Supercharged e90 M3 Failure

[THE TECH]

The tuners will always hide behind the fact that it is not their responsibility to let you know potential problems. That would be bad for marketing.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

There have been plenty of failures of engines running stock from the very beginning.

The information is there.

The point here is that a stock car can blow... well, so can a tuned one.

People just need someone to blame. Who does everyone blame when a stock motor blows?

There is zero evidence here that AA caused the failure especially given this type of failure has been seen on stock cars.

Melting or destroying just one piston and blowing a hole in the block from tuning ..... doesn't make any sense. Boost is boost no matter how you look at it.

People need to understand there is always a risk even with a stock engine let alone a boosted one. It's pretty much common sense.

There seems to be a higher rate of sc'ed s65 engine failure than stock s65,consider the small number of supercharged engines vs the vast majority of stock engines.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by advanced101

I'm not a car expert but this is serious stuff. IMHO anyone who says that it is the fully the OP's fault since he is modifying his car might be partially correct but most of the blame needs to be put on AA. If all of these potential issues are not advertised then they are doing a disservice to the tuning community. We should not have to scour internet forums to find these types of potential issues. They need to be clearly advertised on their web-site with complete research write-ups of the causes, likelihood of failure, potential solutions and lessons learned. After looking at the AA web-site there is very little information on these kits.

Example: If we now know that no 5 has been causing issues than this should be stated with an estimate likelihood of potential failure.

But if what you are saying is true on their recommendations, then they will not be getting my business.

This is such bullshit I dont even know where to begin. What exactly are you insinuating? That tuners need to publish legal disclaimers and turn their websites into goddamn CIALIS® commercials to make you feel comfortable?

Here's the bottom line for all...Don't mod your car if you know nothing about cars. You can't increase HP 50% on a stock motor and expect everything to be just like you drove it off the dealers lot forever. Problems are inevitable and if you have no understanding to recognize it, they're only compounded.

As for this cylinder 5 thing...Just like the bearing issue, I need more info before I accept this as fact.

The phrase of the day is an oldie but goodie....."Chrome don't get you home."

[advanced101]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

This is such bullshit I dont even know where to begin.

As for this cylinder 5 thing...Just like the bearing issue, I need more info before I accept this as fact.

My statement is bullshit but then you say need more info on these failures. Who has this information? The tuners?

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

This is such bullshit I dont even know where to begin. What exactly are you insinuating? That tuners need to publish legal disclaimers and turn their websites into goddamn CIALIS® commercials to make you feel comfortable?

Hey now, people need to know how long their erection is suppose to last. Pretty important info IMHO

[J08M3]

Funny how many people are jumping on AA with no clue what blew this motor.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by advanced101

Haha, my statement is bullshit but then you say need more info on these failures. Who has this information? The tuners?

Tuners are only out for themselves, so relying upon them for information like that would be completely foolish. They wouldn't sell parts if they told you that the mods would likely damage your engine.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by advanced101

Haha, my statement is bullshit but then you say need more info on these failures. Who has this information? The tuners?


Hey now, people need to know how long their erection is suppose to last. Pretty important info IMHO

The bullshit part was your request for more disclaimers. My point was that if you ever decide to go down the SC road, you have enough of a basic understanding about engines, namely our engine, to make an informed decision without disclaimers

[akh23456]

Originally Posted by J08M3

Funny how many people are jumping on AA with no clue what blew this motor.

+1 bro

[Mr. 5]

OP, Thanks for posting this.
It's very unfortunate that this happened but I really hope that more information surfaces.

BTW, for those that commented about deleting this thread, the only way that this thread will be deleted is if the OP requested it.
This is a very important thread and I'm hoping that we can learn a lot from it.
Posts, on the other hand, are a different story.

