Is is worth driving a CTS-V, C63 AMG, or IS-F before pulling the trigger on an M3?

[dhoggm3]

Don't bother with the ISF. Drive the CTSV is you like supercharger whine and can stand the looks. Drive the C63 if you like drag racing and wouldn't mind being seen in a Mercedes.

[Legion5]

To horribly oversimplify things with a lot of personal opinion:

C63: Poor quality for a car of it's price, king of horsepower

CTS-V: King of real raw performance, interior feels convoluted, little feeling of performance.

Audi S5: The M3 reimagined for more of a CEO and less of an enthusiast.

Lexus IS-F: A lame duck with a lot of refinement

M3: Pobably the most car enthusiast oriented car in it's class, the noise is spine tingling, and evokes supercars, the interior is very nice, espetially in colors other than black, the ride is nice but very connected and really has a soul to it. The looks are simply gorgeous.

The thing to take away from this is that if you like the M3, the other cars won't do it for you.

[mainstray]

I had to choose between a Corvette Z06 and the E92 M3.

[graider]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Nuff said? If you've driven the C63 at length and have that opinion, then fine, but by any unbiased opinion, the C63 is pretty special, indeed. The interior is no more or less special than the M3 (except for those cool-looking seats). Handling? In my opinion, the overall C63 package works better in everyday driving, with better steering and a more intuitive turn-in plus more readily available power, while the M3 works better when you're strafing the back roads early on a Sunday morning - or on track.

Where do you spend your time in the car? If you spend 90% of your time commuting and/or running errands, an extremely convincing case can be made for the Merc. If, on the other hand, you spend 90% of your time strafing back roads, the M3 gets the nod.

On track? The M3 can typically lap a bit faster, but I'm not convinced it'll actually be more fun - which, for any reasonable person, is what it's all about. The C63 can be easily persuaded to do spectacular powerslides, which is guaranteed to generate big grins. Not that the M3 is in any way a fuddy-duddy, either.



You're three generations late with your concern. M3s have been getting bigger, fatter and less "wieldy" with every generation, although arguably each new version is a better overall car than the one preceding.

Bruce

the c63 rides harsher than the m3, so I wouldn't say it is better as a DD.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by graider

the c63 rides harsher than the m3, so I wouldn't say it is better as a DD.

The M3 does indeed ride better than the C63 in everyday driving, and if that ranks as the most important issue for you, so be it.

For me, the "better steering and a more intuitive turn-in plus more readily available power" tips the scales in favor of the C63 - not even considering the glorious sound track.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

Don't bother with the ISF.

Right.

Because who would want to drive a car that is as fast in a straight line, is as fast around the track, has more low end torque for DD, is more reliable, and gets far better gas mileage.

Looks, interior, exhaust sound are all subjective, but to discount this car immediately shows either a ridiculous brand bias or complete lack of car knowledge.

[Cabinetman]

I think you would be doing yourself a great disservice not driving the competitors to the M3. Honestly, I think you should drive them all a few times for as long as the salesman will let you. We all have different tastes and what suites one person will not necessarily suit someone else.

I have owned both the M3 DCT and IS-F and would honestly say that the redesigned IS-F would probably be my pick out of the two. The low end torque makes of the 5.0 IS-F makes it more playful on the street without the need to rev the engine hard. Also, I prefer the interior of the F. With that said the M3 is an amazing car that is well balanced and a ton of fun when you get the chance to open it up.

I'm the kind of person that trades cars way too much. In hindsight had I spent more time driving the cars I thought were the right fit for me I probably would have saved a good chunk of money.

Good luck.

[captbilly]

Originally Posted by Mista_Vanquish

Here is some real-world perspective for you:

I test drove a 2010 Nissan GT-R this year, before placing an order for a 2011.5 E92 M3, and felt that an M3 was the best vehicle for me.

When I first sat down inside the GT-R and closed the door, my first impression was that the car is BIG. Now, to some the size is probably relative, but coming from an E46 M3 the car felt big. After pulling off to begin the test drive, all I heard were whines, creaks, sounds, etc, coming from the dual-clutch tranny, suspension, and rear differential (I know, this is just characteristic of the car). The noises were not obtrusive but you can definitely hear them.

