09 E92 M3, recently purchased. Been at the dealer for almost 2 mos. now. Need advice.

Diecast · 02-20-2013, 02:54 PM

Well...

Just got back from the dealership, and thought I would have some good news to post. However, they replaced the transmission again (3rd time), and it is still making the same noises. My service rep said that they contacted BMW NA and they said to order yet another transmission, and try for a fourth attempt? This has to be a record breaker for transmission counts in a production E92.

I took some detailed photos of my car, and noticed my left rear wheel was pumped back up, but my wheel has curb rash on it. I took detailed photos of the car, which clearly show my wheels were perfect when I brought it in. Also, my M3 was also religiously detailed by myself. I had just cleaned the car, and wheels, 2 days before bringing it in. After inspecting the car, I noticed a more then usual amount of brake dust on all 4 of my wheels, so I am assuming they put some miles on it for testing.

Anyhow, thought I would vent here and update everyone. Hopefully this all ends with smile on my face, because I am pretty bummed at the moment....

I can't find myself to get angry with the dealership (other then my wheel, and car sitting outside), since my service rep and the technician both do not understand BMW's response to all of this, and per there words - they have to what BMW NA requests them to do.

thekurgan · 02-20-2013, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diecast

Well...

Just got back from the dealership, and thought I would have some good news to post. However, they replaced the transmission again (3rd time), and it is still making the same noises. My service rep said that they contacted BMW NA and they said to order yet another transmission, and try for a fourth attempt? This has to be a record breaker for transmission counts in a production E92.

I took some detailed photos of my car, and noticed my left rear wheel was pumped back up, but my wheel has curb rash on it. I took detailed photos of the car, which clearly show my wheels were perfect when I brought it in. Also, my M3 was also religiously detailed by myself. I had just cleaned the car, and wheels, 2 days before bringing it in. After inspecting the car, I noticed a more then usual amount of brake dust on all 4 of my wheels, so I am assuming they put some miles on it for testing.

Anyhow, thought I would vent here and update everyone. Hopefully this all ends with smile on my face, because I am pretty bummed at the moment....

I can't find myself to get angry with the dealership (other then my wheel, and car sitting outside), since my service rep and the technician both do not understand BMW's response to all of this, and per there words - they have to what BMW NA requests them to do.

Do you have any videos or sound clips of this noise? The tranny makes quite a bit of noises and are considered normal.

If it were me, and the dealer didn't take care of it after the 2nd transmission, I'd want them to tow it at their expense to a mechanic who knows what they're doing and won't fuck up your car.

I'd still take a rubber hose to whomever is responsible for letting your new car rot outside.

CSBM5 · 02-20-2013, 03:17 PM

This is beyond insane. IMO *all* of these transmissions have been fine. They will waste time and expense on yet doing it one more time *unless* they change something else (adding a variable) also. I suggested in my post up above that this would be the outcome, and it will again be the outcome unless they change the flywheel/clutch as dual mass flywheels, once they start to wear in some (the spring/damper within the flywheel), can begin to allow some "rollover" noise from the transmission. This is totally normal. Study up on what rollover noise is, so you can have a conversation with them. They are wasting their time, their money and specifically your time and time value of money throwing all these transmissions at the car.

Diecast · 02-20-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Do you have any videos or sound clips of this noise? The tranny makes quite a bit of noises and are considered normal.

If it were me, and the dealer didn't take care of it after the 2nd transmission, I'd want them to tow it at their expense to a mechanic who knows what they're doing and won't fuck up your car.

I'd still take a rubber hose to whomever is responsible for letting your new car rot outside.

I asked the service about my options on taking the car as is, and they said that it really isn't an option at this point and that if I did take the car "as is", then I would have sign a waiver on my warranty for the transmission. Which is something I will not do.

Please keep in mind, that I didn't initially bring my M in for a simple noise with the transmission. I just happened to question it with the service rep, when I brought the car in for maintenance and other warranty work. Little did I know, it would have turned into this....

Diecast · 02-20-2013, 03:38 PM

CSBM5,

Thanks for your post. I am going to forward this info them. Since they had both an Master BMW tech, and M factory tech come and look at my car, I never thought of questioning there intelligence regarding this matter. Also because I believed its in there best interest to fix the car correctly and in the most time effective way - since they're paying for it as well...

