2011 ZCP M3 clicking noise

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

So I just went on a little drive and then did the 1000-2000 RPM test in the garage, and I hear a little ticking too. Not valve noise, because it's erratic. It almost sounds like the sound of exhaust cooling. My car has about 5300 miles on it (2011), but it drives like a champ... the engine seems to be getting stronger. I have a hard time believing this noise is anything serious. If a bearing was faulty, wouldn't there be other symptoms, like rough idle or loss of power or something?

God I wish I had never looked at this thread...

Dont worry about that. I think those are just the injectors. The S65 is a relatively "noisy" engine emantling mainly from the valvetrain area. If the sound is emantling from the bottom end of the block, then its something to worry. Take it easy. I really think its just the injectors.

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

New bearings were introduced in 10/08, meaning some early '09s have the old bearings. But forget about that man; learned one '10 and another '11 M3s have the typical bad bearing engine noise on a recent thread. That's freaking unbelievable.

I also question the use of 10/60 oil for all climates. Both Ferrari and Lamborghini, with even higher strung engines, with higher specific outputs and higher redlines, spec 5/40 oil, just like all Porsches (and most sportbikes). TWS is like molasses, especially in cold climates. My only explanation is crappy tolerances. But why BMW didn't make it 5/60 is even more puzzling. Lamborghini recommends 20/50 (most owners use M1 15/50) for track use, and up to 0/30 (most owners use 5/40) for cold climates. Would love to hear BMW's technical explanation for that oil, rather than their marketing crap. I'm going to keep using it because with crappy tolerances you need it, or risk bearing damage, like it happened to S54s, but there's no need for such an extreme grade, proven by all other exotic engine manufacturers using 5/40. Take care.

Absolutely agree. The oil is much too thick! But for Singapore weather, I think its safe we run thicker oils due to the heat. Only problem recently was the oil service interval was changed from 25,000km to 15,000km because many non-M engines came back with sludge build up. I shudder to think why anyone would wait 25,000km to change oil on their engines. I never believed the service intervals of BMW service in my country and generally had outside workshops do it for me. Heck its not any much difference now without warranty anyway. Hahahah...

[Lodaka]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

So I just went on a little drive and then did the 1000-2000 RPM test in the garage, and I hear a little ticking too. Not valve noise, because it's erratic. It almost sounds like the sound of exhaust cooling. My car has about 5300 miles on it (2011), but it drives like a champ... the engine seems to be getting stronger. I have a hard time believing this noise is anything serious. If a bearing was faulty, wouldn't there be other symptoms, like rough idle or loss of power or something?

God I wish I had never looked at this thread...

Hrmm... Yes, mine is also erratic... i.e. irregular. It also sounds exactly like the sound of exhaust cooling. Although the technician agreed that it wasn't, as it went away after the car stopped running, I have to say that I don't have any other issues/errors other than this particular ticking/clicking... yet.

I will reserve my judgment on whether this is serious or not, as it could be a symptom of something serious. I have to admit though that, when I first encountered this noise, I had the same thought as you did, i.e. that it couldn't possibly be serious.

I am dropping off my car tomorrow for a full diagnostic test; the foreman will hopefully be able to figure out what the problem is.

[M3Pilot09]

Thanks for all of your responses. I am taking my car in on the 7th to have a BMW engineer look at my car. I am annoyed!

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Thanks for all of your responses. I am taking my car in on the 7th to have a BMW engineer look at my car. I am annoyed!

Hey OP. How obvious is it on your car? I park in a single garage... walls all around me... and I really have to listen to it. Is your car really loud?

[M3Pilot09]

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

I jost posted on your new thread. It sounds AWFUL. Worst I've ever heard by far. The good news is you're not going to hear 'we can't duplicate your problem' crap . I don't remember you posting this before, but maybe I'm wrong. I asked you on your new thread about more details. Will check this thread for that. Curious about miles, when you started hearing this, and if it coincided with an oil change or something. Unbelievable. It's ridiculous this is happening to new cars. All of a sudden I feel lucky to have an '08 .

EDIT: Just read this thread and you started it too, but you just posted the video. When did you start hearing this noise? After the 1,200-mile service? Please give us more details on your new thread.

[calintexas]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

New bearings were introduced in 10/08, meaning some early '09s have the old bearings. But forget about that man; learned one '10 and another '11 M3s have the typical bad bearing engine noise on a recent thread. That's freaking unbelievable.

