Won ebay auction at 60K for E90 M3, BMW of Lincoln refusing to honor

[TestSubjekt]

Props to the staff for banning the troll. It makes reading the thread alot more soothing.

I think I'm going to post a thread with a link at my site (see signature). I'll play up the angle of the power of the internet with the apparent happy ending.

Originally Posted by Laszlo

One member pointed out after some very clever sleuthing, that is be possible that the dealership was/is shill bidding against their own eBay auctions. It would be interesting to see if this has been going on for a while and eBay never caught onto the fact that his Powerseller was in fact committing fraud for a while now... and it is possible, since eBay is too big to handle the endless fraud that happens on that service each and everyday.

This is what I'd like to see pursued and what eBay's answer or investigation concludes.

Although this is really about Dooma and his M3, this situation, has opened up a very deep Pandora’s box.

I just want to keep bringing this point back up so Dooma notices and hopefully forwards the info to eBay. There were also alot of great suggestions from people about the shady business practices by the dealer that could still be followed up on even after Dooma gets his wheels.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by bodies_from_vent

WOW this is fucking stupid, i mean big Deal the Dealer made a mistake, let it go and get a different Car,

why go threw all this bullshit? just cough up another fucking 6 grand and get a different one.

im going to side on the dealerships side, because a mistake is a mistake and thats that end of story


no ED you dont understand i was away in dallas and they hired a nudest to spam my forum and by the time i got back it was to late

i was always nice to those guys and i just kindly asked them to leave i said, it's just not working out we have to go our differnet ways

sorry bud, that just doesn't fly and make sense. its easy to say that until you've been through it.

it would be enforceable... the courts can decide that seller offering item for sale is akin to a "signature", and the buyer's amount his/her "signature" for the legally binding contract. physical signatures would be more or less a formality to end deal. the buyer by providing dates/times would also show earnest to securing financing to complete his end of the purchase.... meanwhile seller will probably have nothing to show they were earnest.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by mooseman

I'm saying that not only do I believe its wrong to charge more than market value, but I also practiced it. Since I was in charge of the bidding, we bid market value, not the amount we could have procured the contract for. Being an immoral businessman in trade for a bigger paycheck wasn't and isn't worth it, IMHO.

i don't think car dealerships would give refunds for transactions way over market value either. besides, in this economy, where ppl can't pay for new homes or pay to maintain ownership of just bought homes, its obvious tertiary expenses such as car markets are hit hard. with the current market state, i don't alot of ppl have the extra money to buy a car (kudos to you if you have the means though), and vehicles values go down, so its not surprising to see an m3 at that price.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by ArtPE

according to US law the deal is not consumated nor the contract entered into until the SELLER accepts the deal, period...
and even then it's not a 'done deal'

that's why why both parties sign the contract...up to that point it's a negotiation and either party may back out...ebay is not the legal definition of an 'auction'...

between that and the 'mistake' defense, he's got a rough road to hoe...
the dealer will never be forced in court to sell, but he may choose to compromise to avoid the bad PR...

well, if the court decides, the seller might be force to sign a contract for this deal. kinda like class-action lawsuits...a company might be called to pay X amount of millions, they'll deny any, but wind up paying a bit. here, i'd say to compromise, get that particular m3 at $60k, or another 08 m3.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by ArtPE

there has been 10's of 1000's of cases of buyers and/or sellers backing out of ebay deals in the US...

but not one has been in court, little own adjudicated in favor of the plaintiff....

a contract must be signed...and counter signed...and usually notorized....
electronic signatures have not been court tested...
there's multiple reasons they have you sign a credit card:
1 ID
2 agreement to their terms...

true, they might be for smaller items, and dont attract negative publicity for ebay as a "fraud-free" place to transact.

[AwesomeM3]

After 900+ posts, I'm sure it's all been said. With that said, eBay has strict policies regarding their auctions, and as the winning bidder of a legitimate auction, you did nothing wrong. Good luck, and go get 'em!

[3aficionado]

Anyone that has bought recently from Lincoln BMW should offer their paperwork copies to the OP so he can use them as an example of what he SHOULD be receiving. The dealer is already trying to add additional conditions so its a safe bet the paperwork will be special for the OP which is why he needs a contract lawyer to review. The dealer has already proven they cannot be trusted by trying to back out so I wouldn't put it past them slipping some extra terms in the paperwork.

