RPi Ram Intake Scoops with Dyno. [14 whp]

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by tightie

for all you non-believers..

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/m5-...available.html

do your homework before you bash...

38 pages ugh, do you have direct links in that thread to independent before and after dyno charts. What road speeds/gear would the 14hp gain reflect, gotta be variable.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by jtblcksprt

i don't own an m3 but it's the same principal for my car's application. my only concern - if its more of a direct shot for air to enter, when raining can water be sucked in??? if so, this couldn't be good for internals

Water won't make it past your air filter, and will drain down an opening somewhere. There is moisture in the air to begin with, which makes it into the engine. That doesn't damage the internals or anything. There is a large front facing intake left bottom of the bumper by design anyway.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by ihyln

I have these scoops in and they do indeed make a difference while driving.

At what speeds?

[ihyln]

At about 50mph+ my butt dyno tells me it's REALLY moving as opposed to just "moving" before. Under hard throttle the effect is even more pronounced.

I question dyno gains using an airscoop like this when it's not done in a wind tunnel. But this one is the real deal.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by jtblcksprt

i don't own an m3 but it's the same principal for my car's application. my only concern - if its more of a direct shot for air to enter, when raining can water be sucked in??? if so, this couldn't be good for internals

I don't think it's more direct--everything still goes through the airbox. I share some of the other's skepticism, but I'm not discounting it. Seems like something those German engineers could have figured out, though, especially if the aftermarket had already done it to the M5?!

[Ronin13]

Originally Posted by tightie

for all you non-believers..

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/m5-...available.html

do your homework before you bash...

If the M3 and M5 had the same intake design, then I would be more inclined to believe the M5 experienced gains would translate to the M3. However, where the M5's only intake points are behind the grill, that's only one of three points on the M3. And the M3 already has a ram air scoop with the point on the lower bumper. Great news if the M3 really is air starved and there is extra easy HP there. But, it's not an apples to apples comparison.

[MDCTFTW]

Originally Posted by lucid

Water won't make it past your air filter, and will drain down an opening somewhere. There is moisture in the air to begin with, which makes it into the engine. That doesn't damage the internals or anything. There is a large front facing intake left bottom of the bumper by design anyway.

But moisture in the air is much different than raining full droplets of water. I'm not sure if it really matters or not though. Someone with these Frito Scoops should drive in the rain for a few hours and check out how soaked the filters are.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by MDCTFTW

But moisture in the air is much different than raining full droplets of water. I'm not sure if it really matters or not though. Someone with these Frito Scoops should drive in the rain for a few hours and check out how soaked the filters are.

Not really. By the time any water goes through the airbox and the throttle bodies, and gets into the cylinders it would be vaporized anyway, and hence moisture. If you have a lot of moisture, I guess that can affect combustion, but there is no way you'll get that much water/moisture in there just because you added these little scoops. Again, the front facing bumper intake must be taking in lots of water and other things. I stuck my hand in there and didn't run into any kind of filter or anything.

[SlammedR8]

had to chime in on this,
I have the RPi scoops on my E93- and at above 60mph(100kmh) you REALLY feel the power. I stay in 6th gear and gas it and it pulllllss harder then it did before the install!
Great mod!!

OP, is your new mod installed something that replaces the Air Scoops or it goes along with it??

[Sticky]

Crap, what is the difference between these scoops and the 335 scoops? Eloy installed the 335 ones for me and said these were the ones for the M3, same thing.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

I went down this road months before you did with the Gruppe-M CAI. The initial dyno results showed 10hp gain; but upon closer inspection of the uncorrected numbers, showed much smaller. I'm in the process of reposting these results.

I'm honest enough, and loathful enough of Kool-Aide drinkers, that I'm regularly asking what it is about this CAI that makes more power. For example, the Gruppe-M still uses the same three pick-up points as the stock intake; and they're still the same exact size. So how could this make any more HP? I personally think if the intake is a better insulator than the stock plastic, then it will keep the air cooler; and cooler air allows the ECU to send a leaner mixture and make more power. If the new air filter is more efficient than the stock filter, then it will breath easier. Both of these can have a positive influence motor performance and therefore HP.

Where's the pictures?

More cool air gets pushed to the intake, pretty simple and it works better than the Gruppe M for thousands less.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

I don't know what you're reading into what I wrote...that would evoke that response. Let's assume we all know how they're supposed to work; and price is irrelevant...since the price doesn't help increase or decrease the measured HP. But there's nothing in the OP (or follow-up) that would indicate whether or not the intake provides extra cool air.

If it does provide extra cool air -- how? I'm convinced that the Gruppe-M doesn't provide ANY extra cool air -- since it uses the same exact air intake spots and same sizes as the original. Yet it did make more HP. So this is why it's reasonable to ask: "if it's not 'more cool air' that's making more HP...then what is?"

Showing a drawing of the M5 intake to explain how this intake works on the M3 is...well...silly. I'm certainly not in the naysayer camp because I have my own experiences to draw upon that showed some HP gains from the Gruppe-M. I'd just like to see the OP provide more technical data and a better review of the product...something better than "I've got it, I'm an independant, but won't tell you how it works until the development is done..."

