M3 vs Subaru STI

[Dartanium]

Originally Posted by pepper

STI is for boys

M3 is for gentlemen

Then I would not know what I am since I daily my 20g STi and take out the sweet M3 on weekends

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by Subw00er

Mark my words. I'll NEVER own another subaru and for as long as I live will share my experience with them whenever it comes up. In some small way it makes me feel better. I've already convinced one friend to not buy a sti. FU subaru!

These companies need to stand behind their products and support the people who put food in their mouths... the customer. This is part of the reason I am with BMW now. They proactively fixed a tire issue on a 325xi with very little hassle (dealer was great) and stood behind their product - even when in reality they didnt even design the tire, they just choose it for their vehicle. I found that highly commendable and it says a lot about BMW. I've purchased two BMW's cars and two BMW motorbikes since then and will very likely buy more in the future. Oh, and besides that tire issue, I havent had so much as a niggle with any of my Beemers.

That is what seperates BMW from the pack. I live 250 miles from the nearest BMW dealer and when my engine went south on me in my old M6 they fltbedded it back to the dealer and drove a loaner car up to me. Then when it was fixed they drove it back and picked up their car. This was a complete hassle free experience.
They turned an ugly situation into locking down a long term customer.
Its all about service and support.

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by bmw.slowm3

Check these two M3 in 1/4 miles drag racing:

you're gay.

PS - LOL Bolt

[Canexican]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1961

subaru is a ugly cheap car please to compare to m3 is rediculous

Originally Posted by Groundhog

And when they modify the Subaru it voids the warrantee and they break, just like the Evo's. NVH anyone?

A well modified STI or Evo will put the beatdown on a non modified M3 just about everytime and can chew up BMW's, vettes, Porsches, Lamborgini, Ferrari, Loti...on road race courses in street car events.

The dirty little secret they don't tell you is that by the time they are done modding their cars, they've put more money into them than the would have had they just gone out and bought an M3. Poor tunes mangle headgaskets. High RPM clutch drops break the drive train. It takes a lot of energy to get them dialed in right if modified significantly.

Drag racing is one thing, but an M3 with tire mods will even the playing field on a road course very quickly. An M3 at Big Willow with 295/305 R compounds vs. JDM would be a very even match.

I certainly don't disagree with everything said, but there are some things I do definitely disagree with (in bold):

Can't say alot for STI's. I know of guys that bombed their trannys and their engines do take dumps quite frequently, Evos on the otherhand...

I beat the shit out of my daily driven Evo - have had 0 problems. Currently sitting at 62,000 miles on the stock block/turbo/cams/transmission. Bought the car for 28k in 2007 and I ran 12.86@109 w/a crap 1.9 60ft after spending $700 in modifications - not much slower than an E92 M3. I know a guy who regularly hill-climbs/road-races/autoX's his '03 Evo, has over 400 6000rpm launches on it, still on stock transmission, and is only on his second clutch.

What I've spent: 2 grand on wheels/tires (splurged on my Volks ), $700 in suspension, another $1500 in additional performance parts (in my signature). Lateral grip should be .97g or higher. With a proper dyno tune ($600) I should be putting down about 330whp on 93octane a Mustang Dyno and 380-400whp on E85. If I put in $3000 for a larger stock frame turbo, Kelford cams, injectors, and an E85 tune - I'd be in the 480whp range which is still safe on the stock block/tranny.

SO, at most, I'll have spent about 7k and have a car that would eat even a supercharged E92 for breakfast on a drag strip or road course. Sure, the doors are chintzy, the interior carbon is fake, there are lots of hard plastics, no cruise control, no heated seats - but, I don't care about all that crap. Its got a cd-player, adequate sound, a/c, and I don't have to read the manual to operate them. It's got a rally-like a 12:1 steering ratio and 2.0 turns to lock. Its got an engine that can make well over 400whp with only 2 liters. Its got 3 differentials with a manual controlled center diff setting and less than 3300lb curb weight.

All you M3 guys on your high horse seem to forget that M cars were originally pretty amenity-less and as they've gone more and more upmarket they've become bigger, heavier, and sloppier - like most cars. The only dirty little secret is that most M3 drivers nowadays won't admit it and are in denial that their cars are not God's gift to the tarmac. Most M3 drivers are not the enthusiasts that they used to be. For sheer driving pleasure (what M cars are SUPPOSED to be about), I would take an E36 over an E46 and an E46 over an E92 - purity trumps all. Sure, the luxury/performance ratio is very good and they are of high quality/engineering, but performance wise - it is possible to do much better for far less money. I guess its easier to crap all over another platform vs. admitting that your car's platform has its shortcomings.

Sorry if my rant got a bit , but I see a trend in the way the M3 community has pretty much compared the E92 to every other vehicle. I bitch because I care .

[pavlo1994]

I DONT BELIEVE U!. NO way will a sti beat a m3.

