Took a Porsche 911 out today, God I love my M3

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Actually the 991 is easier to drive faster than the e92 m3 and especially the new m3/4. Its limits are so much higher as well that even at 8/10s driving a 991 its going to kill an e92 m3 and as we can see full on out, even a base 991 will destroy an m4 on track despite a huge power to weight advantage of the m4. The 911 is just such a much better balanced car.
And yes, the 991S is a MUCH faster car than an e9x m3. 119 mph trap speed for a 400 hp car isnt something any other manuf will come close to. The M4 is trapping close to that but we all know that cars making upwards of 100 hp more. And same day same test, the 991S traps the same as a C7 vette which has 60 more hp and well over 100 tq more.

Unless the Porsche has a drivetrain loss of only 8-9%, the 991S is also underated!
http://www.porsche**********/content...haust-pictures

And by the way, we've already seen +120mph traps from stock F8x!

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Brosef

wow, you just never stop with the BS. show me independent tests where the 991S traps 119. I can show you one where the M4 trapped over 120. So how is it that in your world the car that has consistently trapped higher is "close to" the 991S. get a life or a 991S already and quit posting all of your Porsche fanboyism around here. nobody cares.

As for the 119mph trap, a member here has ran 11,7@119mph with his completly stock 991S, can't remember who it was!

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Brosef

wow, you just never stop with the BS. show me independent tests where the 991S traps 119. I can show you one where the M4 trapped over 120. So how is it that in your world the car that has consistently trapped higher is "close to" the 991S. get a life or a 991S already and quit posting all of your Porsche fanboyism around here. nobody cares.

Really Brosef? How much faster was a BASE 991 than the M4 in the latest EVO?

1.4 seconds on a 1:15 lap is making an absolute mockery of the M4, which has far more hp, far more tq and a significantly better power to weight. LOL

And yes, there are REAL world times of 991S' trapping 119/120. Show me a real world time of the M4 trapping 120, not some mag BS time that was adjusted for perfect conditions.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...rag-strip.html

Theres also a guy on M3Post who did 119.5 mph.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...6&postcount=27

Again, show me a real world M4 doing that? even with them dyno'ing well over 400 hp I dont think youll see them since BMW has to put 'press tunes' on their cars for them to run what they do for mags but yet to see a real world time.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Really Brosef? How much faster was a BASE 991 than the M4 in the latest EVO?

1.4 seconds on a 1:15 lap is making an absolute mockery of the M4, which has far more hp, far more tq and a significantly better power to weight. LOL

And yes, there are REAL world times of 991S' trapping 119/120. Show me a real world time of the M4 trapping 120, not some mag BS time that was adjusted for perfect conditions.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...rag-strip.html

Theres also a guy on M3Post who did 119.X mph.

Show me a real world M4 doing that? even with them dyno'ing well over 400 hp I dont think youll see them since BMW has to put 'press tunes' on their cars.

your ADD is all over the place. are we debating lap times here or straight line performance? I mentioned the latter, but you jumped in with the former.

let me just put it this way - are you willing to bet that the 991S will post a higher trap speed than an M4? DCT vs. PDK, done on the same day by an independent test. I guarantee it's coming.

that's the only comparison I'm interested in seeing. I don't care about some outlier high-watermark result from one of your bros on 6speed - I find that data to be far less independent than an automotive journalist when it comes to objective performance data.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Brosef

your ADD is all over the place. are we debating lap times here or straight line performance? I mentioned the latter, but you jumped in with the former.

let me just put it this way - are you willing to bet that the 991S will post a higher trap speed than an M4? DCT vs. PDK, done on the same day by an independent test. I guarantee it's coming.

that's the only comparison I'm interested in seeing. I don't care about some outlier high-watermark result from one of your bros on 6speed - I find that data to be far less independent than an automotive journalist when it comes to objective performance data.

I dont know any of those individuals, so your point isnt valid.

Again, provide me true, real world results.

IDK what mag tested what M3/4 with a special tune BMW sent it with to be a ringer, same as the did the M5. Show me an actual owner getting anywhere close to 120 mph.

Many mags tested the e9x m3 at 112/113 mph yet I dont think I ever saw anything like that from a drag strip.