As I pull onto the expressway, I hit the throttle, the turbos' spool briefly, and then the car takes off! (yes, there is some minor, but noticeable turbo lag). The acceleration is definitely there and the tranny shifts ultra-fast. However, I cannot tell if I am driving the car or if the car is driving itself. Reports of the GT-R feeling like a video game-like experience are all true. The car-to-driver feedback is average at best. It felt like all I had to do is steer, depress the gas, pull the paddle shifter and the car does the rest. It is really hard to make a deep connection with the car.

I also hate that you cannot shift with the shift lever; all shifts are executed using the fixed-mounted paddle shifters. I think this omission from Nissan is part reason why the connection between the car and the driver is lacking. The car handles like a dream, but, again, I really didn't have to work hard to make this car go. Also, you can definitely feel the weight of the car at times; 3800lbs doesn't just disappear when driving the GT-R. It handles its weight well, but you can feel the heft of the car when driving in the twisties. Overall, the car drove well but I just could not make the connection with the car the same way I can with the M3.

Technically, I am financially able to purchase a GT-R, but I can say that I would not be completely happy with the purchase if I did.

Don't get me wrong, I ordered an M3 last week and I don not have any regrets but the M3 is not significantly lighter than 3800 lbs.

[Cabinetman]

Originally Posted by Mista_Vanquish

Here is some real-world perspective for you:

I test drove a 2010 Nissan GT-R this year, before placing an order for a 2011.5 E92 M3, and felt that an M3 was the best vehicle for me.

When I first sat down inside the GT-R and closed the door, my first impression was that the car is BIG. Now, to some the size is probably relative, but coming from an E46 M3 the car felt big. After pulling off to begin the test drive, all I heard were whines, creaks, sounds, etc, coming from the dual-clutch tranny, suspension, and rear differential (I know, this is just characteristic of the car). The noises were not obtrusive but you can definitely hear them.

As I pull onto the expressway, I hit the throttle, the turbos' spool briefly, and then the car takes off! (yes, there is some minor, but noticeable turbo lag). The acceleration is definitely there and the tranny shifts ultra-fast. However, I cannot tell if I am driving the car or if the car is driving itself. Reports of the GT-R feeling like a video game-like experience are all true. The car-to-driver feedback is average at best. It felt like all I had to do is steer, depress the gas, pull the paddle shifter and the car does the rest. It is really hard to make a deep connection with the car.

I also hate that you cannot shift with the shift lever; all shifts are executed using the fixed-mounted paddle shifters. I think this omission from Nissan is part reason why the connection between the car and the driver is lacking. The car handles like a dream, but, again, I really didn't have to work hard to make this car go. Also, you can definitely feel the weight of the car at times; 3800lbs doesn't just disappear when driving the GT-R. It handles its weight well, but you can feel the heft of the car when driving in the twisties. Overall, the car drove well but I just could not make the connection with the car the same way I can with the M3.

Technically, I am financially able to purchase a GT-R, but I can say that I would not be completely happy with the purchase if I did.

I don't completely agree with your assessment of the GT-R. I feel like the steering is more precise and has more feedback in the GT-R than the M3. Also, turbo lag never felt like an issue to me. If it is there I never really noticed and most other cars I have owned have been NA. Actually the GT-R is the only turbo sports car I have ever had. I also like the bite and pedal feel of the brakes better in the Nissan. Finally, I don't mind the paddle only approach at all. I think Nissan did a good job making the paddles large and fixed to the steering column similar to how Ferrari does it. Once I got used to the setup I couldn't see a situation where I would want to used a console mounted shifter in place of the paddles.

I don't really get the video game comparisons to the GT-R. There is plenty of feedback from the chassis and steering just like you would want in a proper sports car. The thing about the GT-R is that its capabilities are so high that it is hard to get into a situation on the street where you feel like the car is about to get out of shape. I found myself pushing my Nissan harder than any other car I have had because it inspire so much confidence and has such high performance thresholds. It is nice to know that the technology is there in case you make a bone headed mistake.