Subaru
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Sp...reza&trimid=-1

BMW
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Sp...l=M3&trimid=-1

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by Canexican

All you M3 guys on your high horse seem to forget that M cars were originally pretty amenity-less and as they've gone more and more upmarket they've become bigger, heavier, and sloppier - like most cars. The only dirty little secret is that most M3 drivers nowadays won't admit it and are in denial that their cars are not God's gift to the tarmac. Most M3 drivers are not the enthusiasts that they used to be. For sheer driving pleasure (what M cars are SUPPOSED to be about), I would take an E36 over an E46 and an E46 over an E92 - purity trumps all. Sure, the luxury/performance ratio is very good and they are of high quality/engineering, but performance wise - it is possible to do much better for far less money. I guess its easier to crap all over another platform vs. admitting that your car's platform has its shortcomings.
.

You are clueless fanboi. Go educate yourself and then muster the audacity to claim something ludicrous like that.


p.s. I do not own an M3. Only drive an old E46 330 CI ZHP. I have driven all of the M3s from E36 to E90.

[Canexican]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

You are clueless fanboi. Go educate yourself and then muster the audacity to claim something ludicrous like that.


p.s. I do not own an M3. Only drive an old E46 330 CI ZHP. I have driven all of the M3s from E36 to E90.

What is so audacious about physics? Weight kills performance. It shows up every time you take your car up to 9/10ths and beyond. Do you track your car on a regular basis and have you tracked the said M3's you've driven? I doubt it .

[Singletrack]

This thread sucks.

[powertrip]

Your previous post is rather one-sided if you ask me. Also, I'd like to point out that I have deep involvement in a shop that tunes more STI's and Evo's in a month than some others can manage in a year. I have NEVER seen a single STI tranny break...period. WRX trannies on the other hand blow 3rd gear frequently. Additionally, it's well known that the 6 speed in the MR is not the bullet proof beast that you make it out to be.

As far as your claim about M3's and their owners, it's pretty obvious that you're being quite the little fanboi .

Originally Posted by Canexican

What is so audacious about physics? Weight kills performance. It shows up every time you take your car up to 9/10ths and beyond. Do you track your car on a regular basis and have you tracked the said M3's you've driven? I doubt it .

[Optherion]

Fastest man in the world now drives a GT-R lol.

I purchased an STI about 3 years ago. Picked it up preowned. Raced it in a charity rally race. It lasted 20 minutes RIP lol. Was a great little car. Couldnt drive it everyday though.

(that is no reflection of my rally skills. I knew going into it I better get a car that I didnt plan on reselling anyways.)

[URBAN LEGEND]

To the Subi dealer for a trade in.

[Canexican]

Originally Posted by powertrip

Your previous post is rather one-sided if you ask me. Also, I'd like to point out that I have deep involvement in a shop that tunes more STI's and Evo's in a month than some others can manage in a year. I have NEVER seen a single STI tranny break...period. WRX trannies on the other hand blow 3rd gear frequently. Additionally, it's well known that the 6 speed in the MR is not the bullet proof beast that you make it out to be.

As far as your claim about M3's and their owners, it's pretty obvious that you're being quite the little fanboi .

Ok, you got me on the wrx/sti tranny issue. I sometimes forget that they are different. Make no claims to be an expert on STI's and come to think of it the guys I know that had exploding motors and trannys were WRX guys, not STI's. My bad.

Never said my tranny is a bullet proof beast, just said I have not had issues nor had to replace it and I beat on it constantly. It heats up faster than the 5 speed which does not make it ideal for repetitive road racing, but its weakness has nothing to do with holding power. There are plenty of MR's running low 11's.

And yeah, obviously I'm reaching when it comes to the how M3 owners act towards other respected performance cars:

How they feel about STI's:
"that suberu is the ugliest piece of shit on the road . i think it goes for 12grand

"if your getting rid of an M3 for a subaru its becasue you couldnt afford the payments on the M3 . nobody goes down unless unaffordable."

"STI is for boys
M3 is for gentlemen"

370Z's:
" That is what comes to my mind when considering a 370."

"I was looking at getting a 370z for the wife but after she test drove it, she didn't want it anymore. The car looks good but it drives like a Hyundai..."

CTS-V:
"If you like to take corners... you won't be happy. CTS V is in a class with M5... (which I sold for my M3)"

I am NOT the fanboi here.

[Optherion]

Originally Posted by Canexican

370Z's:[/I]
" That is what comes to my mind when considering a 370."

"I was looking at getting a 370z for the wife but after she test drove it, she didn't want it anymore. The car looks good but it drives like a Hyundai..."

I fail to see that one. To each his own.

I hate the looks, the interior was cramped, and the updates to the interior looks so... i cant find words for it but the old z was more retro and edgy.

The auto blip on a manual trans is amazing, and the amount of power it has is a great improvement. Im considering getting one because I need to get some track hours logged. Also as far as the way it drives. Stig tied the 370z time around the track with the 911 gt3. Not bad.

