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03-25-2013, 03:16 PM | #67 | |
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Not sure if you noticed the title of this thread before you posted in it, but OP asked for opinions from those who switched from DCT to 6MT. Ergo, one would expect every post in this thread to be from 6MT owners justifying their purchases, and properly so. It's what the OP asked for.
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03-25-2013, 05:20 PM | #69 |
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I did the inverse...
I don't normally post on the 6MT/DCT threads, but I have a someone unique point of view of having lived with both transmissions, on the street and on the track. I went from a 11 E90 6MT to a 12 E92 DCT. I never thought I'd own 2 of the same car, but it just happened. I built both the way I wanted, and when it came time for the second one I decided to try DCT after being frustrated with the clunky 6MT implementation in the E90: wonky clutch position, rubbery shifter that's way too tall, lots of noise.
Although the 6MT purists out there (myself formerly included) will always have their gripes the BMW DCT is a gearbox that delivers faster shifts, better fuel economy, and an amazingly competent auto mode for when you end up sitting in traffic. The zero power loss upshifts and rev-matched downshifts are just icing on the cake, they make me forget rowing the gears and let me keep both hands on the wheel at the track. For the way the S65 delivers power (slow and even until 5K then OMGHANGONIJUSTHITTHEREVLIMITERAGAIN) my opinion is that the DCT is the right choice for pretty much every circumstance especially track events/HPDE. At the track not having to reach down to shift constantly attempting to stay in the large but quick to rev and high RPM S65 sweet spot has allowed me to focus on driving, not shifting. |
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03-25-2013, 05:57 PM | #70 |
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03-25-2013, 05:58 PM | #71 |
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Why would you ever go back, DCT is the only way to fly and all my past M3's have been manuals.
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03-25-2013, 06:01 PM | #72 |
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DCT is an amazing transmission and seems to be reliable up to this point. Saying that I own a DCT F10 M5 and i'm awaiting delivery on my '13 E92 M3 6MT. Why did I go with a manual? I wanted to switch it up a bit, and i've been to the track with my previous MT M cars and thoroughly enjoyed the experience of driving a manual. You can't go wrong with either transmissions!
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03-25-2013, 07:33 PM | #73 | |
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It cost over 60k, bad on gas, rear wheel drive , high insurance etc.... and of course expensive maintenance out of warrnety. which most cars on the road today are without a warranty. plus have you looked at the average income in the US. Ya look into that.... My point is this. My car was priced over 70 grand. We can agree that this is a lot of money, IMO people who spend a lot of money on cars like this should be getting what they want. Thinking about something going wrong 5 years into ownership is not the way i see someone with money doing. but i think i need to come back to reality also and realize that most people do not live within there means. So maybe i am out of line saying what i just said. I personally do not plan to own this car for over 4-5 years, or at least in a daily driver purpose. If i was planning on long term ownership i would buy a GT500 or Z06 corvette. cars that have much cheaper repair bills. On a side note please do not think i do not love a 6 speed. In fact i was going for a manual when i went car shopping. I was having a hard time finding one in a manual, so i test drove a DCT and loved it. I would never buy a non double clutch transmission in a performance car. rather a manual costed extra or DCT costed extra it simply wouldn't have matter. Because its what i wanted. |
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03-25-2013, 07:45 PM | #74 | |
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03-25-2013, 08:04 PM | #75 | |
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Frankly, it was pretty offensive of you to try to introduce logic into the discussion. |
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03-25-2013, 08:17 PM | #76 |
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No CSanto, what you asked for is responses from those who have made the switch from DCT to 6mt.
What you apparently were looking for would have resulted in the following post title: "Hey guys, I'm thinking about doing something that doesn't make sense; if you have a 6MT, then help me convince myself that I'm doing the right thing. |
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03-26-2013, 01:06 AM | #77 | |
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I guess it "made sense" for that guy. Who are you to substitute your opinion for fact? Maybe you should look up the definition of 'preference' before you embarrass yourself any further. OP asked for opinions among those who have switched from DCT to 6MT. He didn't ask for opinions of DCT drivers who think there's no reason to drive a 6MT, or those who think it "doesn't make any sense" to drive a manual. You can go spread that horse manure in the Club DCT thread. There's plenty of people who have switched from DCT to 6MT. In fact, I just shared a thread about it, and there have been other people who have chimed in, in this thread. Personally, I was set on DCT for quite some time before I changed my order (after test-driving DCT about as much as I could without owning it). So excuse me while I and others provide the OP and information with the resources he requested. Those who switched, like me and the poster in the thread I linked, concede the technical advantages of DCT. None of us are trying to say DCT is inferior, or slower, or anything of the sort. We know DCT is faster. We choose 6MT for a different reason. That reason is called the fun/engagement factor. And if you are incapable of understanding that, well, then you have nothing to contribute to this thread. Whether it makes sense or not to you, is irrelevant.
