2011 M3 vs. 2011 S4?

[graider]

Originally Posted by brava09

Maybe it's time for M3 to go awd on option.... Ferrari are not stupid

actually i don't think it's a bad idea. i can see how sliding right/left in the winter with the m3 is not really cool for most folks out there.

[Herms]

Originally Posted by Alex_bm

Test drove the S4 with DSG. The car seems to be very hesitant when launched from stop, like it takes a second or two every time when you push the gas pedal.
Also the seats are no where near BMW sport seats even on my 128... That's almost a deal breaker to me, not enough bolstering and can't be adjusted either.

Overall S4 felt like more like a luxury car than a sports car. Should not be compared to M3

I initially noticed the hesitance as well but learned that the car settings just need adjustment to make the throttle resopnse better. Similar to the M3 actually, but Audi (in every model I've tried so far) has extremely lazy stock settings, which I suspect result in higher-than-real-world fuel ecomony ratings.

Think you're way off on the seats. Not quite as sporty as comfy as the M3 seats, but def sportier than the 335 and certainly 128 and more support too, at least imo.

Again, the S4 is really designed to compare to the 335, and in comparison it feels much sportier and less sedan like than the 335. It has a sport diff, sportier seat design (notwithstanding your opinion abt the bolstering); dual clutch tranny, EDC-like adjustability options, etc..

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by brava09

The purists may not tick the awd option

And then I will be faster with my xDrive M3 than the purists

because let's be honest, it requires a great amount of skill to drive fast a high-powered RWD car...

that's a terrible idea and, thankfully, it will never happen. not to mention, you won't be faster. RWD is faster on a track, where the M3 is designed to excel. take a look at the Carrera 4 vs the regular Carrera - the AWD is slower around a track (not to mention much less communicative and rewarding to drive). offering AWD as an option is just another way to water down the M brand and what it represents (yes, the X6M and X5M are AWD, but those are SUV's).

[brava09]

Originally Posted by Brosef

that's a terrible idea and, thankfully, it will never happen. not to mention, you won't be faster. RWD is faster on a track, where the M3 is designed to excel. take a look at the Carrera 4 vs the regular Carrera - the AWD is slower around a track (not to mention much less communicative and rewarding to drive). offering AWD as an option is just another way to water down the M brand and what it represents (yes, the X6M and X5M are AWD, but those are SUV's).

In daily driving for the regular driver, I am sure the awd M3 would be faster than the RWD M3. Remember, very few of us possess the skill of driving fast a RWD car (me included). Most of the time I have real difficulties putting down the power in 1st and 2nd gear on slippery city tarmac (on dry conditions). Not to mention usability during cold season...I haven't used my M3 for almost 2 months now, what a waste...

For the track use, it's a different story and I agree with you that RWD is faster than the awd...but never tracked my car so far


Ferrari just launched the Ferrari FF with awd...dilution of the brand? I don't think so....

[JonnyM3]

If you think steering feedback is compromised from AWD go drive an 06-07 STi. Far better feedback than our M3's.

[adc]

Originally Posted by brava09

because let's be honest, it requires a great amount of skill to drive fast a high-powered RWD car...

That is a very true statement - but then again, that's precisely where the fun is. Driving a car that challenges you a little and requires an increase in your driving skills surely is not a burden, but a pleasure?

Originally Posted by nal13

So yes I get a little sad when I pull up next to an M3 but then I look at my Penguin alcantara seats and turn up the ridic B&O system and think to myself I still got it pretty good.

I think you've got the perfect car for your priorities.

For example, I don't yearn for an S4 at all - not even last night, when I made it home safely in my M in one of the worst driving conditions the area has ever experienced.

Originally Posted by shift@red

Or go drive a 911 turbo or Carrera 4/4S. All have better steering feel than our M3s despite being AWD.

Comparing apples to apples - meaning cars on the same chassis from the same manufacturer - the RWD versions always have better steering feel. There is a very simple mechanical reason for this, there's no magic involved.

In this vein, adding AWD to an M3 would rob it of the little steering feel it still possesses.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by brava09

In daily driving for the regular driver, I am sure the awd M3 would be faster than the RWD M3. Remember, very few of us possess the skill of driving fast a RWD car (me included). Most of the time I have real difficulties putting down the power in 1st and 2nd gear on slippery city tarmac (on dry conditions). Not to mention usability during cold season...I haven't used my M3 for almost 2 months now, what a waste...

For the track use, it's a different story and I agree with you that RWD is faster than the awd...but never tracked my car so far


Ferrari just launched the Ferrari FF with awd...dilution of the brand? I don't think so....

Perhaps many drivers would be faster with an AWD M in certain conditions (slow corners and/or slippery conditions), but that's not a good reason to offer AWD. Maybe the M is intended for more skilled drivers? Or, if not more skilled drivers, perhaps for drivers that are eager to learn to control a high-powered RWD car? I, for one, find AWD cars to be a bit dull at times, and I thoroughly enjoy inducing power-oversteer at times to push the limits of my abilities and learn car control. Bottom line is that the RWD layout of the M is one of several key differentiators when compared to Audi, and I think it would be a terrible decision for the M engineers to offer AWD.

Also, I drive my M all-year round in Chicago. With winter tires, it performs fantastically, so forgive me but I give you no pity for not using it.

Also, the Ferrari brand is completely different and surely incomparable to the M brand.

Originally Posted by AudiS5

If you think steering feedback is compromised from AWD go drive an 06-07 STi. Far better feedback than our M3's.

Originally Posted by shift@red

Or go drive a 911 turbo or Carrera 4/4S. All have better steering feel than our M3s despite being AWD.

Nowhere in my post did I say that the M3 has better steering feedback than every other AWD car on the road, so your point is irrelevant. Additionally, my previous car was a 997 C2S, and I spent plenty of time behind the wheel of the C4S and can tell you that it's not nearly as communicative or responsive as its RWD counterpart. And that is to say nothing of the fact that the 911 is a rear-engine car, and its steering response is greatly affected as such (in a good way, obviously).

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Of course! I was just making the point that just because a car is AWD doesnt meant it cant have great steering feel. The fact that the AWD 911s have better steering feel than our m3s proves just that. And yes, the AWD loses some of the feel that the RWD Porsches have.

Actually, that doesn't prove much at all. Rear-engine car...

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Or go drive a 911 turbo or Carrera 4/4S. All have better steering feel than our M3s despite being AWD.

I would have to disagree with this statement.

I drove my friends 911 4s a few months ago and was shocked that the M3 had way better steering response/feel.

If I were to buy a 911 it would definitely NOT be the 4wd. I need to drive a C2s to compare to the M3.

[JonnyM3]

STi, Evo the M3 pales in comparison IMO.