Again, thanks everyone for your posts. Any other info and support posted, is much appreciated by my Wife and I.

rantarM3 · 02-20-2013, 05:35 PM

It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard - to replace the tranny 4 times. Ask yourself if you trust them to detail it too. I would never let the dealer detail my car. I went through something similar with an E46 M3 - squeaky clutch, replacement of a bunch of parts (some more than once), and never got fixed. Car only got more and more damage each time it went in. In the end the shifting was rougher, grinding, and clutch did not fully disengage. Got rid of the car and the headache. You need to be very firm with these guys and have them stop hitting their heads against a brick wall.

Listen to CSBM5.

WillC310 · 02-20-2013, 05:42 PM

Lemon it and get a different car.

MrGroup · 02-20-2013, 06:22 PM

Don't they say that repeating the same action and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Brother, you are one of the most laid back Zen masters I've seen on this forum in a while. You are going to live a long time my friend.

I'm not a lawyer but is there no legal recourse here? They can just hold your car hostage and continue to repeat this over and over? I can't imagine if I pulled this on one of my patients. How many trannys will it take for you to say enough is enough? I think you should decide that now before this continues on ad infinitum.

info@trinityautosport · 02-20-2013, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGroup

Brother, you are one of the most laid back Zen masters I've seen on this forum in a while.

+1. OP good luck. looking forward to hearing your updates. personally I would lemon the car.

Race_Doc11 · 02-20-2013, 08:52 PM

Is it similar to this noise? If yes it is the Vanos...

Darth One · 02-20-2013, 08:58 PM

does lemon law cover cars bought used?

darnelld · 02-20-2013, 09:23 PM

man, hope this works out. Hang in there.

fun2bmw · 02-20-2013, 10:36 PM

Hope it works out, with good news to update.

socalm3lover · 02-21-2013, 10:13 AM

OP, I have read the "advice" you have been given. I suggest you consider that more than just the dealer is involved and to remember that they have flown in techs, replaced transmissions, etc at BMW's cost on a 3 year old used car. To me it means that they think there is a problem and they are obviously trying to fix it. They are not making money from this, they are not doing it for fun…., it is costing them plenty to try to fix your car. Second guessing the dealer mechanics is one thing, but second guessing the techs from Germany makes little sense. They could be wrong, but what are the chances? The "keyboard warriors" always want others to fight….., seldom constructive.

I would agree that on the surface, multiple replacements with the same result does not make sense, but this is based on what little we know on this forum. The people spending all the money designed and built these cars. The techs answering to someone and they surely know more than us. Even BMW is not going to waste this much on a customer car without thinking it is the thing to do.

For the "don't make payments, etc" crowd, keep in mind that the dealer is providing a loaner that I assume is free of charge. I understand that it is frustrating, and getting some consideration for the trouble is not unreasonable, but being reasonable, as you have is your best course. First, let them fix your car. When it is fixed, it is an incredible car.

Keep us posted and good luck.

John

JoM3z · 02-21-2013, 10:58 AM

Patience is a virtue, but don't be taken for a sucker. 4 times replacing your transmission is unheard of. At this point I would Scream LEMON and have them replace the car. Granted circumstances are different with each situation, but they had this car for far too long and it's not like it is garaged and kept clean. Time for being nice is over, demand some resolution in the next month or weeks...

socalm3lover · 02-21-2013, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoM3z

Patience is a virtue, but don't be taken for a sucker. 4 times replacing your transmission is unheard of. At this point I would Scream LEMON and have them replace the car. Granted circumstances are different with each situation, but they had this car for far too long and it's not like it is garaged and kept clean. Time for being nice is over, demand some resolution in the next month or weeks...

I can understand the frustration but can a 2009, used vehicle be "lemoned"?

John

thekurgan · 02-21-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalm3lover

Second guessing the dealer mechanics is one thing, but second guessing the techs from Germany makes little sense. They could be wrong, but what are the chances? The "keyboard warriors" always want others to fight….., seldom constructive.

Dealerships are notorious about lying when it comes to having "techs from Germany" on site. I find it highly improbably that this was true in this case, esp with an '09.

