So long "AMG Sport" nomenclature

[dkhm3]

ridiculous. bad move.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

Yes, very strange indeed.

They didn't coexist in the US - the C400 was replaced after one model year. Given that the C450/C43 essentially have the same engine as the C400, just with a bit more boost, you'd think they would have gotten this all sorted when the new body came out just last year...

ALL luxury car naming schemes are extremely difficult to follow.

BMW: Even-numbered models are coupes, except the Gran Coupes which are sedans... "X5 xdrive35i"... GT is a wagonoid thing... need I say more?

Infiniti: Recently changed to all Qs and QXs, and very little of it makes sense.

Acura: A mess of letters when the old names were so great and well-recognized.

Lincoln: I can't keep straight all the MK_ models, and now they have a Continental... step in the right direction, but it would be nice if they all went to actual names.


I can't keep these names straight and I'm obsessed with cars - imagine how confused a potential buyer must be! Only Audi and Lexus seem to still make a decent amount of sense.

i believe lexus just changed their naming as well.

IS200t, IS300, IS350 = sedan (i'm not sure what the "t" is yet but i haven't looked either)

RC200t, RC300, RC350 = coupe

all of the above can add an F-Sport package making 12 models just for the basics.

i think there's a new NX with all of the above naming. there's a ton of models that i can't keep up with anymore. i'll likely buy the wife an rc350 and wash my hands of them.

[cenix]

Money. All about money. Now poseurs extraordinaire can all be cruising in M's, F's, V's, and any other letters under the sun for less.

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Ok, my mistake, I didn't realize that the C400 was now gone. Initially the C450 AMG was generally thought to be an addition to the lineup. Did the two (C400 and C450) ever coexist in the US? Is the C400 still sold elsewhere?

Anyway, yeah, that's a mess. Plus, the new M256 inline six is coming soon and who knows what new badging that may bring.

Edit: Just noticed there is no C450 AMG 4MATIC listed on the mbusa.com site either. What the hell happened? That was to be a big selling point for the car.

Both the C400 and C450 are available in Europe at least.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

Yes, very strange indeed.

They didn't coexist in the US - the C400 was replaced after one model year. Given that the C450/C43 essentially have the same engine as the C400, just with a bit more boost, you'd think they would have gotten this all sorted when the new body came out just last year...

ALL luxury car naming schemes are extremely difficult to follow.

BMW: Even-numbered models are coupes, except the Gran Coupes which are sedans... "X5 xdrive35i"... GT is a wagonoid thing... need I say more?

Not really. It's pretty straight forward to me. Odd numbers are sedans with four doors, even are coupes and five door hatchbacks. The higher the number, the more expensive and larger it will be.

Infiniti: Recently changed to all Qs and QXs, and very little of it makes sense.

Q is a car, QX is an SUV. No different than Audi (A are cars, Q are used for SUVs). Again, the higher the number, the more expensive the car is.

Acura: A mess of letters when the old names were so great and well-recognized.

Yeah there's really no way to easily tell where in the product portfolio their cars fall by just hearing the name...the same problem they had when they had normal names.

Lincoln: I can't keep straight all the MK_ models, and now they have a Continental... step in the right direction, but it would be nice if they all went to actual names.

Can't really comment on this one. Sometimes I forget Lincoln exists.

I can't keep these names straight and I'm obsessed with cars - imagine how confused a potential buyer must be! Only Audi and Lexus seem to still make a decent amount of sense.

I don't see how Audi and Lexus's naming scheme is any different than BMW. In fact, Audi's naming scheme and the rationale behind it is identical to Infiniti's, which is no coincidence, the same guy developed the naming schemes for both.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by metrickid

Both the C400 and C450 are available in Europe at least.

Yeah, I Googled it and noticed that. C250 is still a thing over seas too - as well as a bunch of others.

I guess Mercedes USA never really wanted the C400 to be the car for our market, but the C450 wasn't ready at launch, so they had to start with something. They could have simply called it the C450 here from the get-go, but then people would have still been pissed - maybe even more so - that the second year model got more power.

I wonder if Mercedes will also revive the *55 AMG name for some non-AMG-proper V8 models. Soon, they should be replacing the 4.7L M278 with the 4.0L M176. I suppose we might see the name change from *550 then, if its going to happen. Of course, non-AMG-proper V8 models are slowly disappearing from their lineup altogether, so maybe they won't need to worry about it.

[BimmerRookie]

Originally Posted by gtron

i believe lexus just changed their naming as well.

IS200t, IS300, IS350 = sedan (i'm not sure what the "t" is yet but i haven't looked either)

RC200t, RC300, RC350 = coupe

all of the above can add an F-Sport package making 12 models just for the basics.

i think there's a new NX with all of the above naming. there's a ton of models that i can't keep up with anymore. i'll likely buy the wife an rc350 and wash my hands of them.

t= turbo.

