They're So Pretty!! - My new ST-40 Front Kit

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by yandy

were you at Homestead this weekend? I passed by, but didn't who you were. There were 3 MR M3s there counting mine. Mine and another in the parking area just spectating it seems, and one in the PITs, running.

When I passed by the pits, there was no-one there. Not sure if you're going to PBIR this weekend, if not will catch you later.

Yes sir, that was me on the pits No I can't come up this weekend

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

They look so good I couldn't resist the temptation from looking at the OP's pics, I just ordered a set for mine today, went with the ST-60 front, ST-40 rear on red to go with my MR, I can't wait

Just curious, what prompted you to get a rear brake upgrade? Do you just want it for the easy pad swaps or aesthetics? It's not common on these cars to upgrade the rears, nor is it necessary to do so in order to maintain brake balance. Check out this page on StopTech's own site: http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...brake-upgrades.

I read that and said to myself, "Well if StopTech is telling me NOT to give them an extra $2300 and that I'd actually SAVE weight on the rears by not doing so, that seems like a win-win to me...." I run their Street Performance pads in the rear on both the street and track (PFC 08s in the front on the track) and don't have any issues, so easier pad swaps in the rear is basically moot for me.

Btw, where did you buy from? I got my ST-60 kit from HP Autowerks, a vendor on here. Harold the owner has consistently provided great customer service and been very knowledgeable answering questions about things I've bought from him, and he often has the best online prices I've found anywhere: www.hpashop.com.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Just curious, what prompted you to get a rear brake upgrade? Do you just want it for the easy pad swaps or aesthetics? It's not common on these cars to upgrade the rears, nor is it necessary to do so in order to maintain brake balance. Check out this page on StopTech's own site: http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...brake-upgrades.

I read that and said to myself, "Well if StopTech is telling me NOT to give them an extra $2300 and that I'd actually SAVE weight on the rears by not doing so, that seems like a win-win to me...." I run their Street Performance pads in the rear on both the street and track (PFC 08s in the front on the track) and don't have any issues, so easier pad swaps in the rear is basically moot for me.

Btw, where did you buy from? I got my ST-60 kit from HP Autowerks, a vendor on here. Harold the owner has consistently provided great customer service and been very knowledgeable answering questions about things I've bought from him, and he often has the best online prices I've found anywhere: www.hpashop.com.

He cant swap pads between st-60 and st-40 kits

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

He cant swap pads between st-60 and st-40 kits

i read it as easy pad swaps using the bridge on the rears to change pads not that you can go front to rear.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

He cant swap pads between st-60 and st-40 kits

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

i read it as easy pad swaps using the bridge on the rears to change pads not that you can go front to rear.

Exactly. The only real benefit I can see of upgrading the rears is if you want to speed up pad swaps compared to the OEM caliper -- but that's a whole lot of cash to spend to make some pad swaps easier, not to mention the extra weight you're adding. Then again there are people on here who buy the super-expensive Brembo kit on all four corners, complete with calipers custom-painted for their body color, even though they have no intention of tracking the car; they just want the Brembos because "they look bad ass".

[Porschefile]

Rear's are just for looks... not that there's anything wrong with that.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Exactly. The only real benefit I can see of upgrading the rears is if you want to speed up pad swaps compared to the OEM caliper -- but that's a whole lot of cash to spend to make some pad swaps easier, not to mention the extra weight you're adding. Then again there are people on here who buy the super-expensive Brembo kit on all four corners, complete with calipers custom-painted for their body color, even though they have no intention of tracking the car; they just want the Brembos because "they look bad ass".

Upgrading the rear to a BBK is a huge benefit in handling. Just trailbrake once without the rear BBK and you'll know.

Not to mention you'll tear through rear pads faster with a front BBK.

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Upgrading the rear to a BBK is a huge benefit in handling. Just trailbrake once without the rear BBK and you'll know.

Not to mention you'll tear through rear pads faster with a front BBK.

I'm guessing you don't have ST brakes? I have no issues at all trailbraking, and the article above (posted by ST, for christsake) says bias is unaffected and rears are not really advantageous for track use.

There are full-tilt racecars running stock brakes rear and bbk front.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

I'm guessing you don't have ST brakes? I have no issues at all trailbraking, and the article above (posted by ST, for christsake) says bias is unaffected and rears are not really advantageous for track use.

There are full-tilt racecars running stock brakes rear and bbk front.

I do have an ST BBK on 2 cars. I've also read this article and my interpretation is that Stop Tech is not saying that rear brakes are never advantageous. I also interpret that discussion on the data and theory behind the brakes which does not really discuss the advantages that I'm describing. I've driven an E46 with a front only ST BBK and a 4 wheel ST BBK.

Unless there was something else that I'm missing I observed a significant improvement in the car's stability under threshold braking and trail braking by adding the rear BBK.

Based on my interpretation of your comment that would lead me to believe that unless you have a thermal issue on the front axle...you don't need a BBK there either. I've seen race cars with OEM brakes on all 4 axles so does that mean I do not need a BBK? I always question the "because racecar" argument.

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Upgrading the rear to a BBK is a huge benefit in handling. Just trailbrake once without the rear BBK and you'll know.