[powertrip]

True, there are definitely some out there with a superiority complex. Me personally, if my M was gone tomorrow I'd probably pick up an Evo X and call it a day . Amazing performance for such little $$$...

Originally Posted by Canexican

Ok, you got me on the wrx/sti tranny issue. I sometimes forget that they are different. Make no claims to be an expert on STI's and come to think of it the guys I know that had exploding motors and trannys were WRX guys, not STI's. My bad.

Never said my tranny is a bullet proof beast, just said I have not had issues nor had to replace it and I beat on it constantly. It heats up faster than the 5 speed which does not make it ideal for repetitive road racing, but its weakness has nothing to do with holding power. There are plenty of MR's running low 11's.

And yeah, obviously I'm reaching when it comes to the how M3 owners act towards other respected performance cars:

How they feel about STI's:
"that suberu is the ugliest piece of shit on the road . i think it goes for 12grand

"if your getting rid of an M3 for a subaru its becasue you couldnt afford the payments on the M3 . nobody goes down unless unaffordable."

"STI is for boys
M3 is for gentlemen"

370Z's:
" That is what comes to my mind when considering a 370."

"I was looking at getting a 370z for the wife but after she test drove it, she didn't want it anymore. The car looks good but it drives like a Hyundai..."

CTS-V:
"If you like to take corners... you won't be happy. CTS V is in a class with M5... (which I sold for my M3)"

I am NOT the fanboi here.

[Canexican]

Originally Posted by powertrip

True, there are definitely some out there with a superiority complex. Me personally, if my M was gone tomorrow I'd probably pick up an Evo X and call it a day . Amazing performance for such little $$$...

If I were you I'd be pretty happy with my M3, but I'd also like to drive a modded X. I drove a stock one when it first came out and it felt like a slug compared to my tuned IX. Had no gripes about the level of grip though - that thing was unflappable in the twisties. Still felt kinda big, bulky, and not as communicative as mine.

To Optherion: I want your life man. I hope one day I can justify buying a $25k car for a charity rally and be contented with totaling it. Not to mention, already owning and selling the baddest Vette and GTR ever. Christ, I can barely make my Evo's payment. Hell, you currently own two cars i'll probably never even see on the road, haha.

[Subw00er]

Canexican, there are three sets of keys in front of you. STI, EVO and M3. Which one do you grab?

Conversation over. Have a good day! Hehe

[Canexican]

Originally Posted by Subw00er

Canexican, there are three sets of keys in front of you. STI, EVO and M3. Which one do you grab?

Conversation over. Have a good day! Hehe

Haha, well played. Of course the M3. There is no comparison in out-of-the-box performance. Honestly though, I'd take a well-modified Evo over an M3 any day. STI's...I respect them, but I wouldn't want to own one. I'd like to keep my Evo as my winter warrior/track slut - buy a c6 z06 as the summer ride. I'm a good ways away from that goal though. Knowing me though, I'll probably change my future vehicle goal when I wake up in the morning.

[Nawaaz]

All these recent posts make me miss my Evo IX MR that I gave up to get into my M3. No regrets on my part, but I do miss it.

Wish I could've kept it alongside my M3.

[330CIZHP]

Because you are clueless that the M3 performance and handling has gone way up especially since the E36. Do you realize that? What are the basis of your M3's abilities getting "sloppier"?? Just because it weighs a couple 100 pounds more than the E36?? So has just about every car in the automotive world. So what? So has the luxury. This is not a souped up econobox car.

The weight of the M3 is still tipping the scale at only 3570 lbs (3600 lbs for the sedan) vs 3300 lbs the E36 (roughly the same as my E46 330). That is still featherweight considering ALL cars in its class tip the scale at close to 4000 lbs including IS-F, C63 and RS4.

Like I said before, you are clueless. The E36 M3 and E46 M3 could only pull stock on the skidpad 0.85 - 0.87g. Go look it up. What does the E90/E92 pull?? 0.97g on the skidpad, ran a 8:05 vs 8:22 for the E46. Has a 74 mph slalom speed. In one generation alone, the Nurburgring lap times improved by over 17 seconds. That is a huge improvement.

Maybe, you should ask the STi and Evo engineers who they consider as their role model cars in the development of the STi and Evos. Ofcourse, M3 it is. It comes straight out of the STi chief engineer's mouth in the development of the STi.

BTW, in a "driver republic" test vs European FQ400 that is way more hardcore than the US Evo, the M3 beat the FQ400 in the comparison. That speaks volumes about
how the M3 is not only the benchmark in its class, but other classes as well.

p.s. Yes I do track my 330 CI ZHP that weighs 3300 lbs (which some claim was tuned better than a stock E46 M3). Yes, an E90 M3 will kill my car in any handling test despite the weight.

Originally Posted by Canexican

What is so audacious about physics? Weight kills performance. It shows up every time you take your car up to 9/10ths and beyond. Do you track your car on a regular basis and have you tracked the said M3's you've driven? I doubt it .

[southlight]

I've read enough. Thread closed.


Best regards,
south