Under NO circumstances should he sign any additional conditions beyond what was posted on the eBay auction.

At this point he should keep his head down and work through the details with the dealership. But part of me wants to see a group of lawyers donate their time so he can walk in with a whole legal team followed by a news camera crew. Then we can all watch the dealers expression when he says he is there for his car.

I noticed a lot of people from Lincoln, Nebraska posting. Some people have become fanatical about this situation. I wonder if he will have a supporting crowd when he picks the car up.

What are the odds of the dealer offering free floormats?

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by ArtPE

you have to prove it was not a mistake...very difficult to prove...

2 cars were recently in the news:
elvis's MB
dukes of hazzard

both were bid on with huge numbers...
both buyers backed out...it happens all the time...
because there is no contract...
you can never prove who did what...
a suit was file re: the elvis car, and is going no where...the filer knows this and has requested a token payment to withdraw...the purchaser refuses saying it was a mistake...

the dukes car, only negative feedback...no lawsuit

this is a non-starter, especially for $6k, the above cars were 10,000's of $...

I hope they make the OP a deal, it sounds like they are trying to, it's his only chance...

i think ultimately those auctions didn't pan out was obvious hype, shill bidding, and after investigation, winner obviously didn't have financial means to complete...otherwise ebay would have stepped in and enforced it. here, is a legit case however.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by ArtPE

the seller contends he made the offer in error, he never accepted the flawed offer...

it'll take a court to determine:
was there a contract
was there a mistake
is it enforceable
what are the damages

and probably much more to determine
juristiction
etc.

all for 6k$ ?

his best bet is the that the dealer chooses to negotiate
it will cost more to litigate, and the only winners will be the lawyers

i'd take a hard line on this....negotiate ?? so Lie-nancers (financers) can play with numbers to make them cover the gap and take a slightly lower loss ? i'd stand firm on the $60k. what good reason should you pay more ?

(when you buy a used/new car, get dealership to itemize everything, and dispute any charges you dont understand or agree with).

sometimes winning costs money, but if at the end, you still get the car at your price (despite paying extra to fight for it), and the dealership lives with the shame....it'd be worth it i'd say.

[Anonymous Dissent]

Originally Posted by dooma350

"No phone calls, threats, emails or fake sales calls."

Only if you get pics of you smiling in front of your M3. And a pic of you dry humping it.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by Laszlo

Poor guy. He's probably getting all sorts of horrible, threatening e-mails from people who have picked up on this viral story. Come tomorrow he won’t even have a job anymore. I had a great Easter, did you?

Just reading through the endless and tasteless hate-posts today is making my stomach turn. It's amazing at how mean and primitive some people can be when they are hiding behind a keyboard. It really shows how humans haven’t evolved much since the invention of fire. Its disgusting this is happening over an M3.

I made the terrible mistake of not knowing eBay’s rules completely and look at how I was treated. I love this Web site and feel good about participating in debates… but I never realized at how down-right cruel some of you are. And poor Moose for having an independent opinion… He seems to be an extremely intelligent and one much grounded human being… but he’s being crucified on this wonderful Easter Sunday afternoon!

The power of the Internet sure is a good thing, huh! And the power of Karma.

as a member who just signed up hours ago, don't feel bad. while i agree with buyer and not seller, i try to keep it civil. other members haven't held their tongue, but when they take a step back, they prob have a bit of remorse for their tone. you;re doing your part by living and learning, so don't sweat it. just chaulk it up to heated tension.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yep - but not true for past auctions. Check it out (and you'll need an EBay ID to see this):

Past Husker EBay Auctions

In particular, here's one that fits the same patterns at the OP's M3 auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lexus...QQcmdZViewItem

"LOWEST ON EBAY" and no reserve. These guys knew *exactly* what they were doing.

they probably got the "lowest on ebay" right. if they wanted it at market value, they shouldn't have put it on ebay...duh

[Shqiptar]

Congrads Dooma! Great to hear that you won in the end. I actually had to log in at school to check if any updates came in this morning.lol

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by ideliver

Copied from the listing. More reasons why the dealer is wrong.

This icon next to the members user ID recognizes them as a qualified PowerSeller. You can feel assured that your transaction will go smoothly and that you are dealing with one who has consistently met the requirements established by eBay.