The 200t obviously has a separate engine from the others. But what's odd is that the 300 & 350 have the same engine, except the 300's engine is detuned. Lexus has essentially created the same car for three different models (respectively for the IS and RC), offer 3 different engine spec, but have the same interiors/ options.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by BimmerRookie

t= turbo.

The 200t obviously has a separate engine from the others. But what's odd is that the 300 & 350 have the same engine, except the 300's engine is detuned. Lexus has essentially created the same car for three different models (respectively for the IS and RC), offer 3 different engine spec, but have the same interiors/ options.

like 328, 335, and m3?

[BimmerRookie]

Originally Posted by gtron

like 328, 335, and m3?

I'm not too familiar with the newer power plants, but I know that the engine in the 300/350 is literally the exact same. I think in the BMW's some components may be different? Somebody chime in here hahaha

[gtron]

Originally Posted by BimmerRookie

I'm not too familiar with the newer power plants, but I know that the engine in the 300/350 is literally the exact same. I think in the BMW's some components may be different? Somebody chime in here hahaha

that reminds me - i remember reading that the porsche 981S has the same engine as the 991 but detuned via ecu because they didn't want it to best it or something... and sales of course.

[MKSixer]

It has finally come to what a non-enthusiast friend always chides me about when we are discussing cars:

'It's a Mercedes numbers letters blah blah blah...'

Cheers-mk

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Not quite the same based on what I read in that article. This vehicle seems to be considered an outright AMG, albeit a less powerful one but it gets full graduation diploma from the AMG academy. Now the M235 was never an actual ///M product.

That is not how I read it. All AMG Sport models are simply getting the 43 badge. They will remain with the same equipment, so not an outright AMG. While the full treatment AMG models will continue with the 63 badge. So in a sense it is just like the M235i getting the M badge, or in Audi's case the S and RS models.

With that said I can see in the future the 43 and 63 models getting more parts that differentiate them further. For example the new C63 Coupe getting all new body work, it will share only the doors, roof, trunk lid.

Feels like the same uproar when BMW started putting the M badge on the rear of cars like the M135i, M235i, M550d, X5 M50d.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Not really. It's pretty straight forward to me. Odd numbers are sedans with four doors, even are coupes and five door hatchbacks. The higher the number, the more expensive and larger it will be.

Except the nice looking even numbered 4-door?

[VTECaddict]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

That is not how I read it. All AMG Sport models are simply getting the 43 badge. They will remain with the same equipment, so not an outright AMG. While the full treatment AMG models will continue with the 63 badge. So in a sense it is just like the M235i getting the M badge, or in Audi's case the S and RS models.

With that said I can see in the future the 43 and 63 models getting more parts that differentiate them further. For example the new C63 Coupe getting all new body work, it will share only the doors, roof, trunk lid.

Feels like the same uproar when BMW started putting the M badge on the rear of cars like the M135i, M235i, M550d, X5 M50d.

Kind of the same idea, but I think MB is worse since it follows the exact naming scheme as the "real" AMG models. If you're not up on the news, you would assume a C43 AMG is every bit of an AMG as the C63 AMG, just with a smaller engine. At least "C450 AMG Sport" gives a clearer separation and is currently badged as "C450" with a "4-matic" badge on the other side. The name change would make it badged as a "C43 AMG" just like the "C63 AMG"

It would be like BMW having both the M235i and M2 both badged as M2 on the trunk.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Except the nice looking even numbered 4-door?

My quote:

Not really. It's pretty straight forward to me. Odd numbers are sedans with four doors, even are coupes and five door hatchbacks. The higher the number, the more expensive and larger it will be.

Emphasis mine.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

My quote:

Emphasis mine.

Except the 3GT and 5GT are both five door hatches and the 6GC has a conventional trunk.

[pokerface]

They probably realized that they could command a larger premium if they marketed it as "pure" AMG models instead of what is visibly "AMG-lite"

Whether or not a massaged, mainstream 3.0 TT V6 qualifies for a two digit AMG nomenclature is up for debate.

Maybe it's marketing incompetence?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Except the 3GT and 5GT are both five door hatches and the 6GC has a conventional trunk.

Dammit forgot those two atrocities even existed.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Dammit forgot those two atrocities even existed.

Saw a brown 5GT yesterday. Appropriate color for that turd.

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Not really. It's pretty straight forward to me. Odd numbers are sedans with four doors, even are coupes and five door hatchbacks. The higher the number, the more expensive and larger it will be.

