to your E90, and see if the Logic 7 will decode the Dolby info off the ac3 track. If it does, you're done. You now have surround sound in your car.

This is my theory. It's one of the first things I'll try when I finally get my car back, but it will be 2 more weeks. Someone on the board should be technical enough to start cranking on this little project, to try to get the Logic 7 to play Dolby 5.1 encoded information...

There are plenty of rippers for PC's and macs on the net that either leave the ac3 track intact, OR convert it to 2-channel .mp3 or .aiff

I'm willing to bet that this is an undocumented feature but that once we figure it out, we'll make tons of E90 owners really happy. I know I'll be psyched if I could rip concerts, and hear them in the car in full surround.

ciao ---

Ziv.

Kyle · 06-14-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkA

Isn't Logic 7 just Harmon Kardon's competing decoder standard against Dolby Labs PrologicII ?

Does anyone other than Harmon Kardon have the rights to manufacture a system consisting of Logic 7? And thus if it's proprietary to HK, isn't it all just the same as the previous Harmon Kardon upgrades on older BMWs ?

Logic7 was designed and patened by Lexicon, not Harmon Kardon. HK licenses L7 from them. See http://www.lexicon.com/logic7/index.asp for info on L7.

Kyle.

CC 330i · 06-14-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziv

Guys, OK, so I'm surprised no one has asked this yet, so I'll open this thread up for another discussion.

If you notice, the Logic 7 comes with 2 modes, Cinema and Music (I think that's what they're called, it's been over a month since I dropped off my car in Germany). If you play with those 2 modes, you'll realize that Music sounds great, and Cinema sounds awful because all the music is coming from the center speaker. This sort of makes sense since you're feeding the sound via a CD or radio signal, which is a 2-channel input (stereo). So... I contacted Lexicon directly, and asked them what does the Cinema mode mean, if you can never get it to sound well. Their response was that it's made for Dolby 5.1 decoding. I asked them how are you suppose to get Dolby 5.1 decoded sound sources into the stereo, and they said I should ask my dealer. The dealers are clueless about this.

So...

I have an idea -- I THINK that someone should try to rip the .ac3 sound portion of their DVD (take a soundtrack or a concert), and save it onto a CD, either as AIFF or MP3. The player should be able to read MP3's, but I don't think that you can encode the .ac3 sound info from the mpeg4 DVD. I THINK you should be able to rip the ac3 track as is, and then just burn it to a CD-R. Then, take the CD-R, insert back into your computer, and verify that Windows Media Player or Quicktime are able to play the sound back. Once you get it working, and verified on a PC, take that CD-R to your E90, and see if the Logic 7 will decode the Dolby info off the ac3 track. If it does, you're done.
Ziv.

Ziv, I thought it was for those with NAV that want to view DVD movies on their nav screen... What do you think?

ziv · 06-15-2005, 02:02 AM

You guys are both right. I'm just trying to find a neat trick for the system...

E90 Enthusiast · 06-17-2005, 03:08 PM

Anyone have the Logic 7 without idrive/Nav? Do you have control over multiple equalizer functions as in the nav equipped model? Just wondering since the radio head unit display is so tiny (non idrives), I thought it might comromise some of the functionality of the Logic 7....

andrewlin · 06-17-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90 Enthusiast

Anyone have the Logic 7 without idrive/Nav? Do you have control over multiple equalizer functions as in the nav equipped model? Just wondering since the radio head unit display is so tiny (non idrives), I thought it might comromise some of the functionality of the Logic 7....

Yep. I have a Logic 7 w/out iDrive and you do indeed have control over the equalizer.

CC 330i · 06-17-2005, 03:50 PM

I have not seen the option to enable/disable RDS so I assume I don't have RDS. Can anyone help me with the menus to get to RDS on a non-nav Logic 7 on a 330i? (Or maybe I don't have it...).

Thank you!

RedStripe · 06-17-2005, 06:06 PM

My experience has been that RDS is an automatic thing. So, just because you don't see song titles, station names, and what not, does not mean your RDS is not working. You have to verify that the station you are tuning into provides RDS feeds/transmissions.

If you had RDS before in another car, and knew of stations in your area that transmitted the extra RDS data, and you are not now getting it on your e90, please post if that is the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC 330i

I have not seen the option to enable/disable RDS so I assume I don't have RDS. Can anyone help me with the menus to get to RDS on a non-nav Logic 7 on a 330i? (Or maybe I don't have it...).

Thank you!

Ausbob · 06-17-2005, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quackman

I read it once before somewhere.... but I cannot remember the exact number. IT is somewhere in the upper 300 watt range. I remember that because the Range Rover(biggest of the three) has the highest wattage L7 system with 500+ watts. Then the 7 has 420 watts. So the 3 is between 300 and 400, if I am remembering correctly.

My dealer gave me the Logic 7 write up for E90 and it states 420 watts for the system in the three series in line with the 5 and the 7.