I was pointing out the track time to show you that an M4, BMWs best car cant keep pace with an entry level 911, and got absolutely trounced by it despite making nearly 100 more rwhp than the 911. Real speed is in the corners, which is why the M4 cant beat a base 911 let alone a Carrera S or anything above it where it really counts, on a track.

I find actual times to be much more valid, considering these are actual owners, and not some magazine with a ringer or adjusting 1/4 mile times for perfect conditions.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I dont know any of those individuals, so your point isnt valid.

Again, provide me true, real world results.

IDK what mag tested what M3/4 with a special tune BMW sent it with to be a ringer, same as the did the M5. Show me an actual owner getting anywhere close to 120 mph.

Many mags tested the e9x m3 at 112/113 mph yet I dont think I ever saw anything like that from a drag strip.

I was pointing out the track time to show you that an M4, BMWs best car cant keep pace with an entry level 911, and got absolutely trounced by it despite making nearly 100 more rwhp than the 911. Real speed is in the corners, which is why the M4 cant beat a base 911 let alone a Carrera S or anything above it where it really counts, on a track.

I find actual times to be much more valid, considering these are actual owners, and not some magazine with a ringer or adjusting 1/4 mile times for perfect conditions.

well, my point is that internet talk is cheap. for all I know, those other guys on 6speed could be you yourself. as I've been told, you've been banned from this forum at least once already. I have no reason to believe those posters haven't modified the car, didn't show somebody else's slip, or aren't in fact you. considering the amount of time you spend preaching the Porsche gospel on a BMW forum, it's perfectly conceivable that you would go to such lengths. but I digress.

if the only proof you need is one person's drag slip, I'm sure it will come. the car just hit the streets, and many are still within break-in. won't be much longer before we see drag slips showing people touching 120mph in the quarter. but I know there's going to be excuses from you (this car's a ringer, he's got a tune, the driver was a 5'2 jockey weighing only 100 lbs, or whatever other BS excuse you will undoubtedly pull from your ass). so I guess we all have those excuses to look forward to.

with regards to lap times, because that's what matters to you in this instance (although you flip flop more than John Kerry in a debate), the base Stingray has already proven to be a faster car around a track than a C2S. I don't disagree that the M4's loss of 1.4s was a beating over such a short lap. but a short lap will always favor the sports car of the two (i.e. the 911, which isn't burdened by the extra weight required to accommodate things like usable seating for 4, a trunk that fits more than two grocery bags, etc... you know, things that make the M4 actually a much more versatile car, as it was engineered to be). let me ask you this - what's the best Ring time achieved by the base 991?

there will be more tests, and I'm willing to bet that the gap between the two cars is not nearly as close as it was in this case. this round definitely goes to the Porsche, but there's more to come. but don't forget, these two cars really shouldn't be compared in the first place, and the fact that they are compared is just proof that the M4 punches well above its weight (which is what M cars have always done).

[Rambler]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Unless the Porsche has a drivetrain loss of only 8-9%, the 991S is also underated!
http://www.porsche**********/content...haust-pictures

And by the way, we've already seen +120mph traps from stock F8x!

Drivetrain loss is typically lower on a 911 since the engine sits so close to the driveline. I doubt it's anywhere near as underrated as the motor in the F82.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Brosef

well, my point is that internet talk is cheap. for all I know, those other guys on 6speed could be you yourself. as I've been told, you've been banned from this forum at least once already. I have no reason to believe those posters haven't modified the car, didn't show somebody else's slip, or aren't in fact you. considering the amount of time you spend preaching the Porsche gospel on a BMW forum, it's perfectly conceivable that you would go to such lengths. but I digress.

if the only proof you need is one person's drag slip, I'm sure it will come. the car just hit the streets, and many are still within break-in. won't be much longer before we see drag slips showing people touching 120mph in the quarter. but I know there's going to be excuses from you (this car's a ringer, he's got a tune, the driver was a 5'2 jockey weighing only 100 lbs, or whatever other BS excuse you will undoubtedly pull from your ass). so I guess we all have those excuses to look forward to.

with regards to lap times, because that's what matters to you in this instance (although you flip flop more than John Kerry in a debate), the base Stingray has already proven to be a faster car around a track than a C2S. I don't disagree that the M4's loss of 1.4s was a beating over such a short lap. but a short lap will always favor the sports car of the two (i.e. the 911, which isn't burdened by the extra weight required to accommodate things like usable seating for 4, a trunk that fits more than two grocery bags, etc... you know, things that make the M4 actually a much more versatile car, as it was engineered to be). let me ask you this - what's the best Ring time achieved by the base 991?

there will be more tests, and I'm willing to bet that the gap between the two cars is not nearly as close as it was in this case. this round definitely goes to the Porsche, but there's more to come. but don't forget, these two cars really shouldn't be compared in the first place, and the fact that they are compared is just proof that the M4 punches well above its weight (which is what M cars have always done).

