The Cold S65 - How to warm it up, Properly

[Petros]

Originally Posted by squartus

Oh I read just fine, telling half of the above posters that you hate them for something silly is indeed an insult. I should not have to spell that out for you in such a manner.

But enouf of this, back on topic.

I hate you. Not an insult. Just a statement of fact.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I don't think there is anything wrong with letting your engine idle for a short while especially in a cold environment. The recommendation not to let your car idle on start up is most likely an anti pollution recommendation rather than an anti wear one.
The engine manufacturers start up procedure for the piston engined aircraft I worked on was to idle the engine until it reached a particular oil temp before exercising the prop to circulate the oil and no one is more particular about wear and safety than the aircraft industry.
Myself, for my garaged car, I drive off pretty much straight away but I keep the revs less than 2.5k until the oil temp moves off the stop...no high rpm until its at normal running temp.
I think the rev counter that indicates that you can run 6k rpm on cold oil is just plain idiotic...there are no doubt plenty owners who think this means they can do just that and hence the high bearing wear rate.

"I think of the engine as a pump in this case, and increasing RPMs affect oil pressure, is this accurate?"
This bit is not totally correct in the sense that the S65 has a volume controlled oil pump with an oil pressure relief valve set to ~90 psi....ie the pump has a flow rate target not a pressure target. You put in thinner oil you will get the same flow rate but a lower pressure.

The high redline is needed for safety. Sometimes you need to floor it to get out of the way and avoid an accident

[pbonsalb]

When it was 10 below 0F a few days ago, I let the car idle for 1-2 minutes before driving, but that was colder than usual. Normally, on the first cold start of the day, I let it idle for maybe 10 seconds. If it is around 0-10F, I will idle 30-60 seconds if I have time. I go very easy on the throttle and rpm until the oil temp is up high enough that the moving redline is fully advanced.

[///mawana]

Sometimes I just drive off, sometimes wait for the cold-start to cycle through. Afterwards, I just keep it under 3k until I get an oil reading. I use 0w-40.

[gobuffs]

A little different perspective as I have an S65 in a non E9x race car. I try to adhere to this procedure as much as I can.

I have complete control over the fuel pump. I engage the starter until I have at least a blip on the mechanical oil pressure gauge. Many time time I try to wait until it hits 20psi. Then I turn on the fuel pump and start. I tried it once where I turned on the fuel pump first and start the car and it takes a good nearly 3 seconds for oil pressure to hit the gauge. Granted the oil pressure sensor is remote mounted and plumbed into the were the idiot light sensor is mounted stock.

I let it idle in the paddock as long as I can. Don't have the opportunity to drive slowly around. I don't hammer it until the oil is at least 140. I try to short shift the first lap to get more temp than that but that isn't always possible.

Will be interesting to see what the WPC treated stock bearings with ARP bolts look after some time.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by gobuffs

I tried it once where I turned on the fuel pump first and start the car and it takes a good nearly 3 seconds for oil pressure to hit the gauge. .

Wow! 3 seconds is an eternity without oil flow! Do you have the stock oiling system or are you running a dry sump?

[gobuffs]

Stock. However that is the tippy top of the engine. Oil should get to bearing before I see pressure on gauge. Would figure bearing psi is double what I see on gauge (that is a complete guess).

[SilentAttack]

I start the car bounce it off the rev limiter for a couple mins then pull off. Nice and warm n ready to roar

[mxa121]

Originally Posted by Jamaro

You're over-complicating this.

Start it up, wait for cold cycle to end, drive away keeping rpms low until fully warm.

It is not over-complicating. The OP is to understand how the system functions from a technical standpoint. Yes, what you described is a simple procedure, but I would like to understand on a technical level why it is optimal.

Originally Posted by rjd598

Pretty sure in the manual it says not let idle. Could be wrong someone please correct me if I am.

You are correct, the manual states to start driving immediately, although most with an S65 can attest that it is temperamental during cold start cycle.

[mxa121]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I don't think there is anything wrong with letting your engine idle for a short while especially in a cold environment. The recommendation not to let your car idle on start up is most likely an anti pollution recommendation rather than an anti wear one.
The engine manufacturers start up procedure for the piston engined aircraft I worked on was to idle the engine until it reached a particular oil temp before exercising the prop to circulate the oil and no one is more particular about wear and safety than the aircraft industry.
Myself, for my garaged car, I drive off pretty much straight away but I keep the revs less than 2.5k until the oil temp moves off the stop...no high rpm until its at normal running temp.
I think the rev counter that indicates that you can run 6k rpm on cold oil is just plain idiotic...there are no doubt plenty owners who think this means they can do just that and hence the high bearing wear rate.

"I think of the engine as a pump in this case, and increasing RPMs affect oil pressure, is this accurate?"
This bit is not totally correct in the sense that the S65 has a volume controlled oil pump with an oil pressure relief valve set to ~90 psi....ie the pump has a flow rate target not a pressure target. You put in thinner oil you will get the same flow rate but a lower pressure.