RedStripe · 06-17-2005, 06:11 PM

Also, though it doesn't pertain to Logic-7, those cars WITHOUT Logic-7 in the US (10 speaker Professional Radio setup) have 330 watts, from what I remember. Can anyone confirm or deny? Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ausbob

My dealer gave me the E90 write up on Logic 7 and it sates 420 watts for the system in the three series in line with the 5 and the 7.

Ausbob · 06-17-2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivid

I went to do my test drive and damn it both the E90s only had the professional systems so no test listen

But if Lexicon is making the logic7 is should be Fing good because, as previously said, they make audiophile level home equipment... I think we should be asking how it compares to the Mark Levinson systems in Lexus which IMO are hands down the best car stereos out there. As long as we don’t compare it to the crap bose systems that so many seem to love for some unknown reason.

In actual fact both the Mark Levinson in the Lexus and the HK (Logic 7) in the BMW come from the same organisation. This is the Harman International Group, which owns Lexicon, Mark Levinson and Harmon/Kardon brand names. I have heard both the ML in the Lexus and the Logic 7 and they seem very comparable, being both are effectively from the same owner. Everyone will hear sound differently so my theory is, if you like what you hear and have the cash to get it, do it. :rocks:

Ausbob · 06-17-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStripe

Also, though it doesn't pertain to Logic-7, those cars WITHOUT Logic-7 in the US (10 speaker Professional Radio setup) have 330 watts, from what I remember. Can anyone confirm or deny? Thanks.

Red Stripe:

The figure you quote of 330 watts for the HiFi is what I have read also. I was fortunate enough to get to read some early release information from my dealer and that is the figure it quoted.

E90 Enthusiast · 06-17-2005, 09:58 PM

Still, 330 watts of peak power is not bad for a spec factory unit. What about equalizer settings on the standard spec system - are there multiple bands, or just a treble and bass?

I may rethink my choice of the Logic 7 after hearing some of the comments on the standard system...

visor · 06-18-2005, 03:08 AM

More detailed info re speaker sizes, power per channel, etc, here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=logic

ziv · 07-13-2005, 06:21 PM

has anyone tried to see if the Logic 7 system can read DVD+/-R/RW?

quackman · 07-15-2005, 03:07 PM

My dad had a 745i once, and I remember tooling around with the Logic 7 settings. Now I've got the logic 7 in my 3 series... but I noticed one difference.
The L7 in the 745i had the option of increase/decrease the sound processing on a scale of 1-10.
The L7 in the 3 series has no such option, only an equalizer and the treble/bass.
Did they remove this feature or am I missing something?

tim916 · 07-18-2005, 03:46 PM

I just picked up my 325 w/Logic 7 on Saturday and I'm really impressed with it. It seems to be very well balanced and the bass is surprisingly accurate and tight for a car system. I have not heard the standard HK system so I can't comment on the differences.

Never-Enough · 03-13-2011, 02:58 PM

I know this thread is old, but I wanted to verify that the Logic 7 system was standard & NOT AN OPTION on the 2007-08 335i/xi cars. Am I correct?

Denny347 · 03-13-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Never-Enough

I know this thread is old, but I wanted to verify that the Logic 7 system was standard & NOT AN OPTION on the 2007-08 335i/xi cars. Am I correct?

I thought they were an option.