Sorry but power to weight is usually the tell tale factor. And here, the m4 has a far better one. By actual weight by car and driver the m4 is 8.4 and the 911 over 9.0...and in actuality the m4 is likely closer to 8.0 based on it being severly underrated. So by the looks of it, the only car hitting above its weight class is the 911 as they always do. If the m4 hit above its weight class they be competing with more performance oriented cars than Porsche's lowest performance model. Hmmm...again bmws best vs Porsches worst and the porsche trounced it.

I doubt you'll see many more comparos of the 991S vs the m4 because it's a flat out superior car in every facet. But vs the base 911 you might see a few more...but the m4 will lose those too as it already has. I'm suspecting the m4 might be losing a few more to the OLD c63 too LOL.

Actually I see good reason to compare a base 991 vs and m4. Close in price and performance with the 911 being the far better drivers car, more race far in feel and precision and more of an experience to drive...not to mention it sounds fantastic and still has a high revving NA engine which can't be said for the m4.

As for the base 991 ring time, it is around what the 997.2S ran which is 7:50, and again beating the m4 despite a serious disadvantage in power to weight.

I mean even a 997.2S with 385 hp and over 6 years old is faster on the ring than the m4. But then again bmws cars have never been impressive on the ring despite the massive amounts of testing done there.

How was the gap close between the 991 and m4? 1.4 seconds on a sub 1:20 lap is annihilation and even that's an understatement.

I'm looking forward to seeing the m4 at the strip too. I've seen plenty of times for the 991S that it's running fast stock. I highly doubt the m4 stock will trap 120 or over.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Sorry but power to weight is usually the tell tale factor. And here, the m4 has a far better one. By actual weight by car and driver the m4 is 8.4 and the 911 over 9.0...and in actuality the m4 is likely closer to 8.0 based on it being severly underrated. So by the looks of it, the only car hitting above its weight class is the 911 as they always do. If the m4 hit above its weight class they be competing with more performance oriented cars than Porsche's lowest performance model. Hmmm...again bmws best vs Porsches worst and the porsche trounced it.

I doubt you'll see many more comparos of the 991S vs the m4 because it's a flat out superior car in every facet. But vs the base 911 you might see a few more...but the m4 will lose those too as it already has. I'm suspecting the m4 might be losing a few more to the OLD c63 too LOL.

Actually I see good reason to compare a base 991 vs and m4. Close in price and performance with the 911 being the far better drivers car, more race far in feel and precision and more of an experience to drive...not to mention it sounds fantastic and still has a high revving NA engine which can't be said for the m4.

As for the base 991 ring time, it is around what the 997.2S ran which is 7:50, and again beating the m4 despite a serious disadvantage in power to weight.

I mean even a 997.2S with 385 hp and over 6 years old is faster on the ring than the m4. But then again bmws cars have never been impressive on the ring despite the massive amounts of testing done there.

How was the gap close between the 991 and m4? 1.4 seconds on a sub 1:20 lap is annihilation and even that's an understatement.

I'm looking forward to seeing the m4 at the strip too. I've seen plenty of times for the 991S that it's running fast stock. I highly doubt the m4 stock will trap 120 or over. My guess is dct will be 116 and the manual several mph slower.

it's honestly pathetic how many data points are wrong in your post. I'm done here. enjoy the Porsche masturbation, but just remember that if you piss yourself, you're only gonna stay warm for so long.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Sorry but power to weight is usually the tell tale factor. And here, the m4 has a far better one. By actual weight by car and driver the m4 is 8.4 and the 911 over 9.0...and in actuality the m4 is likely closer to 8.0 based on it being severly underrated. So by the looks of it, the only car hitting above its weight class is the 911 as they always do. If the m4 hit above its weight class they be competing with more performance oriented cars than Porsche's lowest performance model. Hmmm...again bmws best vs Porsches worst and the porsche trounced it.I doubt you'll see many more comparos of the 991S vs the m4 because it's a flat out superior car in every facet. But vs the base 911 you might see a few more...but the m4 will lose those too as it already has. I'm suspecting the m4 might be losing a few more to the OLD c63 too LOL.