Terms
Notice to Bidders:
WE WILL NOT SELL ANY NEW BMW OR MERCEDES-BENZ VEHICLE TO ANYONE NEEDING THE VEHICLE EXPORTED OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES. IF YOU DO NOT LIVE IN THE U.S.A. PLEASE DO NOT PURCHASE THIS VEHICLE. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.
ALL OF OUR PREOWNED INVENTORY IS FOR SALE WORLDWIDE!

All vehicles at The Husker Auto Group are for sale locally. We reserve the right to end the auction early due to a local sale.

that may be true, but since they already entered a legally binding contract, they have to show earnest effort to deal, which they've been stalling on. should they sleeze it out and sell this vehicle, the purchase date would've been *PRIOR* to auction end date. there's no reason for them not to honor the contract, as stipulated by rules. either they honor the legal contract, or lose their license to sell and make up the loss.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by DailyYeah

Honestly, now that I come to think of it. Why are we all mad here? Are we all angry because this guy didn't get a chance to buy a $60,000 dollar M3? Now he has to pay more; what an outrage.

dude, i think its the principle. it could very well be YOU next time being taken advantage of. it could be a simple, lame attempt at fleecing, or you could be the victim of a more serious situation. if we don't have our principles, what do we have !?!?

lol

[hellrotm]

Congrats Ken!!!!

Dealer will still make money off this deal, don't know why they were so hard on you. They made a mistake and should own up.

[TahBOSS]

e-mazing thread. Congratz on owning the stealership, it is amazing what the internet can do now a days..

[azurepalm]

Good luck with your case. That's a very nice looking car.

[89dub]

Originally Posted by jestermx6

i mostly just want to shake dooma's hand now if he comes into town to pick this car up

+1 if you want a photographer to capture th glorious moment, ken, hit me up... onemanzu_@hotmial.com

[omaham3]

To all,

I purchased my 2008 m3 at bmw of lincoln, so I feel that I must provide a unique point of view that I would like to share. I will keep it short and only to 3 thoughts.

To begin, I have had a purely business relationship with the Catania family on many occasions. The family comes from a hard working class of people. I have represented the family in a number of real estate dealings and know first hand that the family is a down to earth group of people. Fil's (the gm's) father always made sure that I was paid for my efforts and never taken advantage of, though some other real estate folks would like to backdoor most clients. With this, I know that Mr. Catania and his sons know the difference between right and wrong even when the lines are sometimes unclear at best. I personally respect the family very much. So the matter of this all being a big mistake, I hope that is the case and it can be worked through.

Secondly, I understand most people on this board have very little regard for car dealerships and car sales people in general. Our society has painted them both in a negative light. I can only hope that as many people who read and make these posts that at least as many stand up and tell their stories of the positive experiences. Today's car dealers are spending more and more to attract buyers with a product that has an ever greater shrinking margin. One does not need to be an insider to witness this!

Thirdly, The team of people at bwm of lincoln treated me with the greatest amount of respect. I felt like I was a being well treated throughout the purchase process. I know that I was buying a car at the high end of the market, but I believe this group would do the same for the average chevy buyer. The bmw manager went above and beyond my expectation. Both I and they knew that outside their doors, I was just a regular guy, but inside, I was a special buyer. I say this because I witnessed how another buyer was being treated while I was waiting for the my car to be ready. The staff was making sure this man was being made special also.

So, I hope all turns out for the best tomorrow for both parties. Stories like these only take away from the spirit of the brand and the aura of the car.

[AML]

Originally Posted by ganjadude

please explaIN how what i did will hurt anyone. It seems that alot of you feel the same however i personally feel that what i did was fine.

i did not call them making threats all i did was call them, set up a car and tell them nevermind i made a mistake. i was polite to the saleman i didnt make multiple calls harassing them the ojnly thing i did was steal their time from them in the hopes of selling a car. people do this in the actual dealership all day long, i know i USED TO SELL CARS.

the reason i went this route is because i too also know that vigilante justice will only hurt his case and i would not want that to happen. again all i did was quote out a car and tell them n/m i made a mistake.

You wasted the time of a man not even related to this incident other than the fact that he works at the same place. An innocent bystander, if you will.

[jestermx6]

Originally Posted by 89dub

+1 if you want a photographer to capture th glorious moment, ken, hit me up... onemanzu_@hotmial.com

u on SCR??