05-15-2005, 09:08 AM	#46
bimmer06 New Member 0 Rep 15 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2005 iTrader: (0)	From what I have read the DSP modes consist of Music, Concert Hall, & Theater. Are there any others and what mode sounds the best with regular or Sat radio?
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05-15-2005, 03:51 PM	#47
Kyle New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: 98 740iL 97 M3 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida iTrader: (0)	Logic7 was developed several years before ProLogic II. It was introduced in the mid 1990's by Lexicon in their then new $5000 home thater processor, DC-1. It has been improved several times over the years and is still used today in their processors and reciever as well as select harmon/kardon recievers (in a limited capacity) and AKG headphones. While its true that a discrete 5 or 7 channel system from media through playback will yeild superior channel seperation, Logic7 has the ability to come very close to this level with conventional 2 channel sources such as CD and radio. Since these sources are the most common and readily available formats for listening in a car, Logic7 will provide superior results much more often. In other words, a more natural presentaion of the original performance rather than the "sound everwhere" approach taken by other surround formats. Logic7 for the car was developed in early 1999 through a joint venture by BMW and Harmon International engineers. Dr. David Griesinger of Lexicon (the man who invented Logic7) was the chief conslutant to the team. His early prototype of Logic7 in a car was a DC-1 run through a 12v inverter in his Saab 900. To find out more than you ever wanted to know about Logic7 and surround processing in general, check out Dr. Griesinger's website... www.world.std.com/%7Egriesngr/ . Also see Lexicon's site www.lexicon.com . Kyle 98 740iL 97 M3
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06-14-2005, 02:10 PM	#48
ziv Private 5 Rep 84 Posts Drives: 330i, SG, Sport Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Guys, OK, so I'm surprised no one has asked this yet, so I'll open this thread up for another discussion. If you notice, the Logic 7 comes with 2 modes, Cinema and Music (I think that's what they're called, it's been over a month since I dropped off my car in Germany). If you play with those 2 modes, you'll realize that Music sounds great, and Cinema sounds awful because all the music is coming from the center speaker. This sort of makes sense since you're feeding the sound via a CD or radio signal, which is a 2-channel input (stereo). So... I contacted Lexicon directly, and asked them what does the Cinema mode mean, if you can never get it to sound well. Their response was that it's made for Dolby 5.1 decoding. I asked them how are you suppose to get Dolby 5.1 decoded sound sources into the stereo, and they said I should ask my dealer. The dealers are clueless about this. So... I have an idea -- I THINK that someone should try to rip the .ac3 sound portion of their DVD (take a soundtrack or a concert), and save it onto a CD, either as AIFF or MP3. The player should be able to read MP3's, but I don't think that you can encode the .ac3 sound info from the mpeg4 DVD. I THINK you should be able to rip the ac3 track as is, and then just burn it to a CD-R. Then, take the CD-R, insert back into your computer, and verify that Windows Media Player or Quicktime are able to play the sound back. Once you get it working, and verified on a PC, take that CD-R to your E90, and see if the Logic 7 will decode the Dolby info off the ac3 track. If it does, you're done. You now have surround sound in your car. This is my theory. It's one of the first things I'll try when I finally get my car back, but it will be 2 more weeks. Someone on the board should be technical enough to start cranking on this little project, to try to get the Logic 7 to play Dolby 5.1 encoded information... There are plenty of rippers for PC's and macs on the net that either leave the ac3 track intact, OR convert it to 2-channel .mp3 or .aiff I'm willing to bet that this is an undocumented feature but that once we figure it out, we'll make tons of E90 owners really happy. I know I'll be psyched if I could rip concerts, and hear them in the car in full surround. ciao --- Ziv.
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06-15-2005, 02:02 AM	#51
ziv Private 5 Rep 84 Posts Drives: 330i, SG, Sport Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	You guys are both right. I'm just trying to find a neat trick for the system...
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06-17-2005, 03:08 PM	#52
E90 Enthusiast Second Lieutenant 2 Rep 225 Posts Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Missouri iTrader: (0)	Anyone have the Logic 7 without idrive/Nav? Do you have control over multiple equalizer functions as in the nav equipped model? Just wondering since the radio head unit display is so tiny (non idrives), I thought it might comromise some of the functionality of the Logic 7....
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06-17-2005, 03:50 PM	#54
CC 330i Captain 44 Rep 722 Posts Drives: 330i SG/Blk/Alum Join Date: May 2005 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (0)	I have not seen the option to enable/disable RDS so I assume I don't have RDS. Can anyone help me with the menus to get to RDS on a non-nav Logic 7 on a 330i? (Or maybe I don't have it...). Thank you!
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06-17-2005, 09:58 PM	#60
E90 Enthusiast Second Lieutenant 2 Rep 225 Posts Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Missouri iTrader: (0)	Still, 330 watts of peak power is not bad for a spec factory unit. What about equalizer settings on the standard spec system - are there multiple bands, or just a treble and bass? I may rethink my choice of the Logic 7 after hearing some of the comments on the standard system...
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06-18-2005, 03:08 AM	#61
visor BMW, can I have some LSD please? 88 Rep 1,591 Posts Drives: 2017 F30 340i xDrive Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	More detailed info re speaker sizes, power per channel, etc, here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=logic
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07-13-2005, 06:21 PM	#62
ziv Private 5 Rep 84 Posts Drives: 330i, SG, Sport Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	has anyone tried to see if the Logic 7 system can read DVD+/-R/RW?
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07-15-2005, 03:07 PM	#63
quackman Lieutenant 29 Rep 436 Posts Drives: '08 M3 6mt Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hempstead, NY iTrader: (0)	My dad had a 745i once, and I remember tooling around with the Logic 7 settings. Now I've got the logic 7 in my 3 series... but I noticed one difference. The L7 in the 745i had the option of increase/decrease the sound processing on a scale of 1-10. The L7 in the 3 series has no such option, only an equalizer and the treble/bass. Did they remove this feature or am I missing something?
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07-18-2005, 03:46 PM	#64
tim916 Private First Class 8 Rep 114 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: RI iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 325i [0.00]	I just picked up my 325 w/Logic 7 on Saturday and I'm really impressed with it. It seems to be very well balanced and the bass is surprisingly accurate and tight for a car system. I have not heard the standard HK system so I can't comment on the differences. __________________ 2006 325i - Jet Black / Black 'ette / Alum / SP / Nav / Logic 7 / Sirius / Xenon / Heated Seats / 18" BBS RC
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03-13-2011, 02:58 PM	#65
Never-Enough Banned 48 Rep 1,038 Posts Drives: 2007 335xi E90 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: PA iTrader: (19)	I know this thread is old, but I wanted to verify that the Logic 7 system was standard & NOT AN OPTION on the 2007-08 335i/xi cars. Am I correct?
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