BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
BPM
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-29-2013, 12:46 AM   #45
Hujan
Brigadier General
Hujan's Avatar
United_States
567
Rep
3,742
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (16)

OP: What dealership did you deal with?

I must say, I've been pretty disappointed with my service experiences at BWM of Vista and BMW of El Cajon.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 08:36 AM   #46
W///
Lieutenant General
W///'s Avatar
7436
Rep
12,293
Posts

Drives: F82GTS, E36/E92M3, Z4M
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxblackedo View Post
No, didn't think to research things about my car until after my engine seized. Had I known the problems with the car I would have taken a sample... actually no.. I would have inspected/replaced the rod bearings every 25,000 miles.
You said you heard the engine ticking. How loud was it?

Just trying to understand, because you said you only looked it up AFTER the engine blew up. When you heard the tick, you didn't read about it before?
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT
08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT
07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT
99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 08:43 AM   #47
Yellow Snow
First Lieutenant
United Kingdom
7
Rep
311
Posts

Drives: 335d Coupe. Stock no more!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxblackedo View Post
No, didn't think to research things about my car until after my engine seized. Had I known the problems with the car I would have taken a sample... actually no.. I would have inspected/replaced the rod bearings every 25,000 miles.
So have you had it confirmed by BMW what the problem actually was?
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 08:47 AM   #48
AlteredBe4st
First Pride
AlteredBe4st's Avatar
110
Rep
1,557
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut..

iTrader: (8)

Glad you were able to resolve the issue and end up with a check, good luck with the GTR as I would do the same.
__________________
Modded M4
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 04:34 PM   #49
tuxblackedo
New Member
15
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW e92 m3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: san diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
OP: What dealership did you deal with?

I must say, I've been pretty disappointed with my service experiences at BWM of Vista and BMW of El Cajon.
BMW San Diego, the SA told me there to dive it until it breaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
You said you heard the engine ticking. How loud was it?

Just trying to understand, because you said you only looked it up AFTER the engine blew up. When you heard the tick, you didn't read about it before?
Not very loud ticking. When I heard the tick I brought it in and got told by my SA that it was normal. I don't hang out on the forums as much as you guys do, I just bring it to the dealer and say "this doesn't sound right". At the time I felt kind of embarrassed to bring it in, felt like I was being a complainer-type customer. Turns out I didn't complain enough, since it was the sign on a dying engine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Snow View Post
So have you had it confirmed by BMW what the problem actually was?
All they confirmed that the engine seized and that there were metal shavings in the oil filter. BMW wanted to charge me money for diagnostics and a teardown, but I didn't pay it. I pretty much think it had to do with rod bearings because that seems like the common theme here on the forums.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 04:37 PM   #50
MWM3
Banned
41
Rep
206
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

wow...glad you were able to get this resolved.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 05:59 PM   #51
G80indy
Save the Manuals
G80indy's Avatar
United_States
1713
Rep
2,937
Posts

Drives: Z3, E46, G80
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Indy

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus
BMW really doesn't gain anything by making the bearing that tight. So they're not really gaining anything by making an engine that'll blow up by 100,000 miles.


.
The true fallout is those ridiculous oil change intervals at ~10-15k miles!
That is the "poor design" in all of this.
I firmly believe that OCIs 3-5k mitigate this....
__________________
2023 G80 6MT, CCBs
2002 330i Dinan, 5MT
2000 Z3 Conforti, 5MT
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 06:59 PM   #52
aussiem3
Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
270
Rep
2,663
Posts

Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
You're one lucky guy to walk away making money than spending money. This bearing thing is like cancer. By the time it comes to a head it's full blown and too late. Kaput. Bang.

I think people who are way out of warranty, the best thing to do is to drive the car hard and enjoy it, rather than worry about it. If the bearings are bad regardless of the way you drive, it will blow up at some time in the future.
__________________
F86 X6///
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 09:49 PM   #53
gatorfast
Major General
gatorfast's Avatar
United_States
4969
Rep
6,854
Posts

Drives: 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoFla

iTrader: (4)

Without someone performing an engine "autopsy" I don't see how everyone can assume this is bearing failure.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 03:25 AM   #54
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1119
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Good for you man,I'm glad you got paid !
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 06:37 AM   #55
StealYourFace
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
260
Rep
1,794
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M 6mt, E36 M3
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Shakedown Street, Buffalo NY

iTrader: (1)

Number one, Good for you for not accepting the deep effing the dealership and the company were willing to give you. If the dealership wasn't so short sighted and actually fought for you rather than just telling you this thing was on you, I have a feeling they would still have a customer. Not just a customer, but a raving fan. You mentioned that you had an ext warranty, did the dealer bother to tell you why they wouldn't cover this? (Sorry if I missed it).
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 07:40 AM   #56
W///
Lieutenant General
W///'s Avatar
7436
Rep
12,293
Posts

Drives: F82GTS, E36/E92M3, Z4M
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
You're one lucky guy to walk away making money than spending money. This bearing thing is like cancer. By the time it comes to a head it's full blown and too late. Kaput. Bang.

I think people who are way out of warranty, the best thing to do is to drive the car hard and enjoy it, rather than worry about it. If the bearings are bad regardless of the way you drive, it will blow up at some time in the future.
That's such a blanket statement. I'm not denying that these rod bearings are troublesome, but to say that these engines are 100% going to fail is just not true.
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT
08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT
07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT
99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 08:34 AM   #57
lsmkr01
Lieutenant Colonel
lsmkr01's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
1,629
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
That's such a blanket statement. I'm not denying that these rod bearings are troublesome, but to say that these engines are 100% going to fail is just not true.
I think he was referring to the fact that no engine lives forever and will eventually break. So far it seems no S65 has be reported to have over 150k miles or more.

