E93+DCT=Dog???

quality_sound · 08-15-2009, 05:03 PM

I finally got to test drive an M3 today and they only had a DCT so I took that out and holy jeebus was I disappointed. The car would simply not get out of it's own way I currently drive a GTI and with the APR flash I'm making 265HP/303Lb-ft and with it being a lot lighter than the M3 I knew it would be close but the M3 just felt like a dog. No matter what mode I was in, if the power button was pressed, it just never pressed me back into my seat like my GTI does and that disappointed the hell out of me. I still want to drive a manual M3 and hopefully it's better. If the manual disappoints as well I may just go with a 550i or an X5 diesel.

Thoughts?

Im really hoping the manual is that much better.

footie · 08-15-2009, 05:10 PM

That's the turbo effect in action. I agree that the M3 doesn't feel overly quick, but put it up against your GTi and watch it drift off into the distance.

Lemans_Blue_M · 08-15-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I finally got to test drive an M3 today and they only had a DCT so I took that out and holy jeebus was I disappointed. The car would simply not get out of it's own weight. I currently drive a GTI and with the APR flash I'm making 265HP/303Lb-ft and with it being a lot lighter than the M3 I knew it would be close but the M3 just felt like a dog. No matter what mode I was in, if the power button was pressed, it just never pressed me back into my seat like my GTI does and that disappointed the hell out of me. I still want to drive a manual M3 and hopefully it's better. If the manual disappoints as well I may just go with a 550i or an X5 diesel.

Thoughts?

Im really hoping the manual is that much better.

lol..

Yes, the vert is a much heavier car than your GTI, so I can see how you would be disappointed. But, it's not really fair to compare those two cars.

The E93 vert DCT performance vs. the E92 DCT coupe for example would be much closer.

AZ-BMW · 08-15-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I finally got to test drive an M3 today and they only had a DCT so I took that out and holy jeebus was I disappointed. The car would simply not get out of it's own weight. I currently drive a GTI and with the APR flash I'm making 265HP/303Lb-ft and with it being a lot lighter than the M3 I knew it would be close but the M3 just felt like a dog. No matter what mode I was in, if the power button was pressed, it just never pressed me back into my seat like my GTI does and that disappointed the hell out of me. I still want to drive a manual M3 and hopefully it's better. If the manual disappoints as well I may just go with a 550i or an X5 diesel.

Thoughts?

Im really hoping the manual is that much better.

Turn on the Power switch (improves throttle responsiveness), flip to Manual mode and use the paddles, then

In Auto "D" mode the DCT starts the car out in 2nd gear, but in manual mode you are in 1st gear. Recommend now doing a comparison drive

quality_sound · 08-15-2009, 05:26 PM

I don't have ANY intention of buying a DCT I just want to see if the manual M3 has more giddy-up. I know it's not a fair comparison but it's what I have against what I'm going into.

footie - It's not the turbo effect, the E93 DCT just wouldn't get going. It took forever and a day to get up to speed. I guarantee you if I took out my GTI and that particular M3 out my GTI would walk that M3. I'm not saying I'd take, all, or even most M3s but the one I drove was a dog.

The dealer is getting E90 and E92 testers sometime Monday, unfortunately both DCTs as well, but I'm going to give them a run for shits and giggles since I'll be there driving the 550 and X5 anyway.

quality_sound · 08-15-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ-BMW

Turn on the Power switch (improves throttle responsiveness), flip to Manual mode and use the paddles, then

In Auto "D" mode the DCT starts the car out in 2nd gear, but in manual mode you are in 1st gear. Recommend now doing a comparison drive

I did all of that and it STILL lagged. It was weird but it felt REALLY underpowered. Like it needed another 100lb-ft of torque. I'm thinking there ws either something wrong with that car or the tranny adapted to drivers babying it.

I will be going back Monday so I'll take out the E90 and E92 they have coming in and report back with the updates. I really wish they'd get a 6MT in. I HATE buying a car without driving one first.

chris719 · 08-15-2009, 05:53 PM

You have to get into the upper rev range. It won't feel fast probably anyway. Feeling is different than reality, I have been in some slow cars with turbos that feel much faster than you would think.

330CIZHP · 08-15-2009, 05:59 PM

If you were looking for fast acceleration, why did you bother driving a Vert in the first place?? Are you not aware that it is close to 500 lbs heavier than the coupe/sedans??? It is barely quicker than a E46 M3 or 335 by a small margin.

Unfortunately, weight on the Vert FTL!!!! It is simple physics. It is a GT cruiser with open air experience costing some performance.

Go try a coupe or a sedan, they both weigh 3600 lbs. Drive a 6 speed manual and if you know how to get the most with 6 speed, anyone of these should blow you away with the acceleration.