I also question the use of 10/60 oil for all climates. Both Ferrari and Lamborghini, with even higher strung engines, with higher specific outputs and higher redlines, spec 5/40 oil, just like all Porsches (and most sportbikes). TWS is like molasses, especially in cold climates. My only explanation is crappy tolerances. But why BMW didn't make it 5/60 is even more puzzling. Lamborghini recommends 20/50 (most owners use M1 15/50) for track use, and up to 0/30 (most owners use 5/40) for cold climates. Would love to hear BMW's technical explanation for that oil, rather than their marketing crap. I'm going to keep using it because with crappy tolerances you need it, or risk bearing damage, like it happened to S54s, but there's no need for such an extreme grade, proven by all other exotic engine manufacturers using 5/40. Take care.

There's quite a bit of information about the TWS oil in this thread on M3forum: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...&highlight=tws. I don't know how accurate what's there is, but it's a good read

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Oh shite that's awful. My condolences. Keep us informed on this... I'm really curious to hear what the issue is.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by calintexas

There's quite a bit of information about the TWS oil in this thread on M3forum

It was a great read indeed ; thanks man. The most interesting part was this:

'When asked, what if you don't track your M3 and never exceed 150 kmh? He honestly found the question puzzling and answered "why would you buy an M3 if you didn't plan on driving it fast; there are other less powerful but more suitable 3 series choices available"? I told him my dentist who had an M3 was typical of most M3 owners in N/A. He likes the performance looks of the car, the status of it but he's never driven it faster than 140 kmh and typically cruises in the 120 kmh range. He found this 'poser mentality' very strange but agreed an M3 driven in such a manner would never see higher oil temps than a regular 3 series BMW and consiquently the regular BMW spec' oil would be more appropriate.'

Guess the guy doesn't know the speed limits here in the states . And he also doesn't know to some of us it's an equal pleasure to drive the M3 fast and slow . Seems to me that 5/40 oil should be perfectly fine for owners who don't track their cars, and rarely exceed 6,500 rpm or so. But manual doesn't say anything about that . Since my car is rarely used in freezing temperatures (and now even less), will continue to use TWS.

[NeoE46]

Originally Posted by Lodaka

Hrmm... Yes, mine is also erratic... i.e. irregular

I am dropping off my car tomorrow for a full diagnostic test; the foreman will hopefully be able to figure out what the problem is.

Any updates from the dealers? My car is making the same exact noise. Anybody find it weird that the sound is loudest from the driver side wheel well?

[Mjolnir]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Odd that the noise is so irregular. How does it sound when revv'd?

[Lodaka]

Originally Posted by NeoE46

Any updates from the dealers? My car is making the same exact noise. Anybody find it weird that the sound is loudest from the driver side wheel well?

The update is pretty much no update so far. I am driving around in a 328i xdrive given to me as a loaner. Nice car, but no M3.

When I spoke to the dealership at the end of yesterday, the service advisor told me that there are procedures that need to be followed and they need to get some sort of permission from some other rmain office to look deeper into the engine. So leaving out Sunday (service technicians also work on Saturdays), they had Friday, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to do something and nothing was done. I asked him why it was taking five days to get this permission, and he couldn't answer.

I wouldn't mind if the actual repair were taking this long but I am just frustrated that they have it for almost a week and they haven't even started looking. I also hate it when they say: "I will call you tomorrow and let you know how it's going" and they don't.

As for the other question, I didn't realize this at first but I think rev'ing does increase the frequency a tad. I can't test it now but on my way to drop the car off to the dealership, I did notice that whenever I started off from a standing position, I noticed that the frequency went up. I couldn't test this enough to be 100% sure about this, as I could only test it when there was some sort of barrier right against the side of the car... i.e. easier to hear the clicking noise.

I will ensure to post an update if I hear something.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Lodaka

The update is pretty much no update so far. I am driving around in a 328i xdrive given to me as a loaner. Nice car, but no M3.

When I spoke to the dealership at the end of yesterday, the service advisor told me that there are procedures that need to be followed and they need to get some sort of permission from some other rmain office to look deeper into the engine. So leaving out Sunday (service technicians also work on Saturdays), they had Friday, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to do something and nothing was done. I asked him why it was taking five days to get this permission, and he couldn't answer.

I wouldn't mind if the actual repair were taking this long but I am just frustrated that they have it for almost a week and they haven't even started looking. I also hate it when they say: "I will call you tomorrow and let you know how it's going" and they don't.

As for the other question, I didn't realize this at first but I think rev'ing does increase the frequency a tad. I can't test it now but on my way to drop the car off to the dealership, I did notice that whenever I started off from a standing position, I noticed that the frequency went up. I couldn't test this enough to be 100% sure about this, as I could only test it when there was some sort of barrier right against the side of the car... i.e. easier to hear the clicking noise.

