M3 sedan relative to E90 facelift?

[errant]

ok with the announcement that the E90 in base form is due for a facelift/spec refresh in Sept next year, what i've recently been wondering is whether the E90 M3 (supposedly out 1H'08) will initially be borrowing parts such as the rear lights from the current E90, only to be refreshed shortly after when the entire E90 range is refreshed?

i know that the E90 M3 front is the same as the coupe's, but what interests me are the rear lights. The E90 redesign seems to be focusing on the rear lights as part of the facelift, but it doesn't seem to make sense that the E90 M3 will sell for such a short period (1H'08 to 2H'08) using the current E90 rear design when initially launched.

Point is I'm aiming for the sedan, but wondering whether it's worth waiting till end of next year for the E90 refresh in general (and if the E90 M3 follows suit), or grab it the moment it comes out (with M-DCT of course).

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by errant

ok with the announcement that the E90 in base form is due for a facelift/spec refresh in Sept next year, what i've recently been wondering is whether the E90 M3 (supposedly out 1H'08) will initially be borrowing parts such as the rear lights from the current E90, only to be refreshed shortly after when the entire E90 range is refreshed?

i know that the E90 M3 front is the same as the coupe's, but what interests me are the rear lights. The E90 redesign seems to be focusing on the rear lights as part of the facelift, but it doesn't seem to make sense that the E90 M3 will sell for such a short period (1H'08 to 2H'08) using the current E90 rear design when initially launched.

Point is I'm aiming for the sedan, but wondering whether it's worth waiting till end of next year for the E90 refresh in general (and if the E90 M3 follows suit), or grab it the moment it comes out (with M-DCT of course).

The rear lights look the same bro.

[errant]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The rear lights look the same bro.

Actually no- if you look at the spyshots of the upcoming facelifted E90 (due Sept '08) over at e90post, you can see lots of masking tape over the rear lights- BMW IS doing something about the much complained rear lights in the upcoming E90 facelift.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by errant

Actually no- if you look at the spyshots of the upcoming facelifted E90 (due Sept '08) over at bimmerpost, you can see lots of masking tape over the rear lights- BMW IS doing something about the much complained rear lights in the upcoming E90 facelift.

I've seen the masked pictures, and I haven't noticed anything different from my current rear lights. Post the picture and point out where you see an alteration.

[errant]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I've seen the masked pictures, and I haven't noticed anything different from my current rear lights. Post the picture and point out where you see an alteration.

You could be right, but in this pic it shows the rear lights all masked up on this regular upcoming E90. if BMW wasn't doing anything about the rear lights, it wouldn't bother hiding it right?

I'm thinking elongated light clusters to allow for longer LED strips, similar to the E92, new X5, etc.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by errant

You could be right, but in this pic it shows the rear lights all masked up on this regular upcoming E90. if BMW wasn't doing anything about the rear lights, it wouldn't bother hiding it right?

I'm thinking elongated light clusters to allow for longer LED strips, similar to the E92, new X5, etc.

Not necessarily. They generally mask the front/rear aspects of the car to some degree to obscure it's identity. The facelift is apparent in the front of the car, but not the rear. I believe the dimensions to be the same.

[mkoesel]

I think I am leaning that way too Sedan Clan - there will be no siginificant change to the rear. Much like the recent 5 series refresh; I don't think they changed the lights there either.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think I am leaning that way too Sedan Clan - there will be no siginificant change to the rear. Much like the recent 5 series refresh; I don't think they changed the lights there either.

Werd! The only 5-series update was the LED, but the dimensions were the same. Even w/ the E46 update (...bulb to LED), the dimensions were the same, and the upgrade was plug-n-play (...and an ECU reset to clear the codes).

[errant]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think I am leaning that way too Sedan Clan - there will be no siginificant change to the rear. Much like the recent 5 series refresh; I don't think they changed the lights there either.

they didn't change the shape of the cluster housing itself for the facelifted 5 series, but introduced 5 LED strips inside the assembly. When the lights are turned on in a facelifted E60, you can tell straightaway. BMW seems to be increasingly using LED strips as key design elements, as opposed to the weedy LEDs on the original E90 rear lamp cluster.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by errant

they didn't change the shape of the cluster housing itself for the facelifted 5 series, but introduced 5 LED strips inside the assembly.

Yep. So probably they won't put "elongated" lights (as you pondered above) on the E90 either since theat would mean changing the shape of the cluster housing and thus changing the sheetmetal also. Too costly, IMHO.

Can they still do LED strips in the space of the current lights? Dunno. I guess we will find out. But even if they do, and you buy an early M3 sedan, you'll still very likely be able to update to the new lights once the facelifted E90 comes out. A pain, yes, but then it will all be worth it to have the car some six months earlier than you would have otherwise.

[errant]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yep. So probably they won't put "elongated" lights (as you pondered above) on the E90 either since theat would mean changing the shape of the cluster housing and thus changing the sheetmetal also. Too costly, IMHO.

Can they still do LED strips in the space of the current lights? Dunno. I guess we will find out. But even if they do, and you buy an early M3 sedan, you'll still very likely be able to update to the new lights once the facelifted E90 comes out. A pain, yes, but then it will all be worth it to have the car some six months earlier than you would have otherwise.

This is great constructive feedback, thanks guys! One observation, it seems that they are changing the sheetmetal on the facelifted E90 in the front anyway? So it won't add much more to cost to revise the rear a little as well, given that feedback so far hasn't been too positive about the E90 rear.

All speculation now, but it's nice to have an end point in sight- and delivery in 1Q'08 or 4Q'08 makes a world of a difference!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by errant

This is great constructive feedback, thanks guys!

No prob. Great topic actually - I think there's a lot of people wondering this same thing.

One observation, it seems that they are changing the sheetmetal on the facelifted E90 in the front anyway? So it won't add much more to cost to revise the rear a little as well, given that feedback so far hasn't been too positive about the E90 rear.

A good point. Although, not all feedback about the E90 rear is bad. Many people (including myself) like it, some of us even more than the coupe. It seems to me the E60 rear took a lot more heat in general, though not as much as the front, and they didn't end up changing the sheetmetal there (for both front and back).