Test drove a 2012 Porsche 911S over the weekend, surprised the M3 held up

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Carrera S is in a different league performance and handling wise vs the M3.

Handling is one aspect of performance, by the way. I don't know about absolute numbers (they should be close), but no way in hell I prefer the C2S over the M3 handlingwise, even if the Porsche posts better numbers (doubt they're better. Maybe just a hair better). It feels like crap IMO, even though the electronic nannies seem to make the car defy physics.

The only performance aspect where it should clearly have an advantage is standing start acceleration, since it has wider rear tires and A LOT more weight on the rear wheels. I'd imagine roll-on acceleration tests should still benefit the Porsche, but not by much.

As far as the trannies, both use a DCT, so the main differences should be in programming. Seems like the OP prefers fully automatic mode, and that should be achievable in one of the 'D' modes on the DCT, no? If Porsche doesn't have the ability to hold gears, not downshift on WOT, and not upshift when hitting the rev limiter, like the DCT does in 'M' mode, it's crap IMO. Might as well get a wet-clutch planetary automatic like Mercs for better reliability. Even a Ford Fiesta has a DCT nowadays, but doesn't have any way to manually shift it. Oh, and if I was to buy a DCT (sacrilege ), at least I'd like it to have the paddles to operate the 'right way', like on Ferraris. And it does. Porsche, doesn't. Anyway, glad you liked your M3 better, even though it costs a ton less. Only Porsche I'd buy is the Cayman S, but it's ugly as hell on the rear, but that one drives nicer than the M3 IMO. Good day gang.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

110K for a Carrera S is robbery,You can buy one of these for 70-80K right now and blow the doors off of both cars in question.

This was mine a few years back and sticker was 118K brand new..

Yeah....my thoughts exactly. For $70k-$85k, you can get a 2007-2008 GT3. I saw a 2008 with ceramics and only 3k miles for $85k the other day. I'd take this over a Carrera any day. However, I would still need my m3 if I were to get a GT3.

[newowner35i]

im going to say it despite the hate im going to get the 911 is overrated
i ownes a 997 carrera s for 6 months
it was decent to drive but my car had alternator problems that the dealer refused to fix, while driving in the night with lights my battery died, it wasnt safe
and in my mind the m3 is faster, more practical, and better looking, and gives more pleasure

[jonasaurus]

Taking price into account and practicality as a DD the M3 would be my pick and that is exactly what I have done coming from a 6MT 997 C2S. If I was to go back to Porsche it would have to be a weekend car and would def think about a 997.2 GT3.

[karussell]

bang for buck and ease of use daily and on track M3 over C2S hands down. you have to go to GT3 to get anything from porsche worth paying the extra $$$ for that M3 can give with just a few tweaks. i think right now, best bang for buck in porsche terms is 997.1 GT3 RS. rarer than GT3, no sunroof, and nice wide a$$. They are in the sub 90K range if you shop.

[Elie335]

I would take an m3 over any frog anyday.

[saeyedoc]

It makes a huge difference if PDK car has sport chrono. Sport and sport+ modes hold shifts longer and rev match downshifts. Like a completely different car than one without it.

[goto35]

dude you should just get an automatic if you are complaining about the fact you have to downshift or upshift!

[FVM3]

Originally Posted by stuka

430 is not bad, only about 5K for major service.

355 is 8K for major service.

For reference, GT2 major service is 2400 bucks.

One of the most expensive car to maintain is merc SL

[FVM3]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Dont agree with you at all. 911 was my first sports car, and I learned to drive it properly. I find the advantages and the feel much better than the M3. The cayman S obviously is better feel if you arent used to the rear/rear 911.
PDK does hold gears in Sport Plus...so you are wrong on that one. Theres a lot you can do with PDK that people dont know about. Its certainly better in the times ive driven both PDK and DCT. Again, you can get 'proper' paddles with PDK.
Heres a roll on race between an M3 DCT that has an exhaust and tune vs a STOCK 997S with PDK. Can you tell me which car gets destroyed? Oh yea, and the M3 even starts slightly ahead. Slight advantage huh? LOL. Get real man...its significantly faster.

All m3 members admit that their cars are not fast, its not designed for drag race. If OP is a drag guy, go for GTR, smoke whatever you want

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

Yeah....my thoughts exactly. For $70k-$85k, you can get a 2007-2008 GT3. I saw a 2008 with ceramics and only 3k miles for $85k the other day. I'd take this over a Carrera any day. However, I would still need my m3 if I were to get a GT3.