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03-26-2013, 03:11 AM | #78 |
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A few more perspectives:
1. Technological innovation is inevitable. There was a time when manual gearboxes offered far superior pure performance than automatics. I remember back in 1981 when my dad had a Saab turbo. The manual was 1.8 sec faster to 60 than the automatic. Todays DCTs are superior performers. In fact, as a lifelong car enthusiast, I always knew that, at some point, transmission technology would develop to the point where a machine and computer would be able to shift faster and produce better numbers than a human being. For those that are hell bent on pure performance, DCT is the obvious choice. This is why you will never see a Nissan GTR with a manual. That is a car developed as a pure performance tool, not one to satisfy other facets of the driving experience as well. And this brings me to point number 2..... 2. Pure performance vs. driving enjoyment. These are NOT the same, although often times we tend to talk and act like they are. Obviously for the enthusiast, performance (by the numbers) is a key element of enjoyment, but to what degree? Is a Shelby GT500 more enjoyable than a Cayman S? On the overall balance sheet, probably not. Absolute speed capability is only one element of performance (albeit an important one), and objective performance is only one element of driving enjoyment. Driving enjoyment is a sensory experience. In the end, it all comes down to sensory input into our brain that gives us that enjoyment. The more varied the sensory experience, the more enjoyable it will be. That is why looks matter. That is why interior design matters. That is why the feel of certain materials matter. That is why sounds matter. That is suspension and steering calibrations matter. And that is why transmission choice can matter also. It is the same reason some people are die-hard convertible fans, despite the compromises to pure performance that can come with some of those cars. 3. Practicality. As much as I love a manual, my DD is an automatic. Since there is no performance advantage to a manual anymore, it becomes simply a matter of comfort/convenience vs. maximum sensory enjoyment. If my M3 was my only vehicle, it would be a DCT. Yes, my manual is more of a rewarding sensory experience, but the DCT has certainly closed the gap. It is close enough, that I would sacrifice a bit of that sensory experience to have the convenience and comfort of an automatic for daily transport needs. In the end, you buy a manual for the subjective sensory experience. For the objective/practical aspects of driving, DCT is the choice.
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--Former BMW M3 owner Last edited by LarThaL; 03-26-2013 at 04:16 AM.. |
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03-26-2013, 03:34 AM | #79 | |
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I'm just puzzled by how defensive some people are with their decisions (either pro-DCT or manual). |
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03-26-2013, 05:02 AM | #80 | |
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And what sort of lame brained individual asks on a forum for help on deciding which transmission to go for? You might as well ask whether to buy apples or oranges and decide on the outcome rather than your own taste. Except people would start to suggest that the enthusiast prefers oranges, that oranges are more involving because they have to be to peeled, oranges are less likely to go bad and soon there will be no more oranges. Save the oranges. Oranges FTW +1 +100 |
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03-26-2013, 05:27 AM | #81 | |
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03-26-2013, 06:40 AM | #82 |
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DCT all the way. On the track, in traffic, it's A LOT of fun. Not that I'm saying 6MT sucks but DCT seems to be the perfect fit for the M3.
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03-26-2013, 07:09 AM | #84 | |
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03-26-2013, 07:35 AM | #86 |
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I didn't switch but after reading all the posts on these forums about how good the DCT is I went and test drove a few of them. Fun car to drive but is it OMGWTFBBQ faster than a 6MT? No.
I dont understand this pissing match. They are the same car. Either you want to shift or you don't. It's not really that big of a deal. I've got an 08 and a 6mt. Bottom of the barrel baby! |
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03-26-2013, 07:43 AM | #87 | |
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As much as DCT could be considered an automatic, it does not behave nor feel the same as a standard auto. First, most automatics offer worse acceleration performance than their manual counterparts. Further, they have a very "disconnected drivetrain" feeling due to the torque converter, hence the slush box designation. I have driven my friends IS-F, I totally disliked the transmission. Same impression for my other buddy's C63 I've driven (it was the older version before MCT). If the M3 was offered with a choice of MT or standard slushbox automatic, I would not even give the automatic a consideration. The DCT is a very interesting compromise. Although I do miss rowing my own gears and doing nice heel-and-toe downshifts, I don't regret my choice of picking the DCT . The choice between DCT and 6MT all boils down to personal preference. There is no good or bad answer . Last edited by CanAutM3; 03-26-2013 at 07:48 AM.. |
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03-26-2013, 07:59 AM | #88 | ||
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IMHO, at legal speeds, the involvement of the 6MT enhances the M3 experience (I would miss the satisfaction of a good 4/3 downshift). That said, a tuned GTI with DSG could probably walk me to 30. My next M will likely be DCT, but not because I want it to be...for now, I'll keep rowing! To each his own. |
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