If 2/4/6 is supposed to be a coupe already, then how is it not confusing that a 2/4/6 Gran COUPE turns it into a sedan (6-series) OR 5-door hatch (4-series)? Similarly, the Gran Turismo or GT is a lumpen 5-door wagon-thing, while "GT" is commonly known as a large 2-door coupe. It makes no sense. There's even a 4-series GT!! What is that, a 3-series made into a 4-series by making it sleeker and lower, then made taller and blockier again? Why??? And don't get me started on "xDrive35i" which is just hopelessly clunky and requires explaining.

I assure you, if you did a poll of the general public, 98% would not understand BMW's model line without 5 minutes of explanation.

Q is a car, QX is an SUV. No different than Audi (A are cars, Q are used for SUVs). Again, the higher the number, the more expensive the car is.

It is logical in that basic sense, but I think there are two key differences:

1. When Audi switched to new alphanumeric model names, they held off until new generations to change the name. The first A4 was an all-new model, and same with the A1/2/3/5/6/7/8. Whereas Infiniti just decided, "On X day, G25 and G37 will now be Q50, the last-generation G37 sedan that we still sell will be the Q40, this FX35 and FX50 SUV will be the QX70..."

2. The names are too similar to the old names. With FX50, the model was signified by the letter (admittedly confusing), and the number represented engine size (somewhat truthfully). Then one day, it became known as the QX70, where QX simply means it's an SUV and 70 signifies its place in the hierarchy. The number is similar but changed completely in what it designates, which is confusing. That would be like BMW deciding that the first number tells the engine size/output and the last two are how expensive it is. For the exact same car. Totally confusing.


Yeah there's really no way to easily tell where in the product portfolio their cars fall by just hearing the name...the same problem they had when they had normal names.
At least those conjure an image, and are easier to remember when every other competitor is using some form of letters and numbers, which hardly make sense on their own let alone amongst other brands.

I don't see how Audi and Lexus's naming scheme is any different than BMW. In fact, Audi's naming scheme and the rationale behind it is identical to Infiniti's, which is no coincidence, the same guy developed the naming schemes for both.
Audi and Lexus don't have Gran Coupes and GTs muddying the waters. IS/LS/GS = Sedan and RC/LC = Coupe. Their names match up with engine sizes more often (though not always, as in the case with the IS300) - IS200t is a 2.0L turbo, IS350 is a 3.5L V6, whereas BMW's rarely match up anymore (only one that does I think is the 320i... ONE model). Audi keeps it much simpler. Single letter and single number. In the U.S., typically only one bodystyle per model - A3 sedan, A4 sedan (and allroad wagon), A5 coupe, A6 sedan, A7 low-slung hatch, A8 sedan, R8 supercar, Qs are all SUVs. Far easier to understand than BMW. I really have no problem with the Audi scheme (other than calling their supercharged V6 a "3.0T"

Originally Posted by gtron

i believe lexus just changed their naming as well.

IS200t, IS300, IS350 = sedan (i'm not sure what the "t" is yet but i haven't looked either)

RC200t, RC300, RC350 = coupe

all of the above can add an F-Sport package making 12 models just for the basics.

i think there's a new NX with all of the above naming. there's a ton of models that i can't keep up with anymore. i'll likely buy the wife an rc350 and wash my hands of them.

As mentioned above, most of Lexus's actually make sense to me. The only real problems are the letters don't follow a hierarchy (there's a huge difference between an LX and an NX) and the IS300 isn't a 3.0L. All in all, not terrible. At least the LS/ES/IS and RX/LX have been around long enough where many people already know what they are.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

It would be like BMW having both the M235i and M2 both badged as M2 on the trunk.

That's it, yes.

Or if, in order to distinguish the two, they gave the real M2 a new name - say M25 and the "pseudo M2" a different name such as M22.

It may be tempting to call this all hair splitting. But the fact of the matter is that the two digit code and three digit code is what instantly made the non-AMG distinguishable from the real AMG - whether or not the AMG brand name was present in a given context or not.

In the end, few care about the name as long as the product delivers. But the convergence of names now opens the door to some sneaky de-contenting of what were traditional AMG product features. This strategy wreaks of a longer term opportunity to take advantage of brand perception by increasing per-unit revenue without having to deliver as competitive of a product as in the past. Great for profitability if it can be sustained. But at the same time, the enthusiasts who bought the product for more than just the badge on the car will lose.

[Tattedtwice]

Maybe I'm biased since I absolutely hate m-b, but I don't think they get enough flak for their retarded naming decisions. The auto world imploded when Infiniti changed up, but hardly a peep when m-b does the same thing, even though their changes are far more idiotic and confusing.

The suvs are all renamed and I doubt even the sales people can keep them straight. The little ugly roadster thing changed, the c lineup changed, the coupes changed, they are all over the place. Good thing I'd never ever ever never buy one, or I'd have to do some research to find out its name.....and even then, it would likely change not long after. But hey, all that's fine and dandy, since its m-b...