Well that's the plan,pay off the M3 use it as a DD and buy a second hand GT3 with less than 15K miles in a few years for ~65K

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

110K for a Carrera S is robbery,You can buy one of these for 70-80K right now and blow the doors off of both cars in question.

This was mine a few years back and sticker was 118K brand new..

You go crazy on the options list on a new 997.2S and you can easily hit $110k. You are quoting a used car price..which I agree, if I was ever to buy another PCar again I would buy used. I've never seen a car that takes such a massive depreciation hit as the 997 did.

Dave

[Sedan_Clan]

Well written perspective. I'd take the M3 over any normal 911 as well.

[jonasaurus]

Originally Posted by Elie335

I would take an m3 over any frog anyday.

Really? Any Porsche?

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

You go crazy on the options list on a new 997.2S and you can easily hit $110k. You are quoting a used car price..which I agree, if I was ever to buy another PCar again I would buy used. I've never seen a car that takes such a massive depreciation hit as the 997 did.

Dave

Well considering when the 997 was released,how the stock market crashed and the dollar took a hit,it's not too surprising really.Compared to the CS the GT3 was able to hold its value fairly well because of the limited production numbers and shear performance advantage.

I was able to buy the car early '07,at sticker,drive it for 15K miles and sell it for 110K.Needless to say,I did not complain

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Dont agree with you at all. 911 was my first sports car, and I learned to drive it properly.

I can see why . You can also learn to drive 'properly' a turbo Civic that'd blow both cars out of the water, but that doesn't mean it'd feel right. Remember it's not how fast you go, but how you go fast . I wouldn't buy ANY 911 just because the way it handles, but that's just me. As somebody said, it's overrated, and simply not worth what they cost, but that's my opinion. And if the M3s interior is crappy, the Porsche's is downright rental material. The upcoming one will be much better, resembling the Panamera and new Cayenne, but the current layout (even with full leather), is just crap. But also old as hell, so understandable. The M3 is nothing to write home about, as I said, but much better than any 911. The 911 is just a status car, with the possible exception of the GT3, which I haven't driven yet (but it's still rear engined), so can't comment on that one.

As far as the trannies, I clearly said I'm not familiar with them since I'd never buy an automatic sports car, but glad it also has a manual mode. I knew better paddles were available, but don't know if they change gears like Ferraris and M3s. I'd be nice if they do. But I honestly don't care . Since I don't want a pissing contest with a fanboy, signing off this thread .

[persian54]

now now you two... no need to fight about P cars being great or not great...

[FVM3]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

You go crazy on the options list on a new 997.2S and you can easily hit $110k. You are quoting a used car price..which I agree, if I was ever to buy another PCar again I would buy used. I've never seen a car that takes such a massive depreciation hit as the 997 did.

Dave

P sales always claim that their cars hold good value

[FVM3]

Originally Posted by jonasaurus

Really? Any Porsche?

Yes, any

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by karussell

bang for buck and ease of use daily and on track M3 over C2S hands down. you have to go to GT3 to get anything from porsche worth paying the extra $$$ for that M3 can give with just a few tweaks. i think right now, best bang for buck in porsche terms is 997.1 GT3 RS. rarer than GT3, no sunroof, and nice wide a$$. They are in the sub 90K range if you shop.

If you are concerned about bang for your buck, then for sure a 911 is not a good fit for you. There is a fat premium with porsches.

On a more general note, I can understand if a porsche is not for you if you throughly test drive a car (at least to have a good idea of what the car is about). I can respect that. But, it sounds like everyone here just test drove a porsche for maybe only 5 minutes. Like what others have said, "PDK does hold gears in Sport Plus," so it sounds like people have been test driving these porsches without sport chrono or in sport plus mode. That is equivalent to judging a m car without hitting the M button. It makes a world of difference, especially with the m5 or m6.

and the 911, especially the 997.2, is significantly faster than the m3. You are lying to yourself if you believe otherwise because there is a lot of information out there that confirms that.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

You go crazy on the options list on a new 997.2S and you can easily hit $110k. You are quoting a used car price..which I agree, if I was ever to buy another PCar again I would buy used. I've never seen a car that takes such a massive depreciation hit as the 997 did.

Dave

why just a PCar? I did it for my M3 too. It makes too much sense to buy preowned.

BTW, roughly how much dep. hit did you take your first year? In % or $ would be good...

[Seattle S65B40]

Originally Posted by persian54

now now you two... no need to fight about P cars being great or not great...

Love watching JC and Shift@Red go at it...