[Beedub]

i9 think i see where the OP is coming from, at the end of the day AA treatment of this customer was wrong imo..... trying to pass it off on bmw, was wrong simple as.... but op you also should be partially to blame for that part BUT... as an s/c customer i see where your coming from, youve put a kit on a car 1500 miles later your car is dead, unless thats plain bad luck you have to point the finger at the tune, now AA at the time were so cagey about what exactly had happened that this coming out now looks far worse for them......

op can i read between the lines here and just say, you think this was a tune issue right?? Did you ever get any AFR info?? any evidence of detonation or lean conditions??

We all have opinions on this but at the end of the day, id be saying exactly the same as the op... im just being honest.....

if im honest aa should have handled that whole situation including letting the community know what happened properly, if they did that, they simply wouldnt be having to deal with this now nearly 2 years on!!

[chris s]

Originally Posted by J08M3

Funny how many people are jumping on AA with no clue what blew this motor.

Actually people are jumping on AA for their handling of the situation! I think the right response would have been..."Let's get the car here to AA and diagnose what actually caused the failure". Not put the car back to stock and see if you can get the motor covered by warranty.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that a supercharged motor is more prone to failure than an NA motor is just blowing smoke!

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by chris s

Actually people are jumping on AA for their handling of the situation! I think the right response would have been..."Let's get the car here to AA and diagnose what actually caused the failure". Not put the car back to stock and see if you can get the motor covered by warranty.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that a supercharged motor is more prone to failure than an NA motor is just blowing smoke!

I agree with J08M3 - we are only hearing 1 side of the story. I had heard a few different versions of this story about a year ago and this one is again completely different.

Unfortunately we dont really know how AA handled this situation, but hopefully more information will surface. Not enough info here yet. I always get a little suspect when a story comes out long after the fact.

[coogs08]

Whenever I am involved in a business transaction that goes wrong, in which I'm the buyer, the effort and steps that the seller go through to correct the situation is more important to me than the mistake itself. If they go out of their way to correct it, I would respect them even more than if there was no mistake at all.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by chris s

Actually people are jumping on AA for their handling of the situation! I think the right response would have been..."Let's get the car here to AA and diagnose what actually caused the failure". Not put the car back to stock and see if you can get the motor covered by warranty.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that a supercharged motor is more prone to failure than an NA motor is just blowing smoke!

+1

[0-60Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

Hi Guys,

as a competitor to Active I hope my view will be taken seriously. It's not in my interest to help anyone out but in life you have to be fair and speak out.

I feel very bad for the OP and his issues but really AA should not be blanket accused like this without proof of their hardware/software actually causing any issue.
Why do I say this? Well my reasons are based on experience of the S65 engine as follows:

We have seen 5 cars here ourselves blow out Cyl no 5 in the exact same way as this case.
Most cars were stock and blew at medium load around mid rpm's under normal driving.

On the 2 cars that were out of warranty we decided to check by bore scoping and found pistons to be heavily damaged, spark plugs damaged and pieces of valve moving around inside or make their way into the stock CAT's.

We know our local dealers here know of even more but won't talk too much about it. So there are more than just the ones we have seen.

Even on the cars out of warranty BMW UK replaced the engines without question! They did try to charge labour on these cars but even then the owners gave a small fight and they gave in. What does this tell you?

To reiterate -- all cars had cyl no 5 blow out.

This is in our opinion a problem with the cyl head in the cyl 5 area on some cars. Not cam timing based either as if it was then you would have other pistons damaged too.

While I was in Dubai last month I saw another car blow Cyl no 5 and that's again running stock tune.

I know for a FACT that other tuners know about some cars blowing Cyl 5 and it surprises me they don't post about it when something bad happens to a tuner.

The question as to if Active gave good customer service or not if a different issue. They did pay something which in our book does go a long way.

They have plenty of supercharged cars around the world and not one has failed like this.

We should be very very careful about pointing fingers at a company.

This failure of cyl 5, in my professional opinion, has nothing to do with the AA supercharger kit being fitted.