AZ-BMW · 08-15-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I did all of that and it STILL lagged. It was weird but it felt REALLY underpowered. Like it needed another 100lb-ft of torque. I'm thinking there was either something wrong with that car or the tranny adapted to drivers babying it.

Sounds like the dealer may not have installed the latest PROGMAN version yet

niqui · 08-15-2009, 10:37 PM

the m3 is deceptively fast.

warzilla · 08-15-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I did all of that and it STILL lagged. It was weird but it felt REALLY underpowered. Like it needed another 100lb-ft of torque. I'm thinking there ws either something wrong with that car or the tranny adapted to drivers babying it.

I will be going back Monday so I'll take out the E90 and E92 they have coming in and report back with the updates. I really wish they'd get a 6MT in. I HATE buying a car without driving one first.

Vert is fat/heavy. DCT is faster then manual. If you don't feel the M3 is fast enough for you (compared to your current car), don't get it. What else is there to say.

ecksreturns · 08-16-2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warzilla

Vert is fat/heavy. DCT is faster then manual. If you don't feel the M3 is fast enough for you (compared to your current car), don't get it. What else is there to say.

osteome · 08-16-2009, 03:00 AM

Shopping a M3 Vert vs an X5...something I am misssing here? A little different in vehicle type.

We have the vert with a manual as we wanted a vert. We did not going shopping for anything else, but did initially intend to get a 335.

I do not street race and most likely will track miminally (should take it the 'Ring while I am in Germany as it would be shame to miss the opportunity). The advantage of open motoring was worth the compromise in performance for us. Then again, it will own most of the locally driven diesels that the Germans embrace.

quality_sound · 08-16-2009, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719

You have to get into the upper rev range. It won't feel fast probably anyway. Feeling is different than reality, I have been in some slow cars with turbos that feel much faster than you would think.

I think I'm weird but I don't usually beat the crap out of a tester so I didn't get much over 6K-6.5K. I'll try getting it a bit more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

If you were looking for fast acceleration, why did you bother driving a Vert in the first place?? Are you not aware that it is close to 500 lbs heavier than the coupe/sedans??? It is barely quicker than a E46 M3 or 335 by a small margin.

Unfortunately, weight on the Vert FTL!!!! It is simple physics. It is a GT cruiser with open air experience costing some performance.

Go try a coupe or a sedan, they both weigh 3600 lbs. Drive a 6 speed manual and if you know how to get the most with 6 speed, anyone of these should blow you away with the acceleration.

I HAD to drive the E93, it's all they'll have until Monday and then the coupe E90 and E92 they're getting will be DCTs. I may take the E90 for a run since that's what I'm looking at anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ-BMW

Sounds like the dealer may not have installed the latest PROGMAN version yet

Ya know, I didn't even ask about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warzilla

Vert is fat/heavy. DCT is faster then manual. If you don't feel the M3 is fast enough for you (compared to your current car), don't get it. What else is there to say.

I agree and I would never do so. The point of my post was to find out if what I experienced was because of the tranny or the weight or something else and if I should expect a noticeable inprovement with the 6MT. I doubt I'll be able to test a manual before I order so I'll just have to beat the hell out of the DCT tester in the mean time.

What I'm thnking is itwas mostly the weight and me not getting on it too hard that were the main issues. I'll hammer on the next one and report back Monday evening (it'll be Monday morning for you guys).
Thanks guys!

quality_sound · 08-16-2009, 04:43 AM

[QUOTE=osteome;5705847]Shopping a M3 Vert vs an X5...something I am misssing here? A little different in vehicle type. [\quote]

The X5 is for my wife. I'm looking at the M3 and 550i.

Quote:

I do not street race and most likely will track miminally (should take it the 'Ring while I am in Germany as it would be shame to miss the opportunity). The advantage of open motoring was worth the compromise in performance for us. Then again, it will own most of the locally driven diesels that the Germans embrace.

Yeah, we just got here in May but we will be hitting the Ring when my wife gets back from Kuwait. My SQ doesn't deploy for the most part so I'll have some time to get familiar with the car before we make that trip.

mixja · 08-16-2009, 05:40 AM

If you want an M3 for performance, don't get the convertible, get the sedan or coupe. The vert really has too much weight (an extra 250kgs) and the flat torque curve of the V8 engine is much better suited to a lighter car. Only get the vert if you really must have an open top...

You test drove the best transmission in terms of performance, the manual has taller gearing from 3rd gear onwards so it will feel even slower...

And you really need to rev the engine to maximise the performance, this car is fast in gear from 80-160km/h but not so fast compared to others like the C63 from 80-120km/h...

quality_sound · 08-16-2009, 06:17 AM

I haven't searched yet so I'm sure I'm gonna get hammered for asking but where can I find some dyno charts?