I will ensure to post an update if I hear something.

I know the wait sucks, but I am glad to hear they are trying to solve the problem. With so many owners getting the "There is nothing wrong" reply from dealers, this is refreshing.

[Lodaka]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

I know the wait sucks, but I am glad to hear they are trying to solve the problem. With so many owners getting the "There is nothing wrong" reply from dealers, this is refreshing.

Yea, I half expected them to say that there was nothing wrong with it when I first showed it to them. Keep in mind that it might be that we are not at that stage yet, i.e. the dealership may still come back and say there is nothing wrong with it.

A few random thoughts about this issue:

- I've seen a few posts where some people said that they didn't realize they had this clicking noise issue until they saw this post (or posts simialr to this). I wonder how prevalent this issue is. I do note that it's not that easy to hear it if you are inside the car with the windows up. Even with the windows down, it's not that easy unless you are stopped beside a wall or barrier that would reflect the sound back to you. Very easy to hear it if you are outside the car listing for it with the car on however.
- Also, there was a poster whose clicking noise eventually went away after some time. I believe his M3 started to click after the break-in serivce.
- Why did this happen after the break-in service? I am entirely positive that this noise wasn't there prior to the break-in service because I noticed it the moment I came back to my garage the same day and noticed the noise right away. It just doesn't make sense to me. What could be some of the possibilities?

Hrmm...

[M3Pilot09]

Dropped my car off at he dealer and spoke to the engineer from BMW corporate. I should hear something tomorrow regarding what they discover. From my research is sounds like the main bearings. I told them if thats the case I do not plan on taking it back.

[jdgamble]

So I talked to one of the BMWCCA technical advisors today about my clicking. He owns an independent shop and hasn't really worked on S65 engines yet, but he did say that if I have a rod or main bearing issue, it would be a lot more obvious than subtle ticking. I remember the E46 bearing issue (a buddy had one with the issue), and those cars sounded horrible at all engine speeds when the bearings failed... like really loud knocking. So I feel a little better. I'm still dying to hear what your dealerships say.

[NeoE46]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

I'm still dying to hear what your dealerships say.

Me too. One thing I didn't mention is that I heard the noise a year ago and then it went away. I live in Texas and the only thing I can think of that has changed recently is the weather.......the daytime temps are now around 75 instead of the usual 95. Not sure if that has anything to do with anything, but I first heard the noise around the same time last year. At first I thought it was the headers cooling as it does not match the rev of the engine at all like others have stated.

It would be good to see what they say, even if it is "normal" it would be good to know what is causing the sound.

[kouhii]

This noise gets louder as the weather temperature increases.
It will very loud in greater than 90F days!

Also this normal noise thing is bullshit! Go to a dealer that will fix it for you.

[Lodaka]

Ah... what some of you have been waiting for. I got a call from the dealership yesterday. I will try my best to reproduce what they told me here:

They said that there is a "slab of metal panel" between the engine blocks and the oil pan. They tracked the source of the noise down to this metal panel. In their opinion, the clicking sound is originating from this metal panel being torqued out of spec, i.e. they think it's torqued too hard. They ordered a new part from Germany and will attempt to fix this. They also told me that they did actually saw this problem before and are relatively confident that this will address the issue.

A few comments on this explanation:

- I heard all of the above from a service advisor who was not involved with the process, as the responsible SA was away yesterday. Therefore, he didn't really understand (and he told me as much) the situation but was just relaying the message from the technicians. I was promised a full explanation when I go there to pick up the car.

- I am a little perplexed why they now say that they had this problem before, because when I first brought the car to them, they had no idea what the noise was. I will give them the benefit of the doubt though; at least, there is some hope. I am keeping my fingers crossed about this.

- The new part will arrive in 9 days. Ugh. So, hopefully I can update this issue at that time, depending on people's interest on finding out what happens.

In the meantime, I am hoping for snow in October so I can take advantage of xDrive. J/K.

[M3Pilot09]

Ok the dealer is dropping the oil pan and tightening some plate that rest above it and that's where the engineers think the problem is. I still do not want the car back and I do not think this is going to fix the problem. They just want to rip my car apart and they are keeping it until next Wednesday

[M3Pilot09]

Ok I spoke to the dealer and I am not very happy. My 3 month old 2011 M3 ZCP with the clicking noise is being worked on as we speak. However, this includes dropping the subframe to access the oilpan, etc. with no guarantee of a resolution. I am not happy about my car being ripped apart. Anyone else have feedback on this issue.