best way to 'hide' muffler....

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by Remus

Swamp2:
According to REMUS Austria, the exhaust design allows for more cooling of the differential as tested in their R&D department. The tests results cannot be shown to the public. Furthermore, the canisters are packed with heat resistant insulation wool to prevent overheating the differential.

They did not test aerodynamics because REMUS does not have a wind tunnel.

How do they know if it allows for more cooling on the differential if they did no aero testing?
Sounds like the response was more of a theory than hard fact.
Perhaps you could get them to elaborate on just what kind of tests they did.

[CampioniShop]

REMUS Austria has the technology to test heat emissions under load from the exhaust systems, here is an example :

Motorcycle example :

[Epacy]

Thanks. So that means they were able to take the heat signature from the differential before the removal of the stock exhaust system then again after the installtion of the Remus system?
I assume this is a stationary test and not under load?

[CampioniShop]

This is both stationary and under load on the dyno. The sound chamber has roller type dynos.

They will not release the tests, however they confirmed to us the heat signature was cooler on the differential with the REMUS sport system than OEM.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by Remus

This is both stationary and under load on the dyno. The sound chamber has roller type dynos.

They will not release the tests, however they confirmed to us the heat signature was cooler on the differential with the REMUS sport system than OEM.

Very interesting and good to hear. Thanks for clearing that up. I retract my previous statement about theory.

Did they provide reasoning why they won't release the data from the tests? I think that would be a very nice selling point.

[CampioniShop]

REMUS is one of the if the the one and only company that has properly invested into R&D materials such as the industry first acoustic chamber, heat signature, etc. Releasing those tests to the public leaves REMUS wondering about what other companies could do with those tests, it's all about competition.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Very interesting and good to hear. Thanks for clearing that up. I retract my previous statement about theory.

Well, actually, you shouldn't retract your statement. What's more relevant is heat transfer during different driving conditions with real flow under the car, not on a dyno. They are inferring that sticking the car on a dyno for a limited time and not seeing increased temperatures means everything will be fine. Not necessarily true. Try instrumenting the car and driving it hard on the track for a couple of hours and see what happens. Yes, one can argue that if temperatures for the aftermarket system are not higher than stock in a static scenario under load for a limited period of time, they are unlikely to be higher in a dynamic scenario since flow can only improve heat transfer, but that doesn't mean a whole lot as it's not that simple. The real question is around air flow for the stock vs. aftermarket exhaust during sustained demanding real-life driving situations and how that affects cooling. Based on what has been shared, Remus has not done anything to address that more relevant question. Having said all this, I really don't think replacing the original muffler with something like what Remus developed will cause any problems because of the geometry. But that's just an opinion, and I wouldn't bet on it. I'd be more concerned with products that have different designs.

Also, this is only about cooling issues. The stock system might indeed result in better air flow (not exhaust flow) from a purely aerodynamics perspective.

[CampioniShop]

We agree with what you said. We cannot test air flow precisely and thus cannot make any statement regarding it, we can only speculate based on our heat emission tests, something that is still unique to REMUS as of yet.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Remus

We agree with what you said. We cannot test air flow precisely and thus cannot make any statement regarding it, we can only speculate based on our heat emission tests, something that is still unique to REMUS as of yet.

I am not trying to shoot down your product by the way. I appreciate you taking the time to address these questions. I am considering installing an aftermarket exhaust system on my car, mainly for the sound. I would like to hear how your product sounds in person. Thanks.

[Johndoe]

Originally Posted by Qship

Am I the only one that notices that your car is not an M3? Sorry...

??? first that is not MY car and secondly, hold your breath, late breaking news: M3 is now being offered in a Sedan version as well.....

[Blip Bavarian]

You can paint it with BBQ grill paint. It sounds ghetto i know. But it leaves a nice matte black finish and is very heat resistant.

If you remove the exhaust, and tape well, it can be a very good and cheap option.

[gadget]

Originally Posted by Blip Bavarian

You can paint it with BBQ grill paint. It sounds ghetto i know. But it leaves a nice matte black finish and is very heat resistant.

If you remove the exhaust, and tape well, it can be a very good and cheap option.

What about heat dissipation issues etc. I agree that in theory this a great cheap fix that doesnt create other issues such a the differential temp as discussed above.

Anyone have technical data to demonstrate this is a bad idea? If not does anyone want to volunteer to do this for thier car

[GewoW]

I would readily expect there to be a problem at high speeds for the exhaust. The ends of each muffler are so sharp, that I would expect heavy wind deflection and pushing of the muffler up and out at higher speeds. Notice all exhaust choices have rounded mufflers.