You say the manual has shorter gearing in first and second so that might me best for me. I don't really drive fast, i just like to get up to Autobahn speed (130KPH) quickly. I usually won't spend any time over 160KPH. I'm thinking the manual might be mote in line with that driving style. I will also make a trip or two to The Ring but that'll be the extent of my track time most likely.

kidney1 · 08-16-2009, 06:34 AM

Dude, the pedal to the extreme right needs to be stepped on.

X5 is for soccer moms.

quality_sound · 08-16-2009, 06:50 AM

Oh for fuck's sake. Read before you post. The X5 is for my wife and the M WAS floored I just didn't run it redline. I'm going to try that Monday in an E90 and see how it goes. Sheesh...

smmmurf · 08-16-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I think I'm weird but I don't usually beat the crap out of a tester so I didn't get much over 6K-6.5K. I'll try getting it a bit more.

I HAD to drive the E93, it's all they'll have until Monday and then the coupe E90 and E92 they're getting will be DCTs. I may take the E90 for a run since that's what I'm looking at anyway.

Ya know, I didn't even ask about that.

I agree and I would never do so. The point of my post was to find out if what I experienced was because of the tranny or the weight or something else and if I should expect a noticeable inprovement with the 6MT. I doubt I'll be able to test a manual before I order so I'll just have to beat the hell out of the DCT tester in the mean time.

What I'm thnking is itwas mostly the weight and me not getting on it too hard that were the main issues. I'll hammer on the next one and report back Monday evening (it'll be Monday morning for you guys).
Thanks guys!

Your GTI is probably as fast or faster than an M3 Convertible at lower speeds given its weight... It didn't help that you were missing ~100hp by not taking it to redline. Find a broken in sedan or coupe with over 2,000 km. Then you can get a real impression of how fast the car is... it's not amazing but it is quite adequate and a ton of fun to drive. The high-rev V8 is awesome.

quality_sound · 08-16-2009, 07:35 AM

I didn't even think to check the mileage but I'm thinking since it's a tester for military sales that it is pretty well broken in.

Thanks for the info though. I didn't realize all the power was up top. I figured since it was a V8 that it would have more oomph down low. I will say that it was a GREAT drive anyway. Everything felt very solid and the suspension and grip are AMAZING.

mkoesel · 08-16-2009, 08:33 AM

As others have said the M3 cab has a big weight penalty. After driving the E90 M3s (not to mention M5s and M6s) at the M school, I did notice a small difference in acceleration when getting back into my M3. But it is not as dramatic as one might guess.

I suspect you are mainly feeling the difference in power curve between a small displacement motor with big boost and high revving naturally aspirated V8. Plus, you didn't get to redline the car which makes a huge difference. I'll bet if you go test drive an E92 335i and E92 M3 back to back, while not going above 6k in the M3 as you did in your test drive of the E93, you'll have the exact same opinion (the M3 feels slow).