Thank you for addressing my 'pump' question. So does this dispel the idea that RPMs ''higher'' than 3k may be needed to properly lubricate the deep crevices of the engine while cold?

What is the affect of higher RPMs on cold oil/engine?
Ignoring the oil, I assume the metal components in the engine have not expanded properly and may cause improper fitments that are exposed in higher RPM ranges, causing damage to each other. This seems to me the most likely reason to keep RPMs as low as possible.
For oil, it's viscosity is very different from cold to hot, regardless of it's dual weight rating. This makes it harder to 'pump' and more resistant to flowing into the tight areas.
-all speculation on my end-

[Amirsm3]

Originally Posted by Jamaro

You're over-complicating this.

Start it up, wait for cold cycle to end, drive away keeping rpms low until fully warm.

This. There isn't any magic involved.

[Amirsm3]

Originally Posted by SilentAttack

I start the car bounce it off the rev limiter for a couple mins then pull off. Nice and warm n ready to roar

[phrozen06]

Originally Posted by Jamaro

You're over-complicating this.

Start it up, wait for cold cycle to end, drive away keeping rpms low until fully warm.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

This bit is not totally correct in the sense that the S65 has a volume controlled oil pump with an oil pressure relief valve set to ~90 psi....ie the pump has a flow rate target not a pressure target. You put in thinner oil you will get the same flow rate but a lower pressure.

The pump flow is controlled by pressure. When the pressure target is reached pump volume is reduced by the compensator. That is how variable displacement pumps work.

[ZIPNBYE]

Wolverine 250W oil pan heater.
Start car, let idle down, and drive below 3kRPM until temp shows on the oil gauge as near-normal.

I had a P3 gauge in my 2011 1M, and simply using the oil pan heater, could get the water temp to read near 0degC when the air temp was -20degC, thus the oil should have been above freezing. Granted, I was using Mobil-1 0W40 in the 1M, year-round (top of BMW's approved alternate oil list for the N54 engine), and using 10W60 in the M3 while in winter does give me cause for concern, but so far, the car starts amazingly well, idles down quickly, and just burbles along while driving. Oil temps come up quite quickly, despite the fact the car has 9-1/2 litres of it to heat up.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Jamaro

You're over-complicating this.

Start it up, wait for cold cycle to end, drive away keeping rpms low until fully warm.

This this the right way.

[mxa121]

Originally Posted by ZIPNBYE

Wolverine 250W oil pan heater.
Start car, let idle down, and drive below 3kRPM until temp shows on the oil gauge as near-normal.
.
.

Why 3k?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by mxa121

Why 3k?

About the ultimate warm up procedure....

Start by warming the engine up to a temperature of 80°C by circulating hot coolant through the engine and radiators !
Thinking on a F1 engine (previous NA engine) that can rev up to a maximum of 18,000 rpm.
Unlike our everyday road cars, an F1 engine cannot be started from cold due to the very tight bearing and piston-to-bore clearances , and is estimated to be around 800 horsepower !
That engine would blown at start up without this procedure !
DTM engines have the same warm up procedure and would be also the ultimate warm up procedure for our stock S65 thinking about blown S65's and all the bearing troubles .
Only we need the right connectors on the right place.....
Think with this warm up procedure our S65 would last forever !
Here is more => http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-new...1?artid=157706

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Free rev for 15 minutes. Keep between 6-8k.

Thats how you roll baby!!

[ZIPNBYE]

Originally Posted by mxa121

Why 3k?

Lower rpm and load warms up an engine.

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

About the ultimate warm up procedure....

Start by warming the engine up to a temperature of 80°C by circulating hot coolant through the engine and radiators !
Thinking on a F1 engine (previous NA engine) that can rev up to a maximum of 18,000 rpm.
Unlike our everyday road cars, an F1 engine cannot be started from cold due to the very tight bearing and piston-to-bore clearances , and is estimated to be around 800 horsepower !
That engine would blown at start up without this procedure !
DTM engines have the same warm up procedure and would be also the ultimate warm up procedure for our stock S65 thinking about blown S65's and all the bearing troubles .
Only we need the right connectors on the right place.....
Think with this warm up procedure our S65 would last forever !
Here is more => http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-new...1?artid=157706

[u2b]AIt20DAVbwI#t[/u2b]

That is cool!! Can we add a hack to system (or fuse #39) so we can crank the car and build up oil pressure before we let electricity through to the coil and fuel system?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by e92zero

That is cool!! Can we add a hack to system (or fuse #39) so we can crank the car and build up oil pressure before we let electricity through to the coil and fuel system?

Just add a video on my post above , and I just wanted to say if we could have only a system to pre warm up our S65 engine block .
For example a engine block heater with a timer system during night , it could save us from a lot of bearing trouble , why not ?
Injection mold machines use it too to pre warm up the mould and to keep the mold to the right temperature in the cool cycle .

Pic of tool temp...