I hope this information is useful to everyone and I hope everyone appreciates the fact that it is NOT in 'business interest' to defend the competition.

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

There have been plenty of failures of engines running stock from the very beginning.

The information is there.

The point here is that a stock car can blow... well, so can a tuned one.

People just need someone to blame. Who does everyone blame when a stock motor blows?

There is zero evidence here that AA caused the failure especially given this type of failure has been seen on stock cars.

Melting or destroying just one piston and blowing a hole in the block from tuning ..... doesn't make any sense. Boost is boost no matter how you look at it.

People need to understand there is always a risk even with a stock engine let alone a boosted one. It's pretty much common sense.

Excellent posts Sal and completely agree with you! thanks for sharing your knowledge

[Dave07997S]

My .02..if you want a supercharged car buy one that from the factory was designed from the ground up for FI. The S65 motor by itself in OEM form is already making over 100hp/litre, you bump this up to 150hp/litre and you don't expect something to give means in my eyes that you have your head in the sand. Look at cars that are blown..take a Mustang GT500 for example. This car gets a lowered compression ratio, forged crank and rods along with a piston package to boot. Not to mention intercoolers that are designed around the engine not some afterthought..this is just to name a few but you see where I am going with this. Why does the manafacturer go these lengths? Its because they have to warranty the car.

Yes stock motors can blow, but do you not feel that slapping on a blower will exasperate the situation?

Kyoshi...lot of experience with Cialis huh? LOL..

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

My .02..if you want a supercharged car buy one that from the factory was designed from the ground up for FI. The S65 motor by itself in OEM form is already making over 100hp/litre, you bump this up to 150hp/litre and you don't expect something to give means in my eyes that you have your head in the sand. Look at cars that are blown..take a Mustang GT500 for example. This car gets a lowered compression ratio, forged crank and rods along with a piston package to boot. Not to mention intercoolers that are designed around the engine not some afterthought..this is just to name a few but you see where I am going with this. Why does the manafacturer go these lengths? Its because they have to warranty the car.

Yes stock motors can blow, but do you not feel that slapping on a blower will exasperate the situation?

Kyoshi...lot of experience with Cialis huh? LOL..

I agree with this +1. Why start with the wrong car? The whole point of it is N/A power and nice handling balance. Start with a GT500 or GT-R.

At least the OP has a new engine. Engines were updated in 2009 I believe.

[LostM]

More disclaimers? Wow, now i know who is voting away my freedom.
Adults make decisions, either you can afford to throw away your bmw warranty and accept risk, or you cant and want to cheat bmw.. But then if your gonna cheat bmw, why should aftermarket company trust you? Hence no warranty on anything other thsn parts they sold you.

Dont worry AA, rational adults can filter bs and see who deserves what, even iff we only have 33% of the story..

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by LostM

More disclaimers? Wow, now i know who is voting away my freedom.
Adults make decisions, either you can afford to throw away your bmw warranty and accept risk, or you cant and want to cheat bmw.. But then if your gonna cheat bmw, why should aftermarket company trust you?
Dont worry AA, rational adults can filter bs and see who deserves what, even iff we only have 33% of the story..

Hmmmmmmmmm, you're blaming the OP for trying to cheat BMW when it was aftermarket company that suggested it and then do it. Might be helpful to get your facts straight....

[J08M3]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Hmmmmmmmmm, you're blaming the OP for trying to cheat BMW when it was aftermarket company that suggested it and then do it. Might be helpful to get your facts straight....

Nothing is proven fact posted on here. If OP is willing to lie to BMW how do we know he's not lying about AA??? ...... just saying....

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by J08M3

Nothing is proven fact posted on here. If OP is willing to lie to BMW how do we know he's not lying about AA??? ...... just saying....

I think he said AA suggested he put it back to stock and even reflashed the ecu for him to make it look stock but got caught on the top speed. I wonder if there were any engine overrevs on there too?

[IMG]