08-15-2009, 05:03 PM	#1
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	E93+DCT=Dog??? I finally got to test drive an M3 today and they only had a DCT so I took that out and holy jeebus was I disappointed. The car would simply not get out of it's own way I currently drive a GTI and with the APR flash I'm making 265HP/303Lb-ft and with it being a lot lighter than the M3 I knew it would be close but the M3 just felt like a dog. No matter what mode I was in, if the power button was pressed, it just never pressed me back into my seat like my GTI does and that disappointed the hell out of me. I still want to drive a manual M3 and hopefully it's better. If the manual disappoints as well I may just go with a 550i or an X5 diesel. Thoughts? Im really hoping the manual is that much better. Last edited by quality_sound; 08-16-2009 at 06:09 AM..
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08-15-2009, 05:10 PM	#2
footie Major General 1118 Rep 8,017 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	That's the turbo effect in action. I agree that the M3 doesn't feel overly quick, but put it up against your GTi and watch it drift off into the distance.
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08-15-2009, 05:26 PM	#5
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	I don't have ANY intention of buying a DCT I just want to see if the manual M3 has more giddy-up. I know it's not a fair comparison but it's what I have against what I'm going into. footie - It's not the turbo effect, the E93 DCT just wouldn't get going. It took forever and a day to get up to speed. I guarantee you if I took out my GTI and that particular M3 out my GTI would walk that M3. I'm not saying I'd take, all, or even most M3s but the one I drove was a dog. The dealer is getting E90 and E92 testers sometime Monday, unfortunately both DCTs as well, but I'm going to give them a run for shits and giggles since I'll be there driving the 550 and X5 anyway.
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08-15-2009, 05:53 PM	#7
chris719 Major General 7334 Rep 7,298 Posts Drives: '08 M Roadster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	You have to get into the upper rev range. It won't feel fast probably anyway. Feeling is different than reality, I have been in some slow cars with turbos that feel much faster than you would think.
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08-15-2009, 05:59 PM	#8
330CIZHP Major 62 Rep 1,211 Posts Drives: BMW 330 CI ZHP Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Calgary, Alberta iTrader: (0)	If you were looking for fast acceleration, why did you bother driving a Vert in the first place?? Are you not aware that it is close to 500 lbs heavier than the coupe/sedans??? It is barely quicker than a E46 M3 or 335 by a small margin. Unfortunately, weight on the Vert FTL!!!! It is simple physics. It is a GT cruiser with open air experience costing some performance. Go try a coupe or a sedan, they both weigh 3600 lbs. Drive a 6 speed manual and if you know how to get the most with 6 speed, anyone of these should blow you away with the acceleration.
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08-15-2009, 10:37 PM	#10
niqui Brigadier General 127 Rep 3,110 Posts Drives: Jet Black E92 M3 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Canada iTrader: (7)	the m3 is deceptively fast.
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08-16-2009, 03:00 AM	#13
osteome Major 195 Rep 1,275 Posts Drives: 2020 X5 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany iTrader: (4)	Shopping a M3 Vert vs an X5...something I am misssing here? A little different in vehicle type. We have the vert with a manual as we wanted a vert. We did not going shopping for anything else, but did initially intend to get a 335. I do not street race and most likely will track miminally (should take it the 'Ring while I am in Germany as it would be shame to miss the opportunity). The advantage of open motoring was worth the compromise in performance for us. Then again, it will own most of the locally driven diesels that the Germans embrace. __________________ 2022 M4 Competition ConvertibleDravit / Tartufo Full / Carbon Fiber Exterior...loaded 2020 X5:MW/Coffee Extended Merino, M Sport, B&W....loaded 2007 X3: Sapphire Black / Black loaded 6 speed Gone: M3 E93 Silverstone II over Bamboo
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08-16-2009, 05:40 AM	#16
mixja Captain 50 Rep 780 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 DCT Silverstone Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Beverly Hils, CA iTrader: (1)	If you want an M3 for performance, don't get the convertible, get the sedan or coupe. The vert really has too much weight (an extra 250kgs) and the flat torque curve of the V8 engine is much better suited to a lighter car. Only get the vert if you really must have an open top... You test drove the best transmission in terms of performance, the manual has taller gearing from 3rd gear onwards so it will feel even slower... And you really need to rev the engine to maximise the performance, this car is fast in gear from 80-160km/h but not so fast compared to others like the C63 from 80-120km/h...
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08-16-2009, 06:17 AM	#17
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	I haven't searched yet so I'm sure I'm gonna get hammered for asking but where can I find some dyno charts? You say the manual has shorter gearing in first and second so that might me best for me. I don't really drive fast, i just like to get up to Autobahn speed (130KPH) quickly. I usually won't spend any time over 160KPH. I'm thinking the manual might be mote in line with that driving style. I will also make a trip or two to The Ring but that'll be the extent of my track time most likely.
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08-16-2009, 06:34 AM	#18
kidney1 Giggity 0 Rep 18 Posts Drives: '09 M3 Vert Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	Dude, the pedal to the extreme right needs to be stepped on. X5 is for soccer moms. __________________ $C:documents and settings\owner\desktop\fat$
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08-16-2009, 06:50 AM	#19
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	Oh for fuck's sake. Read before you post. The X5 is for my wife and the M WAS floored I just didn't run it redline. I'm going to try that Monday in an E90 and see how it goes. Sheesh...
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08-16-2009, 07:35 AM	#21
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	I didn't even think to check the mileage but I'm thinking since it's a tester for military sales that it is pretty well broken in. Thanks for the info though. I didn't realize all the power was up top. I figured since it was a V8 that it would have more oomph down low. I will say that it was a GREAT drive anyway. Everything felt very solid and the suspension and grip are AMAZING.
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08-16-2009, 08:33 AM	#22
mkoesel Moderator 7515 Rep 19,368 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	As others have said the M3 cab has a big weight penalty. After driving the E90 M3s (not to mention M5s and M6s) at the M school, I did notice a small difference in acceleration when getting back into my M3. But it is not as dramatic as one might guess. I suspect you are mainly feeling the difference in power curve between a small displacement motor with big boost and high revving naturally aspirated V8. Plus, you didn't get to redline the car which makes a huge difference. I'll bet if you go test drive an E92 335i and E92 M3 back to back, while not going above 6k in the M3 as you did in your test drive of the E93, you'll have the exact same opinion (the M3 feels slow).
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