JoM3z · 02-21-2013, 11:21 AM

I know for a fact, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico and New York have newly passed lemon laws. The new laws provide statutory used car warranty, this is mainly based on the mileage and age of the vehicle. For example, If the car produces the same problems during the warranty period, BMW is given a chance to repair them. They have several tries to fix the problem and if it doesn't work after several attempts, the dealer must replace the car or refund the buyer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalm3lover

I can understand the frustration but can a 2009, used vehicle be "lemoned"?

John

dmw16 · 02-21-2013, 11:35 AM

This is nuts. OP is truly a patient man. I'd have bought an RV and setup shop in the dealer's parking lot by now.

socalm3lover · 02-21-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Dealerships are notorious about lying when it comes to having "techs from Germany" on site. I find it highly improbably that this was true in this case, esp with an '09.

Well, it is the same car as currently produced, and will probably be the same 6-spd with the new M3/4. I would not think BMW would let the dealer replace 3 or 4 transmissions without them being very involved.

John

thekurgan · 02-21-2013, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalm3lover

Well, it is the same car as currently produced, and will probably be the same 6-spd with the new M3/4. I would not think BMW would let the dealer replace 3 or 4 transmissions without them being very involved.

John

I have my doubts about the number of transmissions actually attempted here as well. OP hasn't seen these receipts, let alone the actual units. Let's hope he gets it all worked out.

pseto · 02-21-2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekurgan

I have my doubts about the number of transmissions actually attempted here as well. OP hasn't seen these receipts, let alone the actual units. Let's hope he gets it all worked out.

BMWNA has plenty of remanufactured transmissions that they'll swap out when needed. Hopefully no one thought that new ones were being used.