If it does work as advertised, then it and the underdrive pulleys both will provide the best bang-for-the-buck. And at $129 MSRP, there's no real disadvantage to buying it -- even if it doesn't make a full 14hp on a (non-inertial) dyno.

More air is getting forced in, what do you mean? You can't make more power without more air.

The M3 has a cone, the M5 flat filter, it does work better with the M5. It still provides a benefit, at least it does in my personal experience.

I think the price is very relevant, who the hell wants the Gruppe M when you can get scoops, for what, 1/15 the cost?

[McLuVan]

long tran has some of these scoops
I guess you guys are saying he's crazy too?
I'm not saying we should buy w/e he buys
but he deals with these cars allllllllll the time
everyone with every mod comes to him
so I assume he knows what works/what doesn't what's bad/good
I'm sure he knew what they were before buying them......
I'm sure these work as tightie said

[tightie]

Originally Posted by McLuVan

long tran has some of these scoops
I guess you guys are saying he's crazy too?
I'm not saying we should buy w/e he buys
but he deals with these cars allllllllll the time
everyone with every mod comes to him
so I assume he knows what works/what doesn't what's bad/good
I'm sure he knew what they were before buying them......
I'm sure these work as tightie said

longtran has the d1scoops.. he copied rpi's first scoop that doesnt give it as much horsepower.. every angle can make you loose power or gain it..

me? i dont care to prove my self.. i'll let the product speak for itself when its done.. i stand by rpi and eloy.. im pretty sure many many people will too..

[tightie]

Originally Posted by Sticky

Crap, what is the difference between these scoops and the 335 scoops? Eloy installed the 335 ones for me and said these were the ones for the M3, same thing.

there wasn't.. he didnt have a m3 to work on so now hes making bigger scoops and a different angle.

more power!

[tightie]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

I don't know what you're reading into what I wrote...that would evoke that response. Let's assume we all know how they're supposed to work; and price is irrelevant...since the price doesn't help increase or decrease the measured HP. But there's nothing in the OP (or follow-up) that would indicate whether or not the intake provides extra cool air.

If it does provide extra cool air -- how? I'm convinced that the Gruppe-M doesn't provide ANY extra cool air -- since it uses the same exact air intake spots and same sizes as the original. Yet it did make more HP. So this is why it's reasonable to ask: "if it's not 'more cool air' that's making more HP...then what is?"

Showing a drawing of the M5 intake to explain how this intake works on the M3 is...well...silly. I'm certainly not in the naysayer camp because I have my own experiences to draw upon that showed some HP gains from the Gruppe-M. I'd just like to see the OP provide more technical data and a better review of the product...something better than "I've got it, I'm an independant, but won't tell you how it works until the development is done..."

If it does work as advertised, then it and the underdrive pulleys both will provide the best bang-for-the-buck. And at $129 MSRP, there's no real disadvantage to buying it -- even if it doesn't make a full 14hp on a (non-inertial) dyno.

Robert,
You should pick up the phone and speak to Eloy.. I honestly got way too confused with everything you said on here. I'm more then positive he will explain it. There is power from the scoops, it will be the best bang for the buck too..

Sorry.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by tightie

there wasn't.. he didnt have a m3 to work on so now hes making bigger scoops and a different angle.

more power!

So you are saying the current dyno you posted is of the same scoops I have, the 335 ones? There will be a different scoop design later on?

[BaLLzZz]

A great product. I dont know about those gains why are the kidneys removed? Definatly better for your air intake for any of the doubters. Don't know how thats not understandable.

[tightie]

Originally Posted by Sticky

So you are saying the current dyno you posted is of the same scoops I have, the 335 ones? There will be a different scoop design later on?

the dyno posted above is the v2.. not the same ones you have.. he made these infront of my eyes for my car.

[tightie]

Originally Posted by BaLLzZz

A great product. I dont know about those gains why are the kidneys removed? Definatly better for your air intake for any of the doubters. Don't know how thats not understandable.

The kidneys weren't in because we were test fitting the scoops... maybe one of the members that have the v1 can post some pictures..

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Let's not go down this road because a debate over irrelevancies is not productive and only serves to hurt RPI not help them.

Well, there was a diagram somewhere of the stock intake. All these scoops do is get more air into the stock pickup location. Basically, they just funnel air into the stock openings. Air is being "forced" in.

The gains show on the dyno and on my butt dyno. The real world gains are likely better than a fan on a dyno can achieve.

These scoops are well documented in the M5/M6 world.

Uh, thanks for the sarcasm but the M3 intake is cylindrical, not a flat filter. It goes all the way around with space inside, it isn't flat.

I don't even know where this comment showing up as your quote came from, but I think getting the facts straight helps everyone, it doesn't hurt anyone.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by tightie

the dyno posted above is the v2.. not the same ones you have.. he made these infront of my eyes for my car.

Well, guess I have to stop by RPI again soon

335 scoops for sale! I need to go get these by November 1st... I called out some MB's to drag race at california speedway on the 1st.