Actually I see good reason to compare a base 991 vs and m4. Close in price and performance with the 911 being the far better drivers car, more race far in feel and precision and more of an experience to drive...not to mention it sounds fantastic and still has a high revving NA engine which can't be said for the m4.

As for the base 991 ring time, it is around what the 997.2S ran which is 7:50, and again beating the m4 despite a serious disadvantage in power to weight.

I mean even a 997.2S with 385 hp and over 6 years old is faster on the ring than the m4. But then again bmws cars have never been impressive on the ring despite the massive amounts of testing done there.

How was the gap close between the 991 and m4? 1.4 seconds on a sub 1:20 lap is annihilation and even that's an understatement.

I'm looking forward to seeing the m4 at the strip too. I've seen plenty of times for the 991S that it's running fast stock. I highly doubt the m4 stock will trap 120 or over.

I thought the base Cayman was Porsches worst, and it's much closer in price to the M4 also(althought not nearly as practical), I thought a guy like you would have known!

And ain't the ring time of the M4 exactly that, 7:50?

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Actually the 991 is easier to drive faster than the e92 m3 and especially the new m3/4. Its limits are so much higher as well that even at 8/10s driving a 991 its going to kill an e92 m3 and as we can see full on out, even a base 991 will destroy an m4 on track despite a huge power to weight advantage of the m4. The 911 is just such a much better balanced car.
And yes, the 991S is a MUCH faster car than an e9x m3. 119 mph trap speed for a 400 hp car isnt something any other manuf will come close to. The M4 is trapping close to that but we all know that cars making upwards of 100 hp more. And same day same test, the 991S traps the same as a C7 vette which has 60 more hp and well over 100 tq more.

I was talking about previous generation.. But 991 is different i hear. Easier to drive at the limit. I would be driving new gt3 right now, if it wasnt so damn expensive.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

I was talking about previous generation.. But 991 is different i hear. Easier to drive at the limit. I would be driving new gt3 right now, if it wasnt so damn expensive.

991 is quite easy to drive at the limit. Much easier than the M4 was.

[F1Venom]

I'd take a Cayman S/GTS over the 991S and save myself $40k plus have the better drivers car.

[Ezio]

quick question for 911 guys here. Is there a aftermarket for the 911? is there exhaust setups with tunes, forced induction etc?

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Ezio

quick question for 911 guys here. Is there a aftermarket for the 911? is there exhaust setups with tunes, forced induction etc?

There is an aftermarket for Porsche, however, you just don't need it unless you are building a serious pure track car. Even then, you would be better off just getting a GT3 variant. Porsche cars are so capable and perfectly engineered out of the box, that you really don't want to mess with them. You can really get it very nicely tweaked with factory options if you want. Why would you want to add forced induction to a 911, when you can get a 911 turbo from the factory?

Comparing a Porsche to an M3/4 is silly IMO. The first is a pure sports car, detuned for the street. The second is a practical transport vehicle, that has been made as track capable as possible while still being practical. Totally different design philosophy.

And seriously....the mental masterbating over a few mph in the 1/4 mile, or a couple of seconds on a track is silly.

Unless you are in a race for money, all that matters is which car, everything considered, when actually driven, puts a bigger grin on your face. End of story. Too many people just don't see the forest through the trees. What's next? Dyno plots of intakes? !!

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Ezio

quick question for 911 guys here. Is there a aftermarket for the 911? is there exhaust setups with tunes, forced induction etc?

http://www.sharkwerks.com/main.php

http://www.evoms.com/Default.asp

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

I'd take a Cayman S/GTS over the 991S and save myself $40k plus have the better drivers car.

I agree. I am not even sure if 991S is that much faster or faster at all than Cayman GTS on the track.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

I agree. I am not even sure if 991S is that much faster or faster at all than Cayman GTS on the track.

All depends who is driving. If you are a seasoned 911S driver, I think you will be able to track it faster than a Cayman, however for even intermediate level track drivers, I think the balance and weight distribution would favor the Cayman S.