Not to mention you'll tear through rear pads faster with a front BBK.

This guys is one of the reasons why I decided to go with rears too, the other reason was to complete the look and easier pad swap

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Btw, where did you buy from? I got my ST-60 kit from HP Autowerks, a vendor on here. Harold the owner has consistently provided great customer service and been very knowledgeable answering questions about things I've bought from him, and he often has the best online prices I've found anywhere: www.hpashop.com.

Velos Designwerks had the best price on these hands down. They basically told me "Let us know when you get all the quotes and which one you want us to beat" and they did by a pretty good amount. I just couldn't resist. They're only 15 min away from me so that was another plus.

[yandy]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

Velos Designwerks had the best price on these hands down, They basically told me "Let us know when you get all the quotes and which one you want us to beat" and they did by a pretty good amount. I just couldn't resist. They're only 15 min away from me so that was another plus.

+1 one on this, Omar was great to work with.

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Based on my interpretation of your comment that would lead me to believe that unless you have a thermal issue on the front axle...you don't need a BBK there either. I've seen race cars with OEM brakes on all 4 axles so does that mean I do not need a BBK? I always question the "because racecar" argument.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I am just saying that I have not noticed any problems trailbraking with the ST fronts and stock rears on my E92. I got my bbk because the stock brakes vibrate (I think it has something to do with the calipers being floating, but I am not certain) and because the stock brakes rip through pads by staying super hot.

I guess different drivers and driving styles can have different results with the same mods. I just interpret the ST article to be saying that they worked hard to not change F/R bias with front only bbk.

No "because racecar" arguments from me... No amount of money can make the M3 feel like a well set up open wheel car.

[yandy]

Because race-car wins every argument! no? damn! I've been lied to

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

I'm not saying you're wrong, I am just saying that I have not noticed any problems trailbraking with the ST fronts and stock rears on my E92. I got my bbk because the stock brakes vibrate (I think it has something to do with the calipers being floating, but I am not certain) and because the stock brakes rip through pads by staying super hot.

I guess different drivers and driving styles can have different results with the same mods. I just interpret the ST article to be saying that they worked hard to not change F/R bias with front only bbk.

No "because racecar" arguments from me... No amount of money can make the M3 feel like a well set up open wheel car.

Probably the biggest difference is I've only driven cars with ABS...that could account for the trail braking comment. I would imagine that you have driven cars w/o ABS.

The one benefit with the ST BBK is you don't NEED a rear BBK...I agree. But the benefits go well beyond easy pad changes (you didn't say that).

[yandy]

What a day and night difference at the track today. No fade, lap after lap, can probably push the braking zone a bit more. Best of all, PADs look like new, on stock calipers they would've probably been near gone by now.

If you track your car more than once a year, this is a must, I can see it paying for itself in the long run.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by yandy

What a day and night difference at the track today. No fade, lap after lap, can probably push the braking zone a bit more. Best of all, PADs look like new, on stock calipers they would've probably been near gone by now.

If you track your car more than once a year, this is a must, I can see it paying for itself in the long run.

What's up with all of this money saving talk? There can only be one forum cheapa$$ and that's me!

Glad you liked them!

[admranger]

Originally Posted by yandy

What a day and night difference at the track today. No fade, lap after lap, can probably push the braking zone a bit more. Best of all, PADs look like new, on stock calipers they would've probably been near gone by now.

If you track your car more than once a year, this is a must, I can see it paying for itself in the long run.

Did you find any problem with knock back on the pads or was the pedal firm from the start? I've heard that if the hub or rotor aren't perfectly true, then the pads get knocked back in a bit and the first application of the brakes can have a long pedal throw.

Glad you liked them!

[yandy]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

What's up with all of this money saving talk? There can only be one forum cheapa$$ and that's me!

Glad you liked them!

LMAO, my bad sir, I did not mean to intrude

Originally Posted by admranger

Did you find any problem with knock back on the pads or was the pedal firm from the start? I've heard that if the hub or rotor aren't perfectly true, then the pads get knocked back in a bit and the first application of the brakes can have a long pedal throw.

Glad you liked them!

I had a bit of an similar issue, the first session, but not sure if it was that or just not bedded in properly. TooK some time during that session to bed them in again, and pedal was rock solid the entire way.

I'm not exactly sure though, I was looking for signs of fluid boiling (Motul 660). All I know is that after that, pedal was solid, so maybe a bit of both.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by yandy

LMAO, my bad sir, I did not mean to intrude



I had a bit of an similar issue, the first session, but not sure if it was that or just not bedded in properly. TooK some time during that session to bed them in again, and pedal was rock solid the entire way.

I'm not exactly sure though, I was looking for signs of fluid boiling (Motul 660). All I know is that after that, pedal was solid, so maybe a bit of both.

Did you use Pagids? I found them very touchy on how they are bedded in.

[yandy]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Did you use Pagids? I found them very touchy on how they are bedded in.

Yup, I was using RS29 front and RS19 rear.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by yandy

Yup, I was using RS29 front and RS19 rear.

I dont think you can bed those pads on the track in traffic. If you dont follow very weird bedding procedure recommended by Pagid, they are useless. I didnt know that when i used them for the first time, bedded them my way, which pretty much ruined my track weekend.