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08-14-2010, 01:34 AM | #1 | ||
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putting torque to rest
This one is for those who don't understand how torque and gearing work, and thus don't understand how to use a high performance vehicle. It's dedicated to the individuals who only look at engine numbers, and don't realize that gearing can amplify or completely nullify the torque you have. To this end, I've put together a graph illustrating the torque applied at the wheels, to compare the 335 and M3, since their gearing is different.
If any of this confuses you, I suggest you read this, it's a decent primer on the basics. Just to quote some key points: Quote:
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To any physics buffs out there, yes, this is simplified, but that's the point ;-) One last thing, I only did the first three gears because I didn't want to clutter the graph too much, basically it's more of the same. Edit: Adding a better graph per suggestions, laying out the gears/torque by speed to show how the M3 has greater torque through the run. Last edited by sor; 08-14-2010 at 02:46 PM.. |
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08-14-2010, 02:03 AM | #2 |
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This is good, but I have doubts it will ever put this to rest. Many have tried over the past two years by making the same point. The same folks (or type of folks) continue to miss the point and will continue to rave about how the 335 "is faster" and has more "low end torque".
The turnover rate on the board actually seems pretty high, so I may be wrong in with my somewhat jaded thinking. So, you may reach a few folks, and if you do then your effort was well worth it! So kudos for taking the time and effort to illuminate this subject! |
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08-14-2010, 02:20 AM | #3 |
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Would it be possible to graph speed vs. torque in those gears? I'm curious to see how much (little??) time would be spent in the area where the 335 has it's advantage. Only going to 2500 RPM it can't be much time at all and only in first gear unless you're short-shifting the piss out of the car.
Excellent post! |
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08-14-2010, 02:47 AM | #4 |
that's what SHE said!
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An even better graph would be to have MPH across the bottom and to map out each gear sequentially. This would really show how the M3 can hold onto a gear, and deliver a much larger ammount of torque to the ground than a 335i.
Also, from all the dyno charts I've seen, the 335i dosen't have a completely flat torque curve below 2k rpms like you show. People might get the wrong idea. |
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08-14-2010, 03:14 AM | #7 |
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08-14-2010, 07:38 AM | #8 |
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Where did the graph come from? You made an excel sheet with some numbers and made it a graph and say this is the answer to everything? I am not saying I don't agree with you, I am just wondering.
For daily driving, my 335 is far far far (let me write a bold big one as well) FAR better than most cars out there and its more than enough. I can probably use %20 of its potential even in empty highways. There is no discussion about how M3 is great but is the %50 price premium justified for a daily driver with low end torque requirement more than anything? It's like apple ipad. It's so nice, it's state of the art, but for an average person who reads the news on his iphone for 15 minutes a day and sends an e-mail every other day and checks it once a day, it's a big waste of money. But that still doesn't change the fact that its better than iphone. This is the problem people make here, no question M3 is better than 335. The real problem with M3 vs 335 should be cost justification, not which one is better. For someone with no financial restrictions, obviously as with ipad, go buy the best one, but most people here are not like that, hence they come here and compare the two cars to give themselves a clear piece of mind about which one to buy or use. Rest is all kid's game seriously, which one is better? which one is faster? which one has more torque? Do you guys seriously think BMW would make a car for %50 more than its lower end version which wouldn't be better? Come on now Edit : To OP, sorry I thought you were saying M3 was better, given that how we are the minority here, didn't expect someone to come with a 335 graph. |
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08-14-2010, 07:54 AM | #10 |
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08-14-2010, 08:22 AM | #11 |
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I have owned both and they are great cars. The perfect example of siblings...same basic DNA with different personalies, strengths and weaknesses.
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08-14-2010, 09:59 AM | #12 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
To the OP - Thank you for taking the time, but i agree with Finnegan's sentiments though |
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08-14-2010, 10:05 AM | #13 |
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Of course it's waste of money, but so is iphone, and a polo t-shirt for $65 or a brooks brothers shirt for $120, but so is a lot of things in life, yet we still do them, the question is when you do it and how you do it. I am being objective about this, the fact that I will buy an M3 and how I still think this way should be a proof to that. M3 is a great car, but its a car, that's all.
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08-14-2010, 10:15 AM | #14 | |
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08-14-2010, 10:24 AM | #15 | |
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If you only value a car to get from point A to point B in a reasonable amount of time and thats it then buy a used civic or something because anything else would be a waste of money for that purpose. Many of us value getting from point A to point B in style, with speed, with enjoyment of driving, with a smile on our faces and listening to the mechanical symphony that is the M3 V8 and for that the M3 is most certainly worth the money. |
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08-14-2010, 10:24 AM | #16 | |
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You can apply it to anything such as clothing brands, electronics, etc. and people will pay more for the "premium" or better product. People like my dad who makes good money is happy with a Siverado and walmart t-shirts. This is why the 335 vs. M3 debate will never be over. A 335 is more than enough car for a lot of people and the M3 is viewed as a steal for the price by others. If I was happy with a 335 or better yet a Kia or Hyundai I would have a lot more money in the bank each month ...But I'm content being a Polo, Brooks Brothers, M3 driving douche because I work hard and I can do as I please. Seriously though, the debate will never end but your making the right move getting the M3
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08-14-2010, 10:25 AM | #17 | |
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08-14-2010, 10:26 AM | #18 | |
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08-14-2010, 10:32 AM | #20 |
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08-14-2010, 10:38 AM | #21 |
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Exactly!!!!!!!!! Anyone that is willing to look at these graphs can easily see the M3 can put far more torque to the ground than a 335 at any given speed. In essence, the M3 is the "torque monster"
It's a shame that a lot of people misunderstand the relationship between horsepower, torque and how gearing plays into the equation. |
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08-14-2010, 11:02 AM | #22 |
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This is exactly the same mistake I made and the exact same remedy. I guess you really can't call it a mistake as both cars are great, but I smile every time I get into the M. That is the biggest difference for me. A big grin from ear to ear.
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