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      10-16-2013, 09:15 PM   #1
RS4now
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Supercharger comparisons?

I have been reading the threads but have not seen any true comparisons between options. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages but leaving price out for now which one is the all around winner for the average mostly street plus some limited track use? A true buyers guide would be nice, im sure each has its own advantage that someone may feel is more important but to find it or them isn't that obvious.
So for me I would like; a non engine taxing, intercooled, upgradeable later, reliable, proven low rpm hp gains. Which one would you choose? I see our offerings as the following in no particular order; Evolve, ESS, AA, gintani, the twin screw one whos name i cannot remember but starts with H. Im not trying to spark controversy or a company showdown. thanks
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      10-16-2013, 11:01 PM   #2
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No one?!?!
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      10-17-2013, 12:24 AM   #3
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Don't forget G Power. That is an awesome system. A bit pricey but you said to leave price out of it.

There have been lots of threads like this before and polls for the most important attributes (i.e. reliability, power, price, etc) to people when looking for an S/C system.
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      10-17-2013, 04:00 AM   #4
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One thing I see left out a lot is the required modifications to the car or difficulty of install. Some SC kits require much more modification to car than others. I would include this in your comparisons.
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      10-17-2013, 04:12 AM   #5
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There's a member here that has removed his ESS supercharger on his track M3 and gone faster. I'll try and find him.

I'd like a supercharger still though as I'd like more torque on the street, and better acceleration at the track. I just want to sacrifice as little throttle response and endurance of the engine as possible.


Maybe we could crowd fund the review through the forum. Or we could have a magazine or website fund it.

I'd like to see that it includes at least the following:

Forum members with cars from each of the supercharger kit houses meet a reputable independent workshop
The workshop conduct a thorough inspection and review of all of the systems and cars ensuring that they are in top working conduction
The workshop dynos all cars in a strictly controlled environment
A professional driver drives each of them around a proper circuit in time trials
Videos made of the whole thing for all to see
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      10-17-2013, 11:38 AM   #6
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They are all the same thing. They use the same type of blower, a heat exchanger and give or take different piping. They do the same thing with the same result. Especially with things like throttle response etc.
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      10-17-2013, 11:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonb View Post
There's a member here that has removed his ESS supercharger on his track M3 and gone faster. I'll try and find him.

I'd like a supercharger still though as I'd like more torque on the street, and better acceleration at the track. I just want to sacrifice as little throttle response and endurance of the engine as possible.


Maybe we could crowd fund the review through the forum. Or we could have a magazine or website fund it.

I'd like to see that it includes at least the following:

Forum members with cars from each of the supercharger kit houses meet a reputable independent workshop
The workshop conduct a thorough inspection and review of all of the systems and cars ensuring that they are in top working conduction
The workshop dynos all cars in a strictly controlled environment
A professional driver drives each of them around a proper circuit in time trials
Videos made of the whole thing for all to see
The member is RadiantM3. He had a VT1 535 kit that he did not like while tracking.

Your idea would be great but in terms of track times your going to need cars that are identical if the purpose is to evaluate the SC. Same suspension, alignment, weight, transmission, tires, exhaust, x-pipe and aerodynamics.

I think RadiantM3 complained about the throttle response on the track with his ESS kit. From my perspective my throttle response is much better with the ESS kit than it was stock. That being said, I went from a completely stock car with no tune to a ESS SC with ESS tune. I am not sure if RadiantM3 went from NA w/Tune to ESS SC w/tune.

In the end, being a better driver is always going to beat out expensive modifications if your a novice. If you are looking to truly compete in club racing, money is probably better spent on track schools and tires.
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      10-17-2013, 12:12 PM   #8
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Evolve, ESS, AA, Gintani, and G-Power are all good and am excited to see that Evolve is doing extremely well with their new kit.

But realistically, you live in Chicago so ESS would be the most logical brand for you since IND sells/installs them. This may be biased since I sent my car to them but I wanted to ensure that whatever kit I got was installed correctly. Unless there is an experienced installer for the other brands in Chicago, I'd just go with ESS.

If I lived in Miami or close to it, I would most likely have gone the AA route.

A good product is great by itself but if you're able to get exceptional (local) service with that product, that would ideal.
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      10-17-2013, 12:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budski View Post
Evolve, ESS, AA, Gintani, and G-Power are all good and am excited to see that Evolve is doing extremely well with their new kit.

But realistically, you live in Chicago so ESS would be the most logical brand for you since IND sells/installs them. This may be biased since I sent my car to them but I wanted to ensure that whatever kit I got was installed correctly. Unless there is an experienced installer for the other brands in Chicago, I'd just go with ESS.

If I lived in Miami or close to it, I would most likely have gone the AA route.

A good product is great by itself but if you're able to get exceptional (local) service with that product, that would ideal.



