Rod bearings preventive maintenance

[aus]

Originally Posted by nholmes

This thread took a turn for the weird.

Well, you know who always turns it into a mess because he won't accept there are SOME motors with bad bearings. He also won't admit, most of the bearings pulled had abnormal wear to nearly everyone but him.

Everyone has to make a decision for themselves... some can't handle it when our personal decision doesn't go along with his OPINION.
.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

If you're worried about automotive asthetics, you might as well just lease cars. Problem solved.



Who cares? Why not post about you wonderful save in the high mileage '08 thread? I'm sure they're dying to hear about it.



It's a vast conspiracy, deeper than Kennedy. Therefore we must always believe anonymous internet guy, and disbelieve, anything said in the real world.

I've had farts that made more sense than this.....

[pbonsalb]

According to Killerfish, worn bearings slide in and out of the rod and make noise. He also says they are paper thin and you can see them sliding in and out:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=37

This link should help everyone realize Killerfish knows what he is writing about and that this problem is way overblown.

I disregarded Killerfish's wisdom and changed my bearings as preventative maintenance when my warranty ran out. About the only thing I agree with Killerfish on is that the problem affects a small minority of cars. However, I think it is wrong to tell people not to consider changing the bearings as preventative maintenance given the relatively modest cost compared to bearing failure. Killerfish's inference that since original bearings have lasted for 130k on his car and 265k on another car, they will last for at least 265k or even 300k on all cars is naive, ignorant, irresponsible and misleading.

[Doc Oc]

I forgot about that post. If I'm not mistaken he was comparing a worn, functioning bearing to a destroyed piece out of a blown engine, saying until they look like that it's overblown nonsense. Problem is, by the time they look like that it is far too late.

[nholmes]

I don't give a flying fuck what the Internet armchair experts tell me, my Blackstone OA came back showing that the bearings we're going tits up.

Can't argue with concrete data.

Thanks for playing though!

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

According to Killerfish, worn bearings slide in and out of the rod and make noise. He also says they are paper thin and you can see them sliding in and out:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=37

This link should help everyone realize Killerfish knows what he is writing about and that this problem is way overblown.

Noise, yes, noise is what professional techs use to diagnose rod bearing issues. This is what I was told at the service department of my dealership, when I inquired about bearings. They asked me about noises. But again going by the internet, real world advise is useless, and you must yank out your bearings irregardless or mileage, and take a picture of them.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I disregarded Killerfish's wisdom and changed my bearings as preventative maintenance when my warranty ran out.

You changed your bearings long before I even bought my car, so get your facts straight. When you did your "preventative maintenance" I owned a 335I, and hadn't even started commenting on this crap.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

However, I think it is wrong to tell people not to consider changing the bearings as preventative maintenance given the relatively modest cost compared to bearing failure.

I don't disagree with the idea of changing the bearings, especially on low mileage, late model vehicles. These cars are at the greatest risk of failure, stemming from engine assembly issues. However, as the mileage increases, it becomes counter intuitive because the vehicle is obviously assembled correctly, and the increased risk of mickey mousing your (non rod honed, in-frame, rod bearing installation) factors into the equation. By the way, that is another thing we disagree on. Real world techs say that when you do a rod bearing change, you MUST hone your rods. In other words, they are expecting you to be doing this, as part of an engine rebuild, and not an in-frame rod bearing change. You and the internet feel that Honing the rods is crap, and that an in-frame change> engine rebuild/reassembly.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Killerfish's inference that since original bearings have lasted for 130k on his car and 265k on another car, they will last for at least 265k or even 300k on all cars is naive, ignorant, irresponsible and misleading.

The 265K car, as well as the contless 150-250K cars on here (just check out the high mileage threads) are very significant. They prove the lifespan of oem bearings when properly installed at the factory. Aftermarket bearings are still in their infancy. I'm laughing at the claims of 10-30K miles driven. It will take at least a decade to reach or surpass 265K post installation miles, and even then, you've only proved that the particular brand of rods, and bolts can possibly equal oem durability.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by nholmes

I don't give a flying fuck what the Internet armchair experts tell me, my Blackstone OA came back showing that the bearings we're going tits up.

Can't argue with concrete data.

Thanks for playing though!

If you want to believe that at 100K miles an unnecessary rod bearing change is all you need for maintenance/track worthiness, then you have another thing coming. I can give you a brief list of parts that are just, d o n e on your car, and they will cost a lot more than that 2K to replace. So, yeah, you wasted your money bro.

[nholmes]

Probably already swapped out.

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by nholmes

I don't give a flying fuck what the Internet armchair experts tell me,

Yet you went ahead and fitted non OEM spec, undersized untested bearings in your car.
Without the faintest idea of what the outcome will be.
Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by nholmes

Thanks for playing though!

Indeed.

[jcolley]

Just out of curiosity, how many people providing opinions in this thread actually *build* engines?

