Carbon Build up in Cylinder Valves

jrlee53 · 09-14-2011, 09:04 AM

Went to my dealer for brake fluid maintenance and they are starting to promote a new service they have for cleaning the carbon out of the cylinders valves. They say they recommend doing it every 15k due to the ethanol in the fuel causing more carbon build up in the cylinder. Does anyone know any more information on this? I"m wondering if I should've gone ahead and done it or is there something else I can do to prevent carbon build up. I've heard a driving style of revs over 3-4k rpm, but I do mostly city driving and with cops ticket happy these days, been sticking to the speed limit. Only time I get to open her up is at the track and thats only one day out of the month.

e1000 · 09-15-2011, 06:14 PM

No carbon buildup issues on the M3, you're fine. This is more important for DI cars like the 335i.

PhillyNate · 09-15-2011, 06:20 PM

I smell horsesh!t.

swamp2 · 09-16-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyNate

I smell horsesh!t.

Yes, exactly, what are they proposing. Head removal, head disassembly? It is probably some BS fuel additive.

jrlee53 · 09-19-2011, 01:22 PM

They have some kind of new machine that goes in there and cleans out the valves, for $190. I'd never heard of this in our cars before. The DI makes sense since he said most of the ones getting trouble with this are mostly regular 3 and 5 series.

kmarei · 09-19-2011, 07:51 PM

I just use a can of sea foam every 3 months on a full tank

1sikbmr · 09-20-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyNate

I smell horsesh!t.

+1

BMRLVR · 09-20-2011, 10:10 AM

Sound just as bad as a Jiffy Lube sales pitch!

longuyen88 · 09-20-2011, 10:29 AM

sounds like seafoam lol

viperssd · 09-22-2011, 09:24 AM

With direct injection you don't have any flushing going on in the cylinders and valves, non DI cars do not have that issue

mdosu · 09-24-2011, 09:50 AM

do you drive a RS4? If no, then horsehit.

MPI_Jack · 11-11-2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDy80

They have some kind of new machine that goes in there and cleans out the valves, for $190. I'd never heard of this in our cars before. The DI makes sense since he said most of the ones getting trouble with this are mostly regular 3 and 5 series.

We use that for 335's/535's and Mini's. That's only for for heavily carbon up valves which is caused by direct injection and many other issues I can go in depth on.

You won't have that issue with you M3 because it uses port fuel injection which cleans anyways. Just put some Chevron(same as BMW's) fuel injection cleaner additive in your tank every 4th fill up.

I myself have one of these

which is a fuel injector cleaner tool.

You basically inject a mixture of fuel and a cleaner directly into your fuel rail. This proves well with older cars with semi clogged or clogged injectors. Cleans out injectors well with the right cleaner and cleans the intake ports.

WangTa · 02-14-2012, 01:26 PM

Wow - just got back from dropping off my car for service and got the same line "BMW recommends this because of "additives" to fuel. They asked for $590 - and I stupidly signed the paperwork. I just called them to tell them NOT to do it - I will be pissed if they give me the line "sorry, we're already in process". WTF!

WangTa · 02-14-2012, 01:32 PM

Great, just got the call - "sorry, we already have the car in the shop and this service is already done".

Seriously? It's been 1.5 hours since I dropped it off. I gave it to my service consultant - asking him why the F*(CK he suggested this for my M3 when its a PORT injected car with 19K miles. I also mentioned this is typically done on 335's/535's and Mini's or cars with direct injection.

He didn't say much, saying this is suggested for ALL BMWs, which I called BS. He's checking with his tech guy now and will call me back. WTF.

Any recommendations? I'm pretty pissed, both at him upselling, the fact I can't trust my service consultant, being an idiot and believing them, and the freakin' price $590 - that seems WAY higher than any other quote I've seen.

M3PO · 02-14-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WangTa

Great, just got the call - "sorry, we already have the car in the shop and this service is already done".

Seriously? It's been 1.5 hours since I dropped it off. I gave it to my service consultant - asking him why the F*(CK he suggested this for my M3 when its a PORT injected car with 19K miles. I also mentioned this is typically done on 335's/535's and Mini's or cars with direct injection.

He didn't say much, saying this is suggested for ALL BMWs, which I called BS. He's checking with his tech guy now and will call me back. WTF.

Any recommendations? I'm pretty pissed, both at him upselling, the fact I can't trust my service consultant, being an idiot and believing them, and the freakin' price $590 - that seems WAY higher than any other quote I've seen.

You got owned. It's total BS. Intake valves on port injected engines are washed as the fuel and air mixture passes over them. There's nothing to clean. I don't know what to tell you as far as getting a refund or at least a discount. Good luck.

WangTa · 02-14-2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3PO

You got owned. It's total BS. Intake valves on port injected engines are washed as the fuel and air mixture passes over them. There's nothing to clean. I don't know what to tell you as far as getting a refund or at least a discount. Good luck.

