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      01-16-2016, 10:50 PM   #67
Needbmwpartzz
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Originally Posted by fazman
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Which point? I had several. I'm sure you have Google too.
yes sir i have google and yahoo as past employers, i also used them to provide proof of my points above. If you can't provide your own searches then all your points are opinion and not fact because you have no supporting sources (you can't site yourself as a source because you haven't proven you know what you are talking about yet). i'm sure janitors work at JPL for decades, doesn't make them rocket scientists and your not matt damon in the movie good will hunting...

read what you wrote to me, hit up your favorite search provider and get me your source of truth since you are a SME it should take you seconds to prove your points rather than me already having proven you wrong with sources. You don't have to do this... but just state it as your opinion and not fact (until you have PROOF).
Not my argument but will chime in for the hell of it.....dude this is a forum not a Dissertation for a Doctoral degree....providing a link is just a bonus....if you want pure information you need to do your own research.
If people want Wikipedia they will got there....forums are for exchanging information of all sorts....true or false and is up to you to sift through the bullish!t.
All the best!
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      01-17-2016, 10:35 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
Not my argument but will chime in for the hell of it.....dude this is a forum not a Dissertation for a Doctoral degree....providing a link is just a bonus....if you want pure information you need to do your own research.
If people want Wikipedia they will got there....forums are for exchanging information of all sorts....true or false and is up to you to sift through the bullish!t.
All the best!
Yeah, I'm not even going to reply to his Bernie Sanders conspiritorial line of bs. I've been in the industry to long to worry about it. He's one of those that knows it all even when the vast body of evidence contradicts him. I've done this before with people and they are ready and armed with a long list of bs references and want you to have yours too. Mine is from talking to the leading authorities in the industry daily in person or on the phone, not from reading Mel Gibson conspiracy theory crap. I know the earth is flat, and ancient aliens built the pyramids too. Have fun.
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      01-17-2016, 11:56 AM   #69
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This is an election year guys, oil is always down to make citizens happy. Not sure if you know this but there is a group of peeps like a cartel that "control/manipulate" these prices kinda like the Fed with int rates.

Not sure if you know this but the USA prez meets with the top CEO's every year all in one go, i wonder what they talk about... probably their favorite TV shows or fav Netflix original episodes

As much as you and I as retail investors feel like we have a say in politics or in corporate proxy votes... we don't. Computers run by MM's with high speed connections that front run all of our retail stock trades actually move the markets in the direction that the models are entered to cause max profit for them and max pain for the novice investor.

When everyone is selling their mom's to buy 1 share of Hot Company stock, thats your signal to get out. When everything in the news is about doom/gloom and people say,"the last thing you should ever do is buy stock"... thats when you go all in and buy into solid companies that moved down only because the market shifted (but are solid companies on paper).

never stop investing in retirement accts, you can always still max out and park the money in cash or eqivilant. That way you have dry powder when the market is on the rebound.

Don't try to catch the market on the way down... thats called "trying to catch a falling knife" your going to get cut and hurt. No one will time the bottom, but its best to wait till the upswing and miss a little of the bottom. rallys are long so its okay to miss some inital gains but try to avoid losses at all cost.

Don't use margin or borrow money to invest, its always a bad deal. If you say a stock can't drop 20%, 50%, 66%, etc... guess what... they do its really hard to recover if you held it all the way down. I've personally ridden NFLX from the early $20's --> $294 and then back down to $50's --> $400 ish before i got out

DON'T ever buy into an IPO company for at least the first 366 days of trading... they usually trend down as insider restrictions are removed. They will get lots of drama and lots of insiders dump them to cash out (IPO's are actually an exit strategy for founders).