One shouldn't just think about which car is faster (if that is your goal), but rather, which car would be faster in your hands.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

There is an aftermarket for Porsche, however, you just don't need it unless you are building a serious pure track car. Even then, you would be better off just getting a GT3 variant. Porsche cars are so capable and perfectly engineered out of the box, that you really don't want to mess with them. You can really get it very nicely tweaked with factory options if you want. Why would you want to add forced induction to a 911, when you can get a 911 turbo from the factory?

Comparing a Porsche to an M3/4 is silly IMO. The first is a pure sports car, detuned for the street. The second is a practical transport vehicle, that has been made as track capable as possible while still being practical. Totally different design philosophy.

And seriously....the mental masterbating over a few mph in the 1/4 mile, or a couple of seconds on a track is silly.

Unless you are in a race for money, all that matters is which car, everything considered, when actually driven, puts a bigger grin on your face. End of story. Too many people just don't see the forest through the trees. What's next? Dyno plots of intakes? !!

the reason why is because i have always liked how i could buy a higher end German car like a any M car. IF i wanted i could build a pretty fast car. Like a putting a S/C on a M3.

that is one of the things stopping me from really waiting a 911.

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

There is an aftermarket for Porsche, however, you just don't need it unless you are building a serious pure track car. Even then, you would be better off just getting a GT3 variant. Porsche cars are so capable and perfectly engineered out of the box, that you really don't want to mess with them. You can really get it very nicely tweaked with factory options if you want. Why would you want to add forced induction to a 911, when you can get a 911 turbo from the factory?

Comparing a Porsche to an M3/4 is silly IMO. The first is a pure sports car, detuned for the street. The second is a practical transport vehicle, that has been made as track capable as possible while still being practical. Totally different design philosophy.

And seriously....the mental masterbating over a few mph in the 1/4 mile, or a couple of seconds on a track is silly.

Unless you are in a race for money, all that matters is which car, everything considered, when actually driven, puts a bigger grin on your face. End of story. Too many people just don't see the forest through the trees. What's next? Dyno plots of intakes? !!

+1

I just spent my day yesterday driving a new 991 c2 base and c2s back to back; both 7mt with PSE. The SA let me take them down some PA back roads and I had a friggen blast!! The base c2 had practically zero options, base suspension and all but it was so fun, even if down on power from my m3. I'd love the c2s (also pretty bare bones) it's just a little too out of reach ATM but now I'm really considering that base c2 since it was so fun and enjoyable.

NOTE: The drives did solidify just how awesome the e92 m3 is, though. I took my car down the same roads and had just as much fun.

Here's some pics: The black and silver cars are base c2's.. the Sapphire blue is the c2s. The turbo wheels look great on the c2(s).

IMAG0064 by jto24, on Flickr

IMAG0058 by jto24, on Flickr

IMAG0057 by jto24, on Flickr

[Dave07997S]

I have owned both a 997.1S as well as 2 E92 M3s now and I will say that the E92 M3 has much more visceral feel to it than the 997.1S. Mine was even modded with AWE 200cpi HJS cats, X51 headers, IPD plenum and Borla cans. The car put down almost 330rwhp, yet it still didn't feel as alive as my stock E92 M3 did.

The PCar is not a car you are going to go "wow" over right from the get go. Its like a fine wine that once you have it for awhile you realize what a great car it really is.

I test drove a new 991S when they were introduced and loved the car, just not enough where I would go another $40k in debt over a car for. If I had money to blow and I could buy the car outright, then maybe a different issue.

The car the OP tested was a 997.1S, not even a .2S which fixed quite a few of the issues of the 997.1S.

I hope to be in a position again to get another PCar and would definitely get a 991S.

I have to admit for those that compare a E92 M3 or even a new F8X to a GT3 is laughable. You could buy 2 M3s for a base GT3.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

All depends who is driving. If you are a seasoned 911S driver, I think you will be able to track it faster than a Cayman, however for even intermediate level track drivers, I think the balance and weight distribution would favor the Cayman S.

One shouldn't just think about which car is faster (if that is your goal), but rather, which car would be faster in your hands.

Agreed, you have to know how to use the rear engine to your advantage. You have to drive both cars in a completely different manner.

Dave