Hah, ALMOST got owned. I got a hold of my SA - basically told him this was a worthless service for my car given the type of injection and questioned why he would suggest it for my car. I also mentioned that $590 is way more than what is quoted at other shops. Long story short - I refused to pay for it, arguing that it shouldn't have been offered as its not applicable. They caved and said fine, they wouldn't charge for it.

But on another note - I'm pretty pissed that my SA would do that. I will never trust anything he suggests anymore without coming here first. Fack.

GIdriver · 02-14-2012, 06:38 PM

Glad you solved this and they admit they fudged up. That pisses me when they try to rip you off like this. Always come here if I have any doubts on what the stealer offers or plans to do with my car.

M3PO · 02-15-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WangTa

Hah, ALMOST got owned. I got a hold of my SA - basically told him this was a worthless service for my car given the type of injection and questioned why he would suggest it for my car. I also mentioned that $590 is way more than what is quoted at other shops. Long story short - I refused to pay for it, arguing that it shouldn't have been offered as its not applicable. They caved and said fine, they wouldn't charge for it.

But on another note - I'm pretty pissed that my SA would do that. I will never trust anything he suggests anymore without coming here first. Fack.

Good job sticking up for yourself! I am curious though, what is it that they actually did or claim to have done? I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't do anything at all...

Singletrack · 02-19-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WangTa

Hah, ALMOST got owned. I got a hold of my SA - basically told him this was a worthless service for my car given the type of injection and questioned why he would suggest it for my car. I also mentioned that $590 is way more than what is quoted at other shops. Long story short - I refused to pay for it, arguing that it shouldn't have been offered as its not applicable. They caved and said fine, they wouldn't charge for it.

But on another note - I'm pretty pissed that my SA would do that. I will never trust anything he suggests anymore without coming here first. Fack.

I would call BMW as well and tell them that one of their service departments is fabricating a service with their recommendation on it. That be fraud.

BimmerRob08 · 02-19-2012, 07:42 PM

Glad I read this. Good info fella's.

Morning Hawk · 02-22-2012, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLV-Engineering

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDy80

They have some kind of new machine that goes in there and cleans out the valves, for $190. I'd never heard of this in our cars before. The DI makes sense since he said most of the ones getting trouble with this are mostly regular 3 and 5 series.

We use that for 335's/535's and Mini's. That's only for for heavily carbon up valves which is caused by direct injection and many other issues I can go in depth on.

You won't have that issue with you M3 because it uses port fuel injection which cleans anyways. Just put some Chevron(same as BMW's) fuel injection cleaner additive in your tank every 4th fill up.

I myself have one of these

which is a fuel injector cleaner tool.

You basically inject a mixture of fuel and a cleaner directly into your fuel rail. This proves well with older cars with semi clogged or clogged injectors. Cleans out injectors well with the right cleaner and cleans the intake ports.

If port injection cleans the fuel injection as you say, then why add Chevron Techron every 4th fill-up?

4 tanks comes to about a 1000 miles. Doesn't that seem too frequent?
I always assumed it was something done with every oil change(?).

I used to religiously use this stuff on my old car after every oil change (3-4000 miles), but when I got to about 80,000 miles I ended up stopping because I never really felt the difference... Wasn't sure if it was really working... I wish the car would discharge sludge or Something to validate the use of the product.

MrGroup · 02-29-2012, 11:05 AM

Damn I love this forum. Took mine in today for 25K-ish service and got the fuel injector, alignment, balance upsell. Each service was 199$. Declined everything but was wondering this morning whether I should have at least gone with the fuel injector mumbo jumbo. Glad I didn't. 199$ buys some nice vino. First time taking it to this dealership and it will be the last. I truly think that the majority of employees have no idea how the cars work. Sad. I'm just hoping my baby comes back in one piece. I wonder if they even know what type of oil goes in the M3?