Just so you're happy, let's go point by point. Oil down in an election year.
Theread are times when it does, and timed when it doesn't. The term conspiracy theory is used frequently through the article which it is.
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2012-11-06/the-oddities-of-election-year-gasoline-prices

Small group manipulating oil prices. It's called OPEC. They're the only group that does. Other than that it's a free market.
http://www.businessinsider.com/opec-now-believes-in-letting-the-market-take-care-of-oil-prices-2014-12

The president's meet with corporate heads. Why? To push their agendas. In Obama case it's to push climate change agenda and in all cases for raising campaign funding and votes.
http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-meet-fortune-500-ceos-boost-support-climate-change-efforts-2145786

Micro computer trading manipulates the markets. You posted that the high speed trading manipulates the prices then gave a link as proof. Your link talked about miniscule trades for pennies that were amplified by thousands of trades to make money. Your article doesn't need a link. It just needs common sense interpretation.

If it really was an advantage then everybody especially the large firms and investors would be doing it. They're not. They use trading desks and do bug block trading. Why? Because it isn't front running. Front running is manipulation. Illegal. If they did this as a firm policy their doors would be closed permanently. The perceived advantage is based on your program you can catch movements of the markets. So what. You still need to make the call of buying on the downside and selling on the upside or this strategy just becomes an expensive etf. What big investors and institutions do is buy in large lots. This gets them institutional pricing so they spend less on the trade. Like buying in bulk at Sam's Club. You get that advantage when you but a mutual fund as the pool of assets make you an institional investor too. The downside is if you want to get in or out you could actually move the price against you both directions as you are literally moving the price with your large trades. If you buy a stock large amounts by the time your done you've pushed the price up making it more expensive for you than for the little guy doing one trade. Same on the downside. You get out at lower prices. That's why typically large investors, institutions, etc move in or out over time and not in one movement. The computer stuff did do some market crashes. This is because they are told to sell if a specific price is hit automatically. If the market dips, it triggers sells, them those sells dip the market more triggering more sells etc in a cascading effect. This is why regulators have enacted rules on this type of trading and the crashes happened. Not because there was any competitive advantage.

The rest u agree with except instead of trying to catch the market on the upswing, I would say dollar cost average. There is no way to tell of there is an upswing or a downswing. Dollar cost averaging guarantees you will have a lower cost per share price over time as you buy less shares when the market is up and more shares when it is down. It's not timing the market, it's time in the market that wins.
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      01-17-2016, 12:06 PM   #70
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Remember
The SEC is a separate enforcement body that regulates the industry. If it sees something unfair it stops it. Fines, orders of cease and desist, closing firms, licenses revoked, etc. This is what happens to front runners. Putnam funds was one of the top players but they did some after market trading that was illegal. They made millions but they were caught and lost 20 times what they had made as well as had a stigma attached to them for decades.
The next level is the corporate. The officers are responsible for their underlings. They have companies departments reviewing everyone follows the same rules. I've seen several employees fired over the years trying to do something a little past what they were supposed to. Smaller firms shut down for the same reason, and plenty of bosses lose their jobs for things they weren't aware of happening. The large firms won't let this happen. Too much money is made doing it legally and they won't risk killing the golden goose for what to them is pennies.they make their money on fees, not market investments or manipulation.
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      01-20-2016, 12:16 PM   #71
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Argh!! More pain today.

Must. Turn. Away.

"Don't look, Ethel!!"
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      01-20-2016, 02:22 PM   #72
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Invested my money in an engagement ring..hopefully I don't lose my shirt (or half of it) in this deal.
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      01-20-2016, 02:26 PM   #73
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Should be no surprise or pain for anyone in this market. Market goes up and eventually goes down...this is simply the way things are.

Invest in low-cost, efficient market tracking funds.
Avoid hedge-funds or hyper-active funds like the plague. Avoid commodities.
Re-balance occasionally.
Rinse and repeat.