I totally agree. But, but If location was not a factor which is best? I don't need or necessarily want the "best" but still want to know which one it is.
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      10-17-2013, 12:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS4now View Post
I totally agree. But, but If location was not a factor which is best? I don't need or necessarily want the "best" but still want to know which one it is.
Unfortunately, no one knows the "best" as I don't think there are many cases where people have switched from one brand to another (minus VF->ESS) and could compare them side by side.

I know this isn't the answer you want but no one can definitively tell you one kit is better than the other. You'll just have to search all the other threads similar to this one and gather tidbits of information to come up with your own conclusion.
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      10-17-2013, 01:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS4now View Post
I totally agree. But, but If location was not a factor which is best? I don't need or necessarily want the "best" but still want to know which one it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by budski View Post
Unfortunately, no one knows the "best" as I don't think there are many cases where people have switched from one brand to another (minus VF->ESS) and could compare them side by side.

I know this isn't the answer you want but no one can definitively tell you one kit is better than the other. You'll just have to search all the other threads similar to this one and gather tidbits of information to come up with your own conclusion.
+1

The different kits are have subtle differences. The AA kits use air to air intercooling vice air to water heat exchangers which is a significant difference. Most experts would probably say air to air intercoolers are more efficient than a liquid heat exchanger but both have been proven on the M3. That being said, the VT1 ESS kits have been shown to produce reliable power with out any intercooling despite heat soak. The same is probably true for the VF 540 kits.

For me, I would go with the least invasive kit to install with the most reliable tuning (a huge factor). Meaning, the kit that requires the least modification to the cars organic and difficult to replace parts. Again, my suggestion would be to look at the different installation manuals and compare the level of modification required. This factor is often left out and, for me, is certainly important.
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      10-17-2013, 02:07 PM   #12
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Don't forget VF makes kits. Very similar to ESS design wise
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      10-17-2013, 02:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnydashore View Post
They are all the same thing. They use the same type of blower, a heat exchanger and give or take different piping. They do the same thing with the same result. Especially with things like throttle response etc.
They are not all the same-

Several kits offer 1 specific supercharger, the other 2 offer a different one;
as well as different cooling strategies.

The 3 Vortech based kits use air-water heat exchangers.

The 2 Rotrex (or HKS) based kits use air-air intercoolers.

If your intentions are not biased in asking which is "best" there is no answer for ANYONE to provide you.

Your best solution is to research the 2 different cooling strategies and draw your own conclusion as to which YOU prefer, as it relates to the events that you will use the car for.

From there you should research the characteristics of each supercharger (Vortech vs Rotrex) as each are already optimized to provide equal power for the boost OEM S65's will see.

Then you will have the knowledge make an informed decision.
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      10-17-2013, 03:37 PM   #14
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Good thread.

What would be a really good idea is if all the manufacturers actually explained their kits in detail from individual component design, why they chose the blowers, why they chose the cooling strategies, talking about the tuning and what actual modifications are required to the car.

We did a thread in the past with some images of the components and have a specific website on the subject. VF just did a thread about their manifold design.

This would give everyone the in depth detail of every kit.

I really like the way this thread is remaining very civil and I hope it stays that way.
As we all know, supercharger threads can be somewhat .... volatile :-)
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      10-17-2013, 03:50 PM   #15
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They all suck squeeze bang blow...

+1 for Sal...civil!
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      10-17-2013, 06:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
+1

The different kits are have subtle differences. The AA kits use air to air intercooling vice air to water heat exchangers which is a significant difference. Most experts would probably say air to air intercoolers are more efficient than a liquid heat exchanger but both have been proven on the M3. That being said, the VT1 ESS kits have been shown to produce reliable power with out any intercooling despite heat soak. The same is probably true for the VF 540 kits.

For me, I would go with the least invasive kit to install with the most reliable tuning (a huge factor). Meaning, the kit that requires the least modification to the cars organic and difficult to replace parts. Again, my suggestion would be to look at the different installation manuals and compare the level of modification required. This factor is often left out and, for me, is certainly important.

Now we are getting somewhere, these are the ideas and bits of info I or we need. I too would be interested in knowing which is the least invasive. Im sure all kits are great, honestly. what I need is algorithm and arrows just like the CPR one the American Heart assoc puts out.
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      10-17-2013, 10:28 PM   #17
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      10-17-2013, 10:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnydashore
They are all the same thing. They use the same type of blower, a heat exchanger and give or take different piping. They do the same thing with the same result. Especially with things like throttle response etc.
Yep. Kits built around certain supercharger systems. The only other parts are just a bunch of material and a tune i guess.
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      10-17-2013, 10:31 PM   #19
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And the you have the blown motors whereby owner is not allowed to make public via nondisclosure agreement. At least you get a refund!
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      10-18-2013, 12:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashman View Post
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