09-14-2011, 09:04 AM	#1
jrlee53 Captain 157 Rep 838 Posts Drives: 2010 E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Queens, NY iTrader: (0)	Carbon Build up in Cylinder Valves Went to my dealer for brake fluid maintenance and they are starting to promote a new service they have for cleaning the carbon out of the cylinders valves. They say they recommend doing it every 15k due to the ethanol in the fuel causing more carbon build up in the cylinder. Does anyone know any more information on this? I"m wondering if I should've gone ahead and done it or is there something else I can do to prevent carbon build up. I've heard a driving style of revs over 3-4k rpm, but I do mostly city driving and with cops ticket happy these days, been sticking to the speed limit. Only time I get to open her up is at the track and thats only one day out of the month. __________________ 2003 Cobra -> 2010 BMW e90 M3 - Space Grey - Black on Carbon Leather Int. - BRILLIANT CAR!!
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09-15-2011, 06:14 PM	#2
e1000 that's what SHE said! 75 Rep 1,163 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: OC iTrader: (1)	No carbon buildup issues on the M3, you're fine. This is more important for DI cars like the 335i. __________________
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09-15-2011, 06:20 PM	#3
PhillyNate ENTHUSIAST 135 Rep 2,097 Posts Drives: 2010 Porsche Cayman Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 Porsche Cayman [0.00]	I smell horsesh!t. __________________ "what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson 2010 Carrara White Porsche Cayman 6mt 2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Sold 05/23/15) 2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14) 2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11)
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09-19-2011, 01:22 PM	#5
jrlee53 Captain 157 Rep 838 Posts Drives: 2010 E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Queens, NY iTrader: (0)	They have some kind of new machine that goes in there and cleans out the valves, for $190. I'd never heard of this in our cars before. The DI makes sense since he said most of the ones getting trouble with this are mostly regular 3 and 5 series. __________________ 2003 Cobra -> 2010 BMW e90 M3 - Space Grey - Black on Carbon Leather Int. - BRILLIANT CAR!!
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09-19-2011, 07:51 PM	#6
kmarei Major General 687 Rep 6,845 Posts Drives: 2018 Audi RS5 coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Reston, VA iTrader: (34) Garage List 2018 Audi RS5 [0.00]	I just use a can of sea foam every 3 months on a full tank __________________
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09-20-2011, 10:10 AM	#8
BMRLVR Grease Monkey 295 Rep 2,646 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada iTrader: (3)	Sound just as bad as a Jiffy Lube sales pitch! __________________ 2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!! 1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
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09-20-2011, 10:29 AM	#9
longuyen88 Private First Class 3 Rep 136 Posts Drives: Non-BMW Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: WNY iTrader: (2)	sounds like seafoam lol
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09-22-2011, 09:24 AM	#10
viperssd Private First Class 17 Rep 184 Posts Drives: 2023 AW X7 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ohio, USA iTrader: (2)	With direct injection you don't have any flushing going on in the cylinders and valves, non DI cars do not have that issue __________________ 2011 335i xDrive E92 Montego Blue (Ret.) 2004 Z4 3.0i E85 Black Black Sapphire (Ret.)
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09-24-2011, 09:50 AM	#11
mdosu Banned 314 Rep 8,496 Posts Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (6)	do you drive a RS4? If no, then horsehit.
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02-14-2012, 01:26 PM	#13
WangTa First Lieutenant 35 Rep 335 Posts Drives: E90 M3, E46 m3, Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (0)	Wow - just got back from dropping off my car for service and got the same line "BMW recommends this because of "additives" to fuel. They asked for $590 - and I stupidly signed the paperwork. I just called them to tell them NOT to do it - I will be pissed if they give me the line "sorry, we're already in process". WTF!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-14-2012, 01:32 PM	#14
WangTa First Lieutenant 35 Rep 335 Posts Drives: E90 M3, E46 m3, Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (0)	Great, just got the call - "sorry, we already have the car in the shop and this service is already done". Seriously? It's been 1.5 hours since I dropped it off. I gave it to my service consultant - asking him why the F*(CK he suggested this for my M3 when its a PORT injected car with 19K miles. I also mentioned this is typically done on 335's/535's and Mini's or cars with direct injection. He didn't say much, saying this is suggested for ALL BMWs, which I called BS. He's checking with his tech guy now and will call me back. WTF. Any recommendations? I'm pretty pissed, both at him upselling, the fact I can't trust my service consultant, being an idiot and believing them, and the freakin' price $590 - that seems WAY higher than any other quote I've seen.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-14-2012, 06:38 PM	#17
GIdriver Major 68 Rep 1,359 Posts Drives: 2014 E63 AMG-S Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Somewhere in Time iTrader: (0)	Glad you solved this and they admit they fudged up. That pisses me when they try to rip you off like this. Always come here if I have any doubts on what the stealer offers or plans to do with my car.
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02-19-2012, 07:42 PM	#20
BimmerRob08 Major 110 Rep 1,311 Posts Drives: 2008 M3, Space Gray Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: KIKR (ABQ), NM iTrader: (0)	Glad I read this. Good info fella's.
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02-29-2012, 11:05 AM	#22
MrGroup Enlisted Member 5 Rep 49 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 6MT Join Date: May 2011 Location: San Antonio iTrader: (0)	Damn I love this forum. Took mine in today for 25K-ish service and got the fuel injector, alignment, balance upsell. Each service was 199$. Declined everything but was wondering this morning whether I should have at least gone with the fuel injector mumbo jumbo. Glad I didn't. 199$ buys some nice vino. First time taking it to this dealership and it will be the last. I truly think that the majority of employees have no idea how the cars work. Sad. I'm just hoping my baby comes back in one piece. I wonder if they even know what type of oil goes in the M3?
	Appreciate 0 Quote