There's no point in fretting over whether a market is going to tank. The market will always tank eventually. Make sure your portfolio is balanced to an acceptable level of risk and simply ride out the storm...that's the best most individual investors can hope for.
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      01-20-2016, 04:13 PM   #74
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Close. Markets move in cycles. Market tracking and index funds suck for 2 reasons. One, managers long term who manage actively can outperform, especially if it is investing in smaller stocks, foreign, sectors, etc and generally if you have someone helping you pick them will after expenses and 2 most of these are do it yourself. This is the easiest way to loose money long term. You should have a financial advisor help you. After fees people typically have much better long term returns using an advisor over doing it yourself. Right now for example you should be buying.
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      01-20-2016, 04:44 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwando View Post
Invested my money in an engagement ring..hopefully I don't lose my shirt (or half of it) in this deal.
I'm glad to see you don't appear to be overly concerned about losing your balls....so given that, you should be ok.

Just kidding - happily married myself and one of the best things I ever did, so congrats on the future marriage!
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      01-20-2016, 05:41 PM   #76
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Invested my money in an engagement ring..hopefully I don't lose my shirt (or half of it) in this deal.
She has family money then, right?
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      01-31-2016, 07:18 PM   #77
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Things are looking up. Temporarily, at least. Actually gained a bit this last quarter. Still down on the year, but not as bad as before.

All that is counterbalanced by the recent announcement of furlough days and/or layoffs coming soon at my university. I wish this damn state's government would smarten up and do something right for a change.
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      02-01-2016, 01:45 AM   #78
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Hey M_Six, Just blame me - I retired last month and almost immediately saw my net worth drop 5%. Cause and effect if I've ever seen it...
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      02-02-2016, 11:43 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
Not my argument but will chime in for the hell of it.....dude this is a forum not a Dissertation for a Doctoral degree....providing a link is just a bonus....if you want pure information you need to do your own research.
If people want Wikipedia they will got there....forums are for exchanging information of all sorts....true or false and is up to you to sift through the bullish!t.
All the best!
Not asking for a Dissertation for a Doctoral buddy, I made it very simple and clear:

1) educate people with a source if you want to make a claim as a fact
2) If you can't provide a source, then it's just your opinion (true or false is up to the reader like you said).

We are saying the same thing but you just can't comprehend what was written
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      02-02-2016, 11:50 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Close. Markets move in cycles. Market tracking and index funds suck for 2 reasons. One, managers long term who manage actively can outperform, especially if it is investing in smaller stocks, foreign, sectors, etc and generally if you have someone helping you pick them will after expenses and 2 most of these are do it yourself. This is the easiest way to loose money long term. You should have a financial advisor help you. After fees people typically have much better long term returns using an advisor over doing it yourself. Right now for example you should be buying.
What is your take (opinion) on Chinese New Year being on Feb 8th, 2016 impact on the volume of buying/selling near term? People need to get the money in hand this week to get their red envelopes ready... I suspect by end of week we will level off and possible rise.

I also suspect that we are going to have a strong spring rally but you want to get out of the market (or go short) by Memorial Day.

Election year will make things rocky in Q3 but December 2016 should be solid money maker since it will be a lame duck prez?
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      02-02-2016, 11:52 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
Not my argument but will chime in for the hell of it.....dude this is a forum not a Dissertation for a Doctoral degree....providing a link is just a bonus....if you want pure information you need to do your own research.
If people want Wikipedia they will got there....forums are for exchanging information of all sorts....true or false and is up to you to sift through the bullish!t.
All the best!
Not asking for a Dissertation for a Doctoral buddy, I made it very simple and clear:

1) educate people with a source if you want to make a claim as a fact
2) If you can't provide a source, then it's just your opinion (true or false is up to the reader like you said).

We are saying the same thing but you just can't comprehend what was written
The world would surely be a better place if all cited sources......you sir can be the leader of such movement.
Good luck
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      02-02-2016, 12:40 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Kwando View Post
Invested my money in an engagement ring..hopefully I don't lose my shirt (or half of it) in this deal.
Confussed!! How can you call that an investment!!!! Plz elaborate if you don't mind
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