Show of hands?

[pbonsalb]

I put stock rod bearings, though WPC treated, and stock rod bolts in my car. They were the later non lead bearings, while I had the lead bearings. I do not believe it is necessary to disassemble the engine, remove the rods, hone the big ends, and reassemble the engine to do a rod bearing change. Virtually no one is doing that. Not EAS, not MRF, not any of the other shops. Probably not even the BMW dealers doing rod bearing changes. It is way too much work and not necessary, but certainly the ideal way if money is no object.

Aftermarket rod bearing bolt makers recommend honing the rod since clamping forces may vary from stock. But a few shops have done testing on cranks and bearings and rods and bolts out of the car to determine torque settings that work. And none of the shops doing preventative maintenance rod bearing changes with aftermarket bolts are disassembling the engine to change the bearings.

I think there is a range in terms of what works for bearings. BMW used the small end of that range. I would try the big end of the range without worry.

To me the biggest worry is that my engine might blow up because of the rod bearings. Killerfish writing that no one should worry about rod bearings because his car is fine at 130k just shows how small and limited his world is -- it all revolves around his limited experience and limited knowledge. I'll listen to a lot of others before him.

As for the argument that if your bearings are no longer low mileage, you have nothing to worry about, I see very limited logic in that. Bearings have been pulled with 50k, 60k, 70k, 80k, 90k, 100k and shown accelerated wear. It would be great if there was some mileage or age or other test that was definitive, but there is not. Many have looked, but no one has found anything anywhere close to definitive.

We all have risks that we take action to insure against, and we do so in different ways. I agree that rod bearing failure risk is a small one, but so is a heart attack at age 45 and you probably have health insurance and life insurance. People have to make their own decisions about whether they want to do anything. Again, I agree the odds are with you that you can do nothing and be fine.

[Green-Eggs]

I can honestly say I've seen all of these topics already discussed to death -- except the conspiracy theory that the site owner is now conspiring with VAC and BE Bearings (a guy he banned) to hide all the motors blowing with their aftermarket bearings. That's pretty funny and I'd like to know more about that one.

A few years ago, my local dealer had four cars in at the same time for rod bearing failure. A year later, they told me they had never seen a single rod bearing failure -- EVER -- in their shop.

Honing the rod is important especially when you change rod bolt brands. This is because the different clamping force of the different types of rod bolts creates bore distortion, not because the rod big end bore has worn out. This is why BE Bearings went the extra mile to measure clamping force of different rod bolts, graph the bore distortion, and give specs to help minimize it. If you use OEM rod bolts, you will be fine and if you use rod bolts to BE specifications, you are fine. If Killer's experts didn't know this, then they're not experts. Note to Killerfixation: BMW service manual doesn't require honing the rod big end for replacing rod bearings.

No real proof has ever been provided of assembly errors. There was one who showed a head bolt in an angle. (Should be obvious that's not related to rod bearings.) But when he stuck a dowel in the bolt bore, it was obvious the hole was not machined incorrectly and I never saw a follow up to explain how a head bolt could have ever been installed at such a severe angle. Just saying, there was never proof and still isn't.

[nholmes]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Yet you went ahead and fitted non OEM spec, undersized untested bearings in your car.
Without the faintest idea of what the outcome will be.
Good luck with that.



Indeed.

Just like the countless others that have already done so?

Tinfoil hat much?

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by nholmes

Just like the countless others that have already done so?

Ah OK well that is fine then, as long as plenty of people have fitted the under sized BE bearings, nothing can possibly go wrong!

[nholmes]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Ah OK well that is fine then, as long as plenty of people have fitted the under sized BE bearings, nothing can possibly go wrong!

After me, you'll be the first person to know when my motor grenades just so you can wag your finger and feel good about being right.

What does it matter what I do with my car? It's my money and time, why is everyone so worried about everyone else?

[aus]

Originally Posted by nholmes

That's awesome!!

.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by nholmes

After me, you'll be the first person to know when my motor grenades just so you can wag your finger and feel good about being right.

What does it matter what I do with my car? It's my money and time, why is everyone so worried about everyone else?

Those bearings had 1 million miles left in them!

[nholmes]

[Doc Oc]

Those bearings look like shit....wow....thought mine were bad.

[Bucki14]

If this was such a big deal then why has no one in the NJ area with a Rod bearing change aided in this lawsuit?

(S65 class action looking for nj resident with rod bearing failure)
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1226279

[pbonsalb]

Not sure a preventative maintenance rod bearing change qualifies you for the lawsuit. You need rod bearing failure. Not sure whether there have been failures in NJ or whether those with failures in NJ know about this website or about the lawsuit. I'd guess only a small percentage of M3 owners are on BMW forums on the internet. Advertising the lawsuit in Roundel could help some, but not all M3 owners belong to BMWCCA.