Best fuel/octane for SC M3

[E92_Nick]

Hey guys,
Recentley picked up an ESS 625 Kit. Will be attending the upcoming Shift S3ctor airstrip attack and was just wondering what fuel/octance has given the best gains? As coming back from an FBO F82, I used to run a blend with E85. I have heard some people have been blending about 2 gallons of e85 in with a full tank of pump gas however Idk how well it works with the E9X platform.... So my question would be, does the ecu only read up to a certain amount of octane due to the paramaters set on the ecu? Would you guys suggest. MS109 straight or mixed with pump gas? Or 100oct straight or mixed? Or 2 Gallons of e85 mixed in with a full tank of pump gas? Your input will be greatly appreicated, thank you!

[Longboarder]

Hey Nick bring your M3 to NoFlyZone in April. I'll run pump 91 with 2.5 gallons of e85 (e25 mix) and you run MS109 and lets see what happens.

[BPMSport]

More octane is not always better. There's a point of diminished returns.

[kawasaki00]

Between your 3 options I would run straight 100. The motorsport 101 is the easiest option but you could always mix down the 109. If money is not a object you will be better off staying away from e85. Remember though if you mix down 109 with pump 93 to 101 it still will not make as much power as the pure 101

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Between your 3 options I would run straight 100. The motorsport 101 is the easiest option but you could always mix down the 109. If money is not a object you will be better off staying away from e85. Remember though if you mix down 109 with pump 93 to 101 it still will not make as much power as the pure 101

On a dyno I made more power on a full tank of 91 plus 2.5 gallons of e85, than I did with a 50/50 mix of 91 with MS109. I though it was odd. But it runs very strong with a little bit of E.

[wheelpro]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

More octane is not always better. There's a point of diminished returns.

i used 2 shot of nos octane with full tank
but really i got bad performance
and now need to change 4 oxogen sensor

[pbonsalb]

I would run the 101 since it is closest to regular gas in terms of the quantity needed and burning.

[Weyne Masters]

Octaner booster.
Stat away

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

On a dyno I made more power on a full tank of 91 plus 2.5 gallons of e85, than I did with a 50/50 mix of 91 with MS109. I though it was odd. But it runs very strong with a little bit of E.

I can see that, 109 is too much octane for the timing map and when you mix 91 in it the oxygen content is cut way down. You should try straight 101 that is oxygenated and see what it does. Thats why I said a cut down 109 is not as good as the straight 101.

[E92_Nick]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Hey Nick bring your M3 to NoFlyZone in April. I'll run pump 91 with 2.5 gallons of e85 (e25 mix) and you run MS109 and lets see what happens.

I have messed with e85 before in the past. In the M4 definitely had more gains with a blend of e85 with pump gas than straight vp101! vp 101 seems to be the safest and the most used on sc platform. BUT I will experiment on the dyno here shortly, just want the most gains however want them safely!

[E92_Nick]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

I can see that, 109 is too much octane for the timing map and when you mix 91 in it the oxygen content is cut way down. You should try straight 101 that is oxygenated and see what it does. Thats why I said a cut down 109 is not as good as the straight 101.

Thanks man, 101 seems like the most used. Will definitely try that first!

[E92_Nick]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

More octane is not always better. There's a point of diminished returns.

What can the ecu read up too octane wise? Are the parameters even big enough to read over 100oct? Whats is considered too be the ideal amount of octane?

[pbonsalb]

You are tuned for 91 or 93. Your timing may not always hit the target and more octane will help it hit the target more often, but more octane will not change the target. Only the a new tune can change the target.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

I can see that, 109 is too much octane for the timing map and when you mix 91 in it the oxygen content is cut way down. You should try straight 101 that is oxygenated and see what it does. Thats why I said a cut down 109 is not as good as the straight 101.

Ok cool thanks didn't know.

Would you think the straight 101 could improve upon the power that 91/e85 mix = E25 provides?

On my 991TTS I'm tuning it Wednesday (otherwise stock) and GIAC is telling me that I can go as low as E30 with full timing on their race map which otherwise needs straight 100+ octane or higher. If true E is unreal.

[8k4]

Adam you redline with the E85 / 91 mix? I'm babying my car keeping it below 6800 because all I got is 91 and E85 here

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by 8k4

Adam you redline with the E85 / 91 mix? I'm babying my car keeping it below 6800 because all I got is 91 and E85 here

Bro I have thousands of pulls to 8,600 rpm with my 91/e85 mix. I redline everytime I drive the car. I do track events and airstrip events with 91/e85.

Too much e85 would exceed the fuel system limit, so I make sure that I run between 2 and 2.5 gallons per tank. Our pump 91 in Cali has around e10 so that mixes to about e25.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Bro I have thousands of pulls to 8,600 rpm with my 91/e85 mix. I redline everytime I drive the car. I do track events and airstrip events with 91/e85.

Too much e85 would exceed the fuel system limit, so I make sure that I run between 2 and 2.5 gallons per tank. Our pump 91 in Cali has around e10 so that mixes to about e25.

The more likley reason for the bump in power on 2 gallons of e85 on a whole take is because you are actually running leaner on that fuel map. nothing wrong with it if the pump can keep up. I just stick to 93 personally on this setup, did the car feel a bit more live on e85 but not really worth it in my case at 77k.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

The more likley reason for the bump in power on 2 gallons of e85 on a whole take is because you are actually running leaner on that fuel map. nothing wrong with it if the pump can keep up. I just stick to 93 personally on this setup, did the car feel a bit more live on e85 but not really worth it in my case at 77k.

Totally agree. It was leaner but not bad (as measured on a dyno with a wideband). We don't get 93 here in Cali and I would run 93 instead if I had the option. There is a dramatic difference between 91 straight and then 91 blended with a little more E.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Totally agree. It was leaner but not bad (as measured on a dyno with a wideband). We don't get 93 here in Cali and I would run 93 instead if I had the option. There is a dramatic difference between 91 straight and then 91 blended with a little more E.

yeah it's amazing how much you pit up just taking off a bit of fuel. lol I actually just got a fuel pump error last night. likley the fuel pump controler but I'm going to use my warranty to have them both replaced. then maybe I will contenplate running a lil e again.

[BPMSport]

Shouldn't be running leaner with e85 after adaptations take place. A targeted lambda will be met regardless of the fuel type. Putting e85 in just means that the fuel trims will be higher to reach the target.

[LangRacingDevelopment]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Shouldn't be running leaner with e85 after adaptations take place. A targeted lambda will be met regardless of the fuel type. Putting e85 in just means that the fuel trims will be higher to reach the target.

Whatever fuel you use, have someone who has a proven track record (like Mike) do a tune for you. Then stick to that fuel; you'd be surprised how much of a change in ideal timing and fuel use you will see from different fuels. Good tuners can be more aggressive with timing if they know the customer will be consistent with the fuel their using. Otherwise they have to retard timing and knock thresholds lower to be safe.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Shouldn't be running leaner with e85 after adaptations take place. A targeted lambda will be met regardless of the fuel type. Putting e85 in just means that the fuel trims will be higher to reach the target.

agreed if the car that is doing it has a healthy pump. It's still just a risk with the fuel system already being closer to it's limit on the a 650kit. Has anyone had any success with a after market pump like a a walbo 450 e85 pump? With e9x sysem altering voltage to the pump to get more out of them I wonder how the pump would react to it. I know my Z I had to bypass my fuel pump module to prevent the pump from burning up the controller.