I do believe a wind-tunnel check would be best, or else it may seriously cause some problems to people at high speeds. That little edge may make all the difference.

P.S. I am assuming that the edge is sharp towards the middle of the car as it is on the outside. If not, then disregard the post.

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by gadget

What about heat dissipation issues etc. I agree that in theory this a great cheap fix that doesnt create other issues such a the differential temp as discussed above.

Anyone have technical data to demonstrate this is a bad idea? If not does anyone want to volunteer to do this for thier car

I have no technical data, but I sorta doubt its an issue. My plan is to paint ONLY the portion you see from the back. There is no need to paint the entire thing. So basicaly I will paint the trailing edge. I will not be painting the top, bottom, front, or sides

[WCH]

Originally Posted by rvacha

I have no technical data, but I sorta doubt its an issue. My plan is to paint ONLY the portion you see from the back. There is no need to paint the entire thing. So basicaly I will paint the trailing edge. I will not be painting the top, bottom, front, or sides

I was thinking about this as well. If you do it, please post pics.

[Sick Speed]

I have a 2004 E46 M3 with the DINAN exhaust and muffler and it WAS as visible as the new M3 muffler.

Solution: grill (as in what you BBQ on) paint which is specifically designed for heat and it will make it invisible. Yes...invisible. I never notice my muffler now. From the rear now all you see are the quad pipes. It has been painted this way now for 4 years with over 60K miles and zero issues ever.

Lift the car...tape off overspray areas and paint. You can pick up a can at any Home Depot. I used flat black and like I said...it is literally invisible. Remember if light cannot reflect off of it you can't see it.

[GewoW]

^^^I still wouldn't do that.

[MDCTFTW]

Originally Posted by Sick Speed

I have a 2004 E46 M3 with the DINAN exhaust and muffler and it WAS as visible as the new M3 muffler.

Solution: grill (as in what you BBQ on) paint which is specifically designed for heat and it will make it invisible. Yes...invisible. I never notice my muffler now. From the rear now all you see are the quad pipes. It has been painted this way now for 4 years with over 60K miles and zero issues ever.

Lift the car...tape off overspray areas and paint. You can pick up a can at any Home Depot. I used flat black and like I said...it is literally invisible. Remember if light cannot reflect off of it you can't see it.

Pics?

[swamp2]

Great thread guys. I posted a decent question/concern and lost track of all the good responses. To the Remus guy: There are a lot of engineers and scientists folks here on this forum, you should not try to BS us! Although a wind tunnel would be the ideal configuration for testing, you could do almost as well on a track with some thermocouples and a simple data acquisition system. Really a few hundred dollars! Tell the boys in Austria to invest and "step it up". It does sound like Remus is more of a real engineering based company as opposed to most exhaust companies that are as lucid described "tinker-ers". However, when the exhaust, diff. and diffuser are all so intimately intertwined care must be given to thermal issues. Most designs simply do not have these components so intertwined

Last but not least on the steel wool issue: You can't fool us in to believing that this material in your (or any )muffler product is to keep the unit from heating nearby components. -1 on that, a big -1.

[Blip Bavarian]

Originally Posted by Qship

Holding my breath. Seeing as my company is located in Ismaning, I get to see all the duck tape and plastic bag cars nipping about. (drop in with Google Earth to the interesting looking track next door) I can spot a new model simply because it has non-standard lines, and I love to see it when they graduate to the models with only the BMW circle covered.

I have only a handfull of posts, but check the location of your comment target.

Whatever the hell that thing is it is in the USA not sporting Munich tags.

Likely it is a poser who Frankensteined some sporty pipes onto his 3. The cheaper version are the folks that stick M3 onto their cars. Fools girls I suppose. Go speed racer go.

[Johndoe]

Originally Posted by Sick Speed

I have a 2004 E46 M3 with the DINAN exhaust and muffler and it WAS as visible as the new M3 muffler.

Solution: grill (as in what you BBQ on) paint which is specifically designed for heat and it will make it invisible. Yes...invisible. I never notice my muffler now. From the rear now all you see are the quad pipes. It has been painted this way now for 4 years with over 60K miles and zero issues ever.

Lift the car...tape off overspray areas and paint. You can pick up a can at any Home Depot. I used flat black and like I said...it is literally invisible. Remember if light cannot reflect off of it you can't see it.

can you provide more info/ pics on this....also did you paint the whole muffler or just the front part that is visible

[gadget]

Originally Posted by Johndoe

can you provide more info/ pics on this....also did you paint the whole muffler or just the front part that is visible

Regarding post using Grill / BBQ paint.

I know this is not ideal, bit i think it is a good cheap fix. I, like John Doe above, would like some additional data on this subject. Who else has done this. etc.....