02-20-2013, 02:54 PM	#23
Diecast Banned 7 Rep 74 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: So Cal iTrader: (0)	Well... Just got back from the dealership, and thought I would have some good news to post. However, they replaced the transmission again (3rd time), and it is still making the same noises. My service rep said that they contacted BMW NA and they said to order yet another transmission, and try for a fourth attempt? This has to be a record breaker for transmission counts in a production E92. I took some detailed photos of my car, and noticed my left rear wheel was pumped back up, but my wheel has curb rash on it. I took detailed photos of the car, which clearly show my wheels were perfect when I brought it in. Also, my M3 was also religiously detailed by myself. I had just cleaned the car, and wheels, 2 days before bringing it in. After inspecting the car, I noticed a more then usual amount of brake dust on all 4 of my wheels, so I am assuming they put some miles on it for testing. Anyhow, thought I would vent here and update everyone. Hopefully this all ends with smile on my face, because I am pretty bummed at the moment.... I can't find myself to get angry with the dealership (other then my wheel, and car sitting outside), since my service rep and the technician both do not understand BMW's response to all of this, and per there words - they have to what BMW NA requests them to do. Last edited by Diecast; 02-20-2013 at 03:05 PM..
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02-20-2013, 03:17 PM	#25
CSBM5 Brigadier General 2717 Rep 3,329 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Comp, 2011 M3, etc Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Greenville, SC iTrader: (2)	This is beyond insane. IMO all of these transmissions have been fine. They will waste time and expense on yet doing it one more time unless they change something else (adding a variable) also. I suggested in my post up above that this would be the outcome, and it will again be the outcome unless they change the flywheel/clutch as dual mass flywheels, once they start to wear in some (the spring/damper within the flywheel), can begin to allow some "rollover" noise from the transmission. This is totally normal. Study up on what rollover noise is, so you can have a conversation with them. They are wasting their time, their money and specifically your time and time value of money throwing all these transmissions at the car. __________________ Current Stable: 2024 G20 M340i Melbourne Red/Cognac 2019 F87 M2 Competition 6MT, LBB, slicktop, exec pkg 2007 E91 328i Silver, slushbox, Eibach fr/E93 M3 rear sway bars, ARC-8
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02-20-2013, 03:38 PM	#27
Diecast Banned 7 Rep 74 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: So Cal iTrader: (0)	CSBM5, Thanks for your post. I am going to forward this info them. Since they had both an Master BMW tech, and M factory tech come and look at my car, I never thought of questioning there intelligence regarding this matter. Also because I believed its in there best interest to fix the car correctly and in the most time effective way - since they're paying for it as well... Again, thanks everyone for your posts. Any other info and support posted, is much appreciated by my Wife and I.
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02-20-2013, 05:35 PM	#28
rantarM3 Captain 205 Rep 729 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Florida iTrader: (3)	It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard - to replace the tranny 4 times. Ask yourself if you trust them to detail it too. I would never let the dealer detail my car. I went through something similar with an E46 M3 - squeaky clutch, replacement of a bunch of parts (some more than once), and never got fixed. Car only got more and more damage each time it went in. In the end the shifting was rougher, grinding, and clutch did not fully disengage. Got rid of the car and the headache. You need to be very firm with these guys and have them stop hitting their heads against a brick wall. Listen to CSBM5.
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02-20-2013, 05:42 PM	#29
WillC310 Lieutenant 44 Rep 506 Posts Drives: A car Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Planet Earth iTrader: (0)	Lemon it and get a different car.
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02-20-2013, 06:22 PM	#30
MrGroup Enlisted Member 5 Rep 49 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 6MT Join Date: May 2011 Location: San Antonio iTrader: (0)	Don't they say that repeating the same action and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Brother, you are one of the most laid back Zen masters I've seen on this forum in a while. You are going to live a long time my friend. I'm not a lawyer but is there no legal recourse here? They can just hold your car hostage and continue to repeat this over and over? I can't imagine if I pulled this on one of my patients. How many trannys will it take for you to say enough is enough? I think you should decide that now before this continues on ad infinitum.
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02-20-2013, 08:52 PM	#32
Race_Doc11 Lieutenant Colonel 458 Rep 1,633 Posts Drives: 2023 G82 M4 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: USA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2023 BMW G82 M4 [0.00] 2018 F80 M3 [10.00] 2013 Audi RS5 (Sold) [10.00] 2008 E93 M3 (Sold) [10.00]	Is it similar to this noise? If yes it is the Vanos... Last edited by Race_Doc11; 02-20-2013 at 09:29 PM..
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02-20-2013, 08:58 PM	#33
Darth One drunk poster 6613 Rep 3,649 Posts Drives: M4 GTS \| E46 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	does lemon law cover cars bought used?
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02-20-2013, 09:23 PM	#34
darnelld Private First Class 4 Rep 110 Posts Drives: 2006 Mystic Blue ZCP E46 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: San Jose, CA iTrader: (0)	man, hope this works out. Hang in there.
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02-20-2013, 10:36 PM	#35
fun2bmw New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: UDM Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Hope it works out, with good news to update.
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02-21-2013, 10:13 AM	#36
socalm3lover Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 226 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Carolina iTrader: (0)	OP, I have read the "advice" you have been given. I suggest you consider that more than just the dealer is involved and to remember that they have flown in techs, replaced transmissions, etc at BMW's cost on a 3 year old used car. To me it means that they think there is a problem and they are obviously trying to fix it. They are not making money from this, they are not doing it for fun…., it is costing them plenty to try to fix your car. Second guessing the dealer mechanics is one thing, but second guessing the techs from Germany makes little sense. They could be wrong, but what are the chances? The "keyboard warriors" always want others to fight….., seldom constructive. I would agree that on the surface, multiple replacements with the same result does not make sense, but this is based on what little we know on this forum. The people spending all the money designed and built these cars. The techs answering to someone and they surely know more than us. Even BMW is not going to waste this much on a customer car without thinking it is the thing to do. For the "don't make payments, etc" crowd, keep in mind that the dealer is providing a loaner that I assume is free of charge. I understand that it is frustrating, and getting some consideration for the trouble is not unreasonable, but being reasonable, as you have is your best course. First, let them fix your car. When it is fixed, it is an incredible car. Keep us posted and good luck. John
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02-21-2013, 10:58 AM	#37
JoM3z Lieutenant 56 Rep 496 Posts Drives: 2023 CP XDrive G82 M4 - SSG Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mars iTrader: (1) Garage List 2023 BMW M4 CP xDrive [0.00]	Patience is a virtue, but don't be taken for a sucker. 4 times replacing your transmission is unheard of. At this point I would Scream LEMON and have them replace the car. Granted circumstances are different with each situation, but they had this car for far too long and it's not like it is garaged and kept clean. Time for being nice is over, demand some resolution in the next month or weeks...
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02-21-2013, 11:35 AM	#41
dmw16 Captain 70 Rep 954 Posts Drives: 2005 ///M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Maryland iTrader: (1)	This is nuts. OP is truly a patient man. I'd have bought an RV and setup shop in the dealer's parking lot by now.
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