I think you are spot on about other areas of the GT-R. It is a big car. Coming from the M3 it took some getting used to. Also, the car does make some interesting noises. My '11 wasn't as bad as the earlier cars because of added soundproofing, but you could still hear the tranny and diff make some sounds from time to time.

Here is my background for reference. I traded my 2010 M3 DCT for a 2011 GT-R which I owned for about 6 months. I got rid of the GT-R because I came across a deal that was too good for me to pass up on a '09 997.2 C2S. That ended up not being a good move and at the moment I'm about a month away from taking delivery of a 2012 GT-R I ordered in December.

I'm not here to try and change you mind about the GT-R. I just wanted to add another person's opinion to the mix. I would certainly never fault anybody for choosing an M3 over the Nissan.

[stevehifi]

Go drive the new 2011 IS-F, I got a chance to do so the other day and I've driven the 2008 version when I shopped around for the m3. The improvements are real!

One word: 'tight'! The car is amazingly connected to the road, loads of grip. The steering is impressive (better than the m3), and the experience is so much more intense, corners flatter and pulls harder.

The M3 is definitely more of a track car (with the high revving V8) but honestly you would have more fun with the IS-F in day-to-day driving.

[SCCAForums.com]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

Go drive the new 2011 IS-F, I got a chance to do so the other day and I've driven the 2008 version when I shopped around for the m3. The improvements are real!

One word: 'tight'! The car is amazingly connected to the road, loads of grip. The steering is impressive (better than the m3), and the experience is so much more intense, corners flatter and pulls harder.

The M3 is definitely more of a track car (with the high revving V8) but honestly you would have more fun with the IS-F in day-to-day driving.

As a guy who had the M3... and now the IS-F... couldn't agree more. IS-F is real deal... get's better MPG in the City... is quicker, handles better (ok equal now) and has better brakes.

Now... if you only need 2 Doors... DCT M3 E92 for the win.

[SCCAForums.com]

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

I also don't like the fact that the interior of the IS-F which is a $68,000 fully loaded, looks EXACTLY the same as our 2008 $29,000 Camry XLE V6...which is also fully loaded.

Both, mind you above that in fit & finish then the BMW.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

Don't like the rear end of the IS-F, either. The front end is improved and they got rid of the Dumbo mirrors. I also don't like the fact that the interior of the IS-F which is a $68,000 fully loaded, looks EXACTLY the same as our 2008 $29,000 Camry XLE V6...which is also fully loaded.

Wow! You're Camry has this interior?

Engine the same too?

[M3_WC]

It does look the same, lol.

They put in a couple ebay carbon fiber parts.

[Cdnrockies]

If that's the same apparently you need your eyes checked.

Exactly the same would be the interior of the lowly 328 and the M3.

[nick3753]

Agreed. Have your vision checked. They have a somewhat similar layout, but that's about it. Lexus has always been praised for quality interior, although that doesn't equate to an exciting interior. Looks uninspiring to me. Maybe it would be better in person?

[Cabinetman]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

It does look the same, lol.

They put in a couple ebay carbon fiber parts.

The trim is actually woven aluminum with a clear coat over it. It is pretty impressive in person.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

If that's the same apparently you need your eyes checked.

Exactly the same would be the interior of the lowly 328 and the M3.

People make generalizations without much thought. In fact to extrapolate what you say further in Germany M3 interior is pretty much the same as a Taxi exterior. I don't want to be driving taxi (m3) when I spend over 60k. Furthermore, since BMW cars have the family resemblance now all BMW are Taxis driven by fat blokes who shower once a month if they feel dirty.

[SCCAForums.com]

Robert... shouldn't you be directing this to GhostRide? I believe that's where the (as you call it) 'generalization' started...

[SCCAForums.com]

Ahh... ok.. different steering wheel, different dash, different glove box, different center console, different door panels, different radio layout...

I guess you have a 'similar' 'Nav' Screen... and 'shift selector guide'... I see... yup... pretty much the same?

LOL
Dave

[Robert]

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

It's not a generalization. It's my opinion.

1 + 1 does not equal 2 but hey that's my opinion.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

Looks the same to me.

holy crap i thought you were joking but they do look the same!!