To be on the safe side I'd be tempted into getting my crank journals properly machined sometime after the 75k mile mark. Afterwards the engines will be good for 100+k miles of worry free pleasure. Kawasaki is local and could set us up with a quality shop that knows exactly whats needed. I'm about to hit 30k today on my lunch break.... I almost tear up when I think how fast the miles are flying buy. Seams like just yesterday I just picked her up and traveled my first mile.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 01:30 PM   #58
Yellow Snow
First Lieutenant
United Kingdom
7
Rep
311
Posts

Drives: 335d Coupe. Stock no more!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsmkr01 View Post
I think he was referring to the fact that no engine lives forever and will eventually break. So far it seems no S65 has be reported to have over 150k miles or more.

To be on the safe side I'd be tempted into getting my crank journals properly machined sometime after the 75k mile mark. Afterwards the engines will be good for 100+k miles of worry free pleasure. Kawasaki is local and could set us up with a quality shop that knows exactly whats needed. I'm about to hit 30k today on my lunch break.... I almost tear up when I think how fast the miles are flying buy. Seams like just yesterday I just picked her up and traveled my first mile.
How do you actually know that grinding a thou off the crank will make any difference at all. The BMW M engineers know a thing or two about cutting edge engine design.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 01:48 PM   #59
lsmkr01
Lieutenant Colonel
lsmkr01's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
1,629
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Snow View Post
How do you actually know that grinding a thou off the crank will make any difference at all. The BMW M engineers know a thing or two about cutting edge engine design.
This blind faith you have in BMW is something not everyone shares. There are clearance margins that are common knowledge in race engine building that were violated here. Look at Regular Guys thread and all the evidence he has laid out. He is one of many that have come up in the last few years showing the causes to S65/S85 engine failures due to bearing clearance causing oil starvation during cold starts. The evidence is there, what you do with it is up to you.

Last edited by lsmkr01; 09-30-2013 at 02:33 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 02:11 PM   #60
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
292
Rep
2,646
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Snow View Post
How do you actually know that grinding a thou off the crank will make any difference at all. The BMW M engineers know a thing or two about cutting edge engine design.
They may have cutting edge engine design, but I personally don't think that they have their crank cutting figured out

The S54/S85/S65 proves that they have issues setting clearances! I love BMW too but in this instance they screwed up royally, even more so by not admitting to a mistake and fixing the clearance issues after they first surfaced in the S54!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 02:13 PM   #61
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
292
Rep
2,646
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsmkr01 View Post
This blind faith you have in BMW is something not everyone shares. There are clearance margins that are common knowledge in race engine building that were violated here. Look at Regular Guys thread and all the evidence he has laid out. He is one of many that have come up in the last few years showing the causes to S65/S85 engine failures due to bearing clearance cause oil starvation during cold starts. The evidence is there, what you do with it is up to you.
Not only cold starts, the clearances are too tight for operating temperature too!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 02:32 PM   #62
lsmkr01
Lieutenant Colonel
lsmkr01's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
1,629
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Not only cold starts, the clearances are too tight for operating temperature too!
I was just mentioning the most vulnerable time but thanks for the added information.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 06:57 PM   #63
aussiem3
Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
270
Rep
2,663
Posts

Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
That's such a blanket statement. I'm not denying that these rod bearings are troublesome, but to say that these engines are 100% going to fail is just not true.
I am not saying all engines are going to fail. But there is no way to know at an early stage unless you have an exploratory engine diagnosis (i.e. open the engine and have a physical inspection). You will be extremely lucky to catch it early but most often it's too late. How many of the blown engines showed obvious sign of bearing deterioration at early stages?
__________________
F86 X6///
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 08:37 PM   #64
tuxblackedo
New Member
15
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW e92 m3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: san diego

iTrader: (0)

I feel kind of shitty without a nice fast sports car.

All I can recommend to you guys whose M3's novelty hasn't worn off yet: get your rod bearings inspected and replaced.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 09:34 PM   #65
regular guy
Lieutenant Colonel
427
Rep
1,947
Posts

Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Without someone performing an engine "autopsy" I don't see how everyone can assume this is bearing failure.
Correct...but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Snow View Post
That's quite a sweeping statement! Do you have any hard evidence that a bearing seized or is it just a guess?

There are multiple reasons that an engine can seize. Not impossible that it's a bearing but 100%? Surely not.
There are many forms of engine failure, but dare I say very few of them actually seize the motor with the wheels locking up as the OP described. Probably the #1 cause of that type of seizure the OP described is rod bearing failure, followed by super heated rod big end, followed by the rod big end welding itself to the crank journal, followed by an instantaneous engine seizure, followed by lots of broken parts and "air ventilation holes" in the block.

Same exact thing happened to a local buddy's S65/M3 just last week. Driving fast, wheels skid out from underneath as his motor seized. Car gets towed home, he looks underneath and finds pieces of two connecting rods and pistons inside the oil pan. If I get his permissions, I will post photos. Two rods failed, and it's very clear from the pieces that the big end of the connecting rods were superheated and welded themselves to the crankshaft -- which is what caused the instant seizure and skid out of control.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 10:03 PM   #66
StealYourFace
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
260
Rep
1,794
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M 6mt, E36 M3
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Shakedown Street, Buffalo NY

iTrader: (1)

Imagine tracking out of a corner, full throttle, and the motor lets go and the rear